Biblical sufficiency vs Modern Questions?

[Al Touthentop]

Not if its organic.. Animal fat is beneficial for male hormones when its as God created the animal to be. Try Google - Animal fat is beneficial for male hormones.

And it was given by God as was marijuana and tobacco.

 

[GenemZ]

And it was given by God as was marijuana and tobacco.

As was arsenic, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Yummy!

And, with some.. given common sense.

 

[DNB]

The point is, they are not a sin in themselves. That is all I care about. What God thinks. I belong to Him, and Him only. And certainly not how the world sins and takes what is allowed to the extreme and brings it to the level of a sin. Let the perishing pay taxes.

But they are a sin in themselves? At least, for sure marijuana & sex outside of marriage. And the others, if not with the intent of intoxication. I rebuked you because you specifically said, legalize marijuana, and in moderation that it's ok. Marijuana inebriates immediately, one cannot use it to any degree without succumbing to its intoxication. Alcohol, that's not the case, but there's an extremely fine line, and its intoxication appears to be 10x more debilitating than marijuana. So they're both inappropriate for anyone, especially a Christian. Not to mention, you've seen the pervasive affects of alcoholism throughout the world, and throughout the centuries. It's been a plague since day one.
Why would you be so complacent or permissive towards such undeniable vices?

 

[GenemZ]

What do you make of 1 Corinthians 3:17?
Is not smoking a form of defiling the temple?
Can you honestly say that smoking is good for the body?
Is it not common knowledge that people know smoking is bad for them?
Are you unaware of this?

Defiling the temple had to do with desiring false doctrines. Not food.

According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise
master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it.
But each man must be careful how he builds on it. (not with what he
eats, drinks, etc) For no man can lay a foundation other than the one
which is laid, which is Jesus Christ ." 1 Cor 3:10-11​

It had to do with teachers and how we build upon our foundation (salvation in Christ is that foundation).

If we build by seeking and accepting sound doctrinal teachings (gold,silver, and precious stones)? We will not defile the Temple in which the Spirit indwells. It has nothing to do with smoking/drinking in itself.

If anyone teaches false doctrine? And believers build upon that a false sense of faith? That is teacher is defiling the temple of the Holy Spirit.

That would mean the Holy Spirit is living inside a faulty temple. What is thought by the believer (because of false understanding) defiles the temple.. Yet, as the Spirit remains grieved and quenched inside until the day that believer dies and goes to heaven.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Defiling the temple had to do with desiring false doctrines. Not food.

According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise
master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it.
But each man must be careful how he builds on it. (not with what he
eats, drinks, etc) For no man can lay a foundation other than the one
which is laid, which is Jesus Christ ." 1 Cor 3:10-11​

It had to do with teachers and how we build upon our foundation (salvation in Christ is that foundation).

If we build by seeking and accepting sound doctrinal teachings (gold,silver, and precious stones)? We will not defile the Temple in which the Spirit indwells. It has nothing to do with smoking/drinking in itself.

If anyone teaches false doctrine? And believers build upon that a false sense of faith? That is teacher is defiling the temple of the Holy Spirit.

That would mean the Holy Spirit is living inside a faulty temple. What is thought by the believer (because of false understanding) defiles the temple.. Yet, as the Spirit remains grieved and quenched inside until the day that believer dies and goes to heaven.

Ephesians 2:19-20 says,

"Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone;"

This means Paul planted the seed of the Word (The gospel), and Apollos watered the seed of the Word (teachings of Christ). The Corinthians are the work of Paul, and Apollos, but they built upon the foundation, which is Christ.

