Biblical Stories that Support Evolutionary Science

[EPHRIAM777]

Originally posted by LadyShea [/i]
Yes, I have read it, I know all about the Giants created when Angels had sex with human women (does this not smack of myth or legend to you Christians?). Where are they now is what I was asking


Eph asks...

LS...am I in your mind some kind of second class person...?? I see the words "you Christians"...in your post as if we're something to be avoided like the plague...LOL

The next question to you then would be.....WHY would you come to a Christian Forum..to BE with "Those Christians"...?

To answer your questions though....!

They would be for the most part at the bottom of the oceans..OR under the ground that was churned around during the flood...!

OR if you have studied the Book of Enoch at all...they would be disembodied spirits that walk the earth to this day...looking for people to possess...!

These according to Enoch...are also the "beings" who control the people that can tell you your past...( palm readers Tarot card readers ect ect )...Or they are the actual beings that can make you think you lived a prior life ...not because YOU actually did..but because THEY were around to witness the memories you think are your own..from some long ago time..!

You are aware they DO exist ...correct...?

Jesus cast out many of them and so did the Apostles..!

MARK's Gosple is chock full of em...! Read it on a cold spooky winters night..It's better than Poe...!

 

[LadyShea]

I didn't mean it that way as any of my Christian friends on these forums will attest to, I will edit it. Again, though, I must say you are evading the real issues with scemantics nitpicking. I will point blank tell you what I think of you, I will not slime my way around inserting little jibes, okay ?

So you're saying that the offspring of the angels and humans became demons? I don't recall Genesis saying they were fallen angels, just angels...why would they become demons? And FYI, NO, I do not believe in angels or demons...I am asking for your thoughts based on your beliefs.

 

[EPHRIAM777]

Originally posted by extra


I hope I have bursted YOUR bubble.


Eph writes...

Not tat tall laddy...!

Did you know that Evo says that at one time the Earth was hot molten liquid rock that came together and over vast periods of time it cooled down and came together with pressure and formed an outer crust..that over a vast amount of time also cooled some more..ect ect ...!

With me so far extra..?

Then over more vast amounts of time..ect ect ( I gotta speed this up a bit ok ).. rain started and small pools of muck formed from the rocks...and chemicals were in the muck and the rain and "more vast amounts of time past"..!

...Till that muck began to also cool ect ect and the eliments of life were ALL there and the exact mixture was present to begin life..Maybe as small one celled animals..or fungus..or something like that...

This mixture over vast amounts of time...is eventually what we all came from...

Yes or no..THAT is the Evo position correct...?

So...what YOU believe IF you trace it back to it's beginings is...We all came from..Rocks...!!

Granny was a rock..???

.....and you make fun of Christians who believe we were created by God..?

 

[LadyShea]

Did you know that Evo says that at one time the Earth was hot molten liquid rock that came together and over vast periods of time it cooled down and came together with pressure and formed an outer crust..that over a vast amount of time also cooled some more..ect ect ...!

This is cosmology not evolution...it's this whole different branch of science

 

[EPHRIAM777]

Originally posted by LadyShea
I didn't mean it that way as any of my Christian friends on these forums will attest to, I will edit it. Again, though, I must say you are evading the real issues with scemantics nitpicking. I will point blank tell you what I think of you, I will not slime my way around inserting little jibes, okay ?

Eph says..

So you were WRONG on that "OP" thingy...right...? Nowhere did the OP ask for bible verses...and SPECULATION was "allowed"

Yes or No...??


LS asks..

So you're saying that the offspring of the angels and humans became demons?


Eph writes...

No...I said the Book of Enoch says they became disembodied spirits that walk the earth...there are different kinds of demons.. of which this group is now a part of...


Ls states and asks..
I don't recall Genesis saying they were fallen angels, just