Seeing the Corinthians are justifying the sins of envy, strife, and divisions in 1 Corinthians 3:3, they are defiling their temples and they will be destroyed, and these Corinthians (who are the works of Paul and Apollos) will be like wood, hay, and straw who will be burned up because they are not repenting yet at this point in time. The Corinthians who make up God's building will be destroyed, but Paul and Apollos who helped to lay the foundation of Christ by spreading the gospel and layng forth Christ's teachings will be saved through fire (although the Corinthians will be burned up if they don't repent of these sins). Again, Galatians 5:19-21 lists the sins of envy and strife, and Paul says that they which do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Paul says it in several ways that a believer will not make it if they sin. Jesus said the same thing (Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:32) (Matthew 25:31-46). John also taught the same thing (1 John 3:15) (Revelation 21:8). For God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world. The popular free grace teachers of today really do not believe that. Then again, we are living in the last days where men have a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof (2 Timothy 3:1-9).

It is getting closer and closer to being like the days of Noah where men's thoughts are evil continually. Jesus will not save those who will want to remain wicked. Salvation does not work like that (See Jude 1:4). Proverbs 28:13 says whoever confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.

 

[CharismaticLady]

But they are a sin in themselves? At least, for sure marijuana & sex outside of marriage. And the others, if not with the intent of intoxication. I rebuked you because you specifically said, legalize marijuana, and in moderation that it's ok. Marijuana inebriates immediately, one cannot use it to any degree without succumbing to its intoxication. Alcohol, that's not the case, but there's an extremely fine line, and its intoxication appears to be 10x more debilitating than marijuana. So they're both inappropriate for anyone, especially a Christian. Not to mention, you've seen the pervasive affects of alcoholism throughout the world, and throughout the centuries. It's been a plague since day one.
Why would you be so complacent or permissive towards such undeniable vices?

If it was leagalized, do you think more people would use it? Is that what you are worried about? Personally, I would never smoke a cigarette, because I have sense. I'm not a follower, I'm a leader. I would never smoke dope either for the same reason. And you are right, a sip of alcohol has little effect, and I wouldn't ever get drunk. Besides, Jesus turned water into fermented wine.

But the fact is this country is in financial trouble, so seeing as so many smoke weed anyway, why shouldn't they tax the daylights out of it like they do alcohol? Prescription drugs kill more people than weed ever will. If it was legal and sold in stores to adults, it wouldn't be sold on street corners to kids.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I can agree with most of this but I will say that the dangers of vaping are a bit overblown. There is danger from vaping processed oils and "juices" and all that that is mostly caused by thickening agents that manufacturers add in order to get "impressive" looking clouds of vapor (vitamin E acetate oil and the like). When you vape just the flowers of the plant, the vapor is thin and wispy. There is no coughing or irritation, no decrease in oxygen saturation of the blood that would be indicative of lung damage, etc. It is also the most effective way to dose for moderation as the effects are near instant, so you can stop yourself before getting intoxicated a lot easier, eating can work but dosing is difficult to get right, it's easy to get too much when eating. So I use vaporization to do at least less harm than smoking, but be easier to judge when to stop, and I use the flowers of the plant as they are naturally rather than something processed by man because I feel it is safer, and it is truer to God's creation.

10/21/2019 UPDATE: Recent illnesses have been associated with use of e-cigarettes (vaping). Since the specific causes of these lung injury cases are not yet known, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommends refraining from all vaping products. Because THC products appear to be implicated in many if not most of these vaping-related lung injuries, nobody should consume marijuana products by vaping.

Source:
Vaporizers Are Not A Safe Way To Smoke Marijuana

Many people think vaping is less harmful than smoking. While it’s true that e-cigarette aerosol doesn’t include all the contaminants in tobacco smoke, it still isn’t safe. Here are just a few of the reasons why:

• Most e-cigarettes deliver nicotine, which is highly addictive and can harm the developing brains of teens, kids and fetuses in women who vape while pregnant. Some types expose users to even more nicotine than traditional cigarettes.
• In addition to nicotine, e-cigarette vapor includes potentially harmful substances such as diacetyl (a chemical linked to a serious lung disease), cancer-causing chemicals, volatile organic compounds (VOCs), and heavy metals such as nickel, tin, and lead. Users breathe in these toxic contaminants, and non-users nearby risk secondhand exposure.
• The liquid used in e-cigarettes can be dangerous, even apart from its intended use. Children and adults have been poisoned by swallowing, breathing or absorbing the liquid through their skin or eyes.
• E-cigarettes have been linked to thousands of cases of serious lung injury, some resulting in death. While the exact cause is still not confirmed, the CDC recommends that people not use e-cigarettes.

E-cigarettes’ biggest threat to public health may be this: The increasing popularity of vaping may “re-normalize” smoking, which has declined for years. Reversing the hard-won gains in the global effort to curb smoking would be catastrophic. Smoking is still the leading preventable cause of death and is responsible for 480,000 American lives lost each year.

Source:
American Heart Association:
Is Vaping Better Than Smoking?

Also, vaping is more intense than smoking marijuana, and it will get you high and not sober minded. This is a direct violation of Scripture that commands Christians to be sober minded (1 Peter 1:13 KJV) (1 Peter 4:7 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:2 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:11 KJV) (Titus 1:8 KJV) (Titus 2:2 KJV) (Titus 2:4 KJV) (Titus 2:6 KJV) (Titus 2:12 KJV) (1 Thessalonians 5:6, 7, 8). For God's Word wants us to be sober minded for our adversary the devil, is a roaring lion, who walks about, seeking those whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8 KJV).

1 Corinthians 3:17 says,
"If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."

Smoking or vaping surely destroys the temple.

We associate with stoners and potheads (who worship a plant) when we smoke or vape marijuana. Yet, we are told in Scripture to abstain from all appearance of evil.

"Abstain from all appearance of evil." (1 Thessalonians 5:22).

 

[Jamdoc]

Its not only OT.

"Beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be in health,
just as your soul prospers." 3 Jn 2:2​

Will not have health if we neglect growing in grace and Truth that will transform us in our soul's prosperity. That does not mean memorizing more verses. It means being taught actual sound doctrine from a competent pastor teacher, and to keep craving for more and more. The soul prospers through knowledge and insight. The OT is also given to us when applicable. Paul and the apostles studied the OT Scriptures in order to teach many things to the church. We just no longer live under the Law found in the OT. But, even the Law holds principles that apply to the church. Paul quoted the Law to make a point of principle in guidance for the church in the fallowing passage (and many others as well)..

The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy
of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and
teaching. For Scripture says, “Do not muzzle an ox while it
is treading out the grain,”and “The worker deserves his wages .”
1 Tim 5:17-18 (Deut 25:4)​

The OT is not to be dead to us. It requires wisdom by grace to understand how it still applies.

God can use illness as a means for greater grace with some chosen individuals. But, for most of us God wants us to prosper and be in health as our soul prospers. Prospers by becoming rich in knowledge and wisdom... Sickness for some only if that is called for in His plan for our lives

grace and peace...

What I meant was the covenant itself. The old covenant was to give the land of Canaan into the hands of the Israelites and to prolong their days on earth if they lived according to the law.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If it was leagalized, do you think more people would use it? Is that what you are worried about? Personally, I would never smoke a cigarette, because I have sense. I'm not a follower, I'm a leader. I would never smoke dope either for the same reason. And you are right, a sip of alcohol has little effect, and I wouldn't ever get drunk. Besides, Jesus turned water into fermented wine.

Actually, Jesus turned water into unfermented wine.

6 Biblical Reasons Why Jesus Made Unfermented Wine (Grape Juice).

But the fact is this country is in financial trouble, so seeing as so many smoke weed anyway, why shouldn't they tax the daylights out of it like they do alcohol? Prescription drugs kill more people than weed ever will. If it was legal and sold in stores to adults, it wouldn't be sold on street corners to kids.

Actually it will make it easier for kids to gain access to it. Sort of like how kids can gain access to liquor today by the help of an adult, etc.; Besides, it would be legalizing a harmful substance (Which would be a sin according to the Bible). Again, see 1 Corinthians 3:17. A person cannot defile the temple of God without being destroyed.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I feel that I should be honest about it, and not have it hidden, but I always put it in the context that it's the for managing an illness, not for fun.

I understand, but it blurs the lines between what we know is wrong involving stoners and potheads who worship a plant.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

And it was given by God as was marijuana and tobacco.

Just because something exists in God's creation does not mean it is good for you to consume. Water hemlock is a part of God's creation, but a person wouldn't be dumb enough to eat it unless they had a death wish or something.

 

[DNB]

If it was leagalized, do you think more people would use it? Is that what you are worried about? Personally, I would never smoke a cigarette, because I have sense. I'm not a follower, I'm a leader. I would never smoke dope either for the same reason. And you are right, a sip of alcohol has little effect, and I wouldn't ever get drunk. Besides, Jesus turned water into fermented wine.

But the fact is this country is in financial trouble, so seeing as so many smoke weed anyway, why shouldn't they tax the daylights out of it like they do alcohol? Prescription drugs kill more people than weed ever will. If it was legal and sold in stores to adults, it wouldn't be sold on street corners to kids.

I don't agree with the, 'if you can't beat them, join them' approach. despite how lucrative it may be, for one party or another. Yes, if it was legalized, i believe that it sends the wrong message, and yes, promotes its usage, either in frequency or dosage, or demograph.
Being sold on the street, at least retains the stigma of illicit, and makes it less accessible and attractive.
Yes, Jesus turned water into wine, ...that one is still a very profound mystery to me, I can't even begin to comment? Because, at a wedding, it's not in moderate use, i.e. implied that the guests were already drunk. Huge mystery to me?!

So again, ultimately yes, I believe that it will, one way or another, stimulate its usage and/or send the wrong message by approving of 'partying' in general, and all that comes with it.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Is eating animal fat defiling the temple?

Eating polyunsaturated fats like like trout, and salmon, and monounsaturated fats (like avocado, and almond butter) is actually good for you. Also, most Americans I know do not eat the fat on a steak. That is more of a Brazillian thing in my experience because their steaks are a better cut and are seasoned better. The fat on certain Brazillian steaks actually melts in your mouth unlike most steaks here in America (whereby the fat of the steak is too hard to even eat). But occasionally eating the grizzle of a Brazillian steak is not going to cause lung disease. But again, focusing on something minor does not undo the many deaths, and diseases caused by smoking cigarettes. But you are free to ignore such common knowledge.

It actually does have some benefits. The main problem with smoking is the pesticides and additives put on the tobacco. Lung cancer wasn't a thing among the native tribes.

Unless one wants to bury their head in the sand, most humans on planet Earth know that tobacco is related to lung cancer. There is also the chronic coughs for those who smoke heavily, too. This can also lead to throat cancer if they are over 50 (Especially if they drink alcohol, too).

It's not mentioned at all in the bible. Anything can be harmful when one loses control. Sugar can cause enormous problems. Are you going to go around condemning people for eating too much sugar?

There is no real control over living a healthy life if you smoke. It is an addictive and expensive drug that leads to serious health problems if one continues. Focusing on the problems of sugar does not make the problems of cigarettes to go away. But yes, if somebody I cared and loved just ate sugar all the time, I would speak up and say something to them in love.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I don't agree with the, 'if you can't beat them, join them' approach. despite how lucrative it may be, for one party or another. Yes, if it was legalized, i believe that it sends the wrong message, and yes, promotes its usage, either in frequency or dosage, or demograph.
Being sold on the street, at least retains the stigma of illicit, and makes it less accessible and attractive.
Yes, Jesus turned water into wine, ...that one is still a very profound mystery to me, I can't even begin to comment? Because, at a wedding, it's not in moderate use, i.e. implied that the guests were already drunk. Huge mystery to me?!

So again, ultimately yes, I believe that it will, one way or another, stimulate its usage and/or send the wrong message by approving of 'partying' in general, and all that comes with it.

I believe Jesus made unfermented wine (non intoxicating fresh grape juice) as a part of his miracle at Cana. Here is a thread at CF, I created a while back on this (if you are interested).

6 Biblical Reasons Why Jesus Made Unfermented Wine (Grape Juice).

Here is another CF thread on the topic of wine in the Bible.

The Bible and Older Dictionaries say that 'wine" is also grape juice.

Anyways, I believe much confusion arises on this particular topic, because folks fail to realize that there are...

Three Types of Wine in the Bible:

Among the saints and various cultures, wine in Biblical times was mixed with water. This would be one of the three types of wine mentioned in the Bible. Here is a quick list of the three types of wine in the Bible:

#1. Fermented Wine (Strong in alcoholic content).
It was primarily barbarians or pagan Gentle nations who drank this kind of wine.

#2. Fermented Wine Diluted by Water (Low in alcoholic content).
This was the type of wine the Israelite drank and it was the wine that was served by the wedding organizer at Cana. Israelites would store fully fermented wine in leather pouches and or by other methods and then they would dilute it with water in order to drink it.

#3. Unfermented Wine or Freshly Squeezed Grape Juice (A non intoxicating beverage).
This was the wine that Jesus made at the wedding at Cana. It is also the wine used in the Passover.​

I believe the wine during Bible times that the Old Testament saints drank was Wine Type #2, whereby it was a wine mixed with water and was lower in alcoholic content (Which was the wine seen at the Wedding of Cana before Christ made Wine Type #3, which was non intoxicating grape juice or unfermented wine); In other words, the wines commonly drank by the OT saints was not like the strong wines of today; And Jesus made grape juice that made was considered the “best wine.” Wines of today (By wine tasters) are considered the best by their taste and not how much they can intoxicate you.

Wine mixed (diluted) with Water Verses:

Revelation 14:10 says,
“The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb”
(Contrast this with Psalms 75:8)

1 Timothy 5:23 says,
"Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities."

Proverbs 9:2 (NIV) says,
"She has prepared her meat and mixed her wine; she has also set her table."

Proverbs 23:31 - Do not look at wine when it is red.

John 19:34 - Blood and water mingled together from Christ's side; And Scripture essentially says the wine in the Lord's supper is representative of Jesus's blood (See Matthew 26:27-29).

Isaiah 1:22 CJB
“Your silver is no longer pure, your wine is watered down.”

Pure silver, which would be too soft to be durable, is mixed with 5-20% copper in an alloy known as sterling silver.

How silver is made - material, making, history, used, processing, industry.

If one were to take note: One has to mix copper in silver in order for it to be durable so as to be used. Just as one must use water in their mixture of wine to drink it more safely like an Israelite.

So the idea here is that the silver (mixed with copper) they use has become so dross (or watered down it is then cheap. Just as the wine (mixed with water) is diluted even more whereby it is cheap wine to the Israelite.

Wine could be bought and carried in an undiluted state within leather skin like bottles and then later mixed with water for use. Timothy was told to use a little wine in his water because of the infirmities in his stomach. Paul was telling him to use Biblical wine so as to resolve a medical issue.

Extra Biblical Sources on how wine was mixed with water:

2 Maccabees 15:39, Talmud, and Justin Martyr, etc.

 

[Jamdoc]

10/21/2019 UPDATE: Recent illnesses have been associated with use of e-cigarettes (vaping). Since the specific causes of these lung injury cases are not yet known, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) recommends refraining from all vaping products. Because THC products appear to be implicated in many if not most of these vaping-related lung injuries, nobody should consume marijuana products by vaping.

Source:
Vaporizers Are Not A Safe Way To Smoke Marijuana

Many people think vaping is less harmful than smoking. While it’s true that e-cigarette aerosol doesn’t include all the contaminants in tobacco smoke, it still isn’t safe. Here are just a few of the reasons why:

• Most e-cigarettes deliver nicotine, which is highly addictive and can harm the developing brains of teens, kids and fetuses in women who vape while pregnant. Some types expose users to even more nicotine than traditional cigarettes.
• In addition to nicotine, e-cigarette vapor includes potentially harmful substances such as diacetyl (a chemical linked to a serious lung disease), cancer-causing chemicals, volatile organic compounds (VOCs), and heavy metals such as nickel, tin, and lead. Users breathe in these toxic contaminants, and non-users nearby risk secondhand exposure.
• The liquid used in e-cigarettes can be dangerous, even apart from its intended use. Children and adults have been poisoned by swallowing, breathing or absorbing the liquid through their skin or eyes.
• E-cigarettes have been linked to thousands of cases of serious lung injury, some resulting in death. While the exact cause is still not confirmed, the CDC recommends that people not use e-cigarettes.

E-cigarettes’ biggest threat to public health may be this: The increasing popularity of vaping may “re-normalize” smoking, which has declined for years. Reversing the hard-won gains in the global effort to curb smoking would be catastrophic. Smoking is still the leading preventable cause of death and is responsible for 480,000 American lives lost each year.

Source:
American Heart Association:
Is Vaping Better Than Smoking?

Also, vaping is more intense than smoking marijuana, and it will get you high and not sober minded. This is a direct violation of Scripture that commands Christians to be sober minded (1 Peter 1:13 KJV) (1 Peter 4:7 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:2 KJV) (1 Timothy 3:11 KJV) (Titus 1:8 KJV) (Titus 2:2 KJV) (Titus 2:4 KJV) (Titus 2:6 KJV) (Titus 2:12 KJV) (1 Thessalonians 5:6, 7, 8). For God's Word wants us to be sober minded for our adversary the devil, is a roaring lion, who walks about, seeking those whom he may devour (1 Peter 5:8 KJV).

1 Corinthians 3:17 says,
"If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are."

Smoking or vaping surely destroys the temple.

We associate with stoners and potheads (who worship a plant) when we smoke or vape marijuana. Yet, we are told in Scripture to abstain from all appearance of evil.

"Abstain from all appearance of evil." (1 Thessalonians 5:22).

Literally NONE of the hospitalizations have been from vaping the actual flower. They have all been from processed oil cartridges. The specific type of illness they are getting is called Eosinophilic Pneumonia. Which results from globs of oil that the cannabinoids are suspended in (being that it is a fat soluable compound rather than water soluable) accumulating in the lungs and Eosinophils (white blood cells usually related to handling larger invaders like parasites) try to envelop the oil globs and die, resulting in basically pus, fluid, and inflammation in the lungs. This doesn't happen from vaping the actual flower because it's not suspended in oil, and there are no thickening agents added (which are more oils, Vitamin E is another fat soluable compound)
so is it perfectly safe? No. But it's much safer than smoking, and much more reliable for dosing without getting too much or too little than eating.
You want to know what really destroys the body? Inflammatory disease. I went without proper treatment for years trying to find something that worked. My toes and elbows are DEFORMED from the illness. When your immune system chews up your cartilage it disfigures and cripples you for life. Whatever damage may possibly done from vaping flower is comparatively benign to the damage the disease does when it's not properly being treated.
As an aside I am on 2 other prescription medications trying to handle this. Without all 3 things, I stop being in remission.
1 of the drugs, is Methotrexate, a chemotherapy agent used to treat brain cancer, it is so toxic to your liver that your doctor will tell you for your own health you should have no more than 1 alcoholic beverage a week and you really shouldn't have any at all (which is what I do). Even despite avoiding alcohol my liver is being poisoned by this drug and we have had to scale back my dosage (making the condition harder to control) because my liver values are high. The other prescription is Humira, which weakens your immune system. I went from autoimmune to immunocompromised to compensate.
So if you take a hard line on damage to your body, that means you take a hard line on any medications even though the damage a disease can do might be more impactful on your life. You have to weigh benefits vs harm. Improving quality of life with not being in pain, and being able to walk at least short distances (the bone on bone erosion in my knees still limits me on distance or time spent standing), is a dramatic improvement.
So put it in perspective. Should I care more about other people's prejudices than my own health and well being?

 

[GaveMeJoy]

I pray for healing every single day. All I can say is we're not promised health and a long life on this earth, that's part of the old covenant. We're promised resurrection and eternal life in the new earth.

But also promised joy and peace, no matter what our circumstances.

 

[Jamdoc]

I believe Jesus made unfermented wine (non intoxicating fresh grape juice) as a part of his miracle at Cana. Here is a thread at CF, I created a while back on this (if you are interested).

6 Biblical Reasons Why Jesus Made Unfermented Wine (Grape Juice).

Here is another CF thread on the topic of wine in the Bible.

The Bible and Older Dictionaries say that 'wine" is also grape juice.

Anyways, I believe much confusion arises on this particular topic, because folks fail to realize that there are...

Three Types of Wine in the Bible:

Among the saints and various cultures, wine in Biblical times was mixed with water. This would be one of the three types of wine mentioned in the Bible. Here is a quick list of the three types of wine in the Bible:

#1. Fermented Wine (Strong in alcoholic content).
It was primarily barbarians or pagan Gentle nations who drank this kind of wine.

#2. Fermented Wine Diluted by Water (Low in alcoholic content).
This was the type of wine the Israelite drank and it was the wine that was served by the wedding organizer at Cana. Israelites would store fully fermented wine in leather pouches and or by other methods and then they would dilute it with water in order to drink it.

#3. Unfermented Wine or Freshly Squeezed Grape Juice (A non intoxicating beverage).
This was the wine that Jesus made at the wedding at Cana. It is also the wine used in the Passover.​

I believe the wine during Bible times that the Old Testament saints drank was Wine Type #2, whereby it was a wine mixed with water and was lower in alcoholic content (Which was the wine seen at the Wedding of Cana before Christ made Wine Type #3, which was non intoxicating grape juice or unfermented wine); In other words, the wines commonly drank by the OT saints was not like the strong wines of today; And Jesus made grape juice that made was considered the “best wine.” Wines of today (By wine tasters) are considered the best by their taste and not how much they can intoxicate you.

Wine mixed (diluted) with Water Verses:

Revelation 14:10 says,
“The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb”
(Contrast this with Psalms 75:8)

1 Timothy 5:23 says,
"Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities."

Proverbs 9:2 (NIV) says,
"She has prepared her meat and mixed her wine; she has also set her table."

Proverbs 23:31 - Do not look at wine when it is red.

John 19:34 - Blood and water mingled together from Christ's side; And Scripture essentially says the wine in the Lord's supper is representative of Jesus's blood (See Matthew 26:27-29).

Isaiah 1:22 CJB
“Your silver is no longer pure, your wine is watered down.”

Pure silver, which would be too soft to be durable, is mixed with 5-20% copper in an alloy known as sterling silver.

How silver is made - material, making, history, used, processing, industry.

If one were to take note: One has to mix copper in silver in order for it to be durable so as to be used. Just as one must use water in their mixture of wine to drink it more safely like an Israelite.

So the idea here is that the silver (mixed with copper) they use has become so dross (or watered down it is then cheap. Just as the wine (mixed with water) is diluted even more whereby it is cheap wine to the Israelite.

Wine could be bought and carried in an undiluted state within leather skin like bottles and then later mixed with water for use. Timothy was told to use a little wine in his water because of the infirmities in his stomach. Paul was telling him to use Biblical wine so as to resolve a medical issue.

Extra Biblical Sources on how wine was mixed with water:

2 Maccabees 15:39, Talmud, and Justin Martyr, etc.

Wine in that sense was also used to kill bacteria and parasites in the water. You wouldn't want to drink straight river water without some method of killing all the microorganisms in it. Boiling it, alcohol, iodine, something like that helps make the water safe to drink.

 

[Jamdoc]

But also promised joy and peace, no matter what our circumstances.

and promised tribulation, persecution, and hardship. Do you stick by Jesus in the foul weather or only the fair? That's the point of it.

 

[GaveMeJoy]

I believe Jesus made unfermented wine (non intoxicating fresh grape juice) as a part of his miracle at Cana. Here is a thread at CF, I created a while back on this (if you are interested).

6 Biblical Reasons Why Jesus Made Unfermented Wine (Grape Juice).

Here is another CF thread on the topic of wine in the Bible.

The Bible and Older Dictionaries say that 'wine" is also grape juice.

Anyways, I believe much confusion arises on this particular topic, because folks fail to realize that there are...

Three Types of Wine in the Bible:

Among the saints and various cultures, wine in Biblical times was mixed with water. This would be one of the three types of wine mentioned in the Bible. Here is a quick list of the three types of wine in the Bible:

#1. Fermented Wine (Strong in alcoholic content).
It was primarily barbarians or pagan Gentle nations who drank this kind of wine.

#2. Fermented Wine Diluted by Water (Low in alcoholic content).
This was the type of wine the Israelite drank and it was the wine that was served by the wedding organizer at Cana. Israelites would store fully fermented wine in leather pouches and or by other methods and then they would dilute it with water in order to drink it.

#3. Unfermented Wine or Freshly Squeezed Grape Juice (A non intoxicating beverage).
This was the wine that Jesus made at the wedding at Cana. It is also the wine used in the Passover.​

I believe the wine during Bible times that the Old Testament saints drank was Wine Type #2, whereby it was a wine mixed with water and was lower in alcoholic content (Which was the wine seen at the Wedding of Cana before Christ made Wine Type #3, which was non intoxicating grape juice or unfermented wine); In other words, the wines commonly drank by the OT saints was not like the strong wines of today; And Jesus made grape juice that made was considered the “best wine.” Wines of today (By wine tasters) are considered the best by their taste and not how much they can intoxicate you.

Wine mixed (diluted) with Water Verses:

Revelation 14:10 says,
“The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb”
(Contrast this with Psalms 75:8)

1 Timothy 5:23 says,
"Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities."

Proverbs 9:2 (NIV) says,
"She has prepared her meat and mixed her wine; she has also set her table."

Proverbs 23:31 - Do not look at wine when it is red.

John 19:34 - Blood and water mingled together from Christ's side; And Scripture essentially says the wine in the Lord's supper is representative of Jesus's blood (See Matthew 26:27-29).

Isaiah 1:22 CJB
“Your silver is no longer pure, your wine is watered down.”

Pure silver, which would be too soft to be durable, is mixed with 5-20% copper in an alloy known as sterling silver.

How silver is made - material, making, history, used, processing, industry.

If one were to take note: One has to mix copper in silver in order for it to be durable so as to be used. Just as one must use water in their mixture of wine to drink it more safely like an Israelite.

So the idea here is that the silver (mixed with copper) they use has become so dross (or watered down it is then cheap. Just as the wine (mixed with water) is diluted even more whereby it is cheap wine to the Israelite.

Wine could be bought and carried in an undiluted state within leather skin like bottles and then later mixed with water for use. Timothy was told to use a little wine in his water because of the infirmities in his stomach. Paul was telling him to use Biblical wine so as to resolve a medical issue.

Extra Biblical Sources on how wine was mixed with water:

2 Maccabees 15:39, Talmud, and Justin Martyr, etc.

Interesting. So you think all the scriptures saying not to get drunk on wine are referring to non mixed wine?

The concept of bringing cheap wine out later after the good wine is quite obviously based on the fact that the wine was an intoxicant, and people can’t tell the difference after they have had some initially, but it’s a cool thought interesting!!!

 

[GaveMeJoy]

and promised tribulation, persecution, and hardship. Do you stick by Jesus in the foul weather or only the fair? That's the point of it.

I disagree that this is the point of it. I think it’s the other way around. The tribulation, persecution and hardship are actually tools that the Lord uses to conform us to the image of Christ, which is where we can find true joy and peace independent of circumstances.

Happiness and comfort are not joy because they are dependent on circumstances. We are actually promised not happiness but Joy, just as we are promised hardship and trials. Paul wrote Philippians while in a prison that was much worse than anything we have now. But the promise below is for now—in the midst of all suffering.

We are not called to struggle through pain and suffering from circumstances out of duty or faith. We are promised peace and joy to weather them.



Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.


Philippians 4:4-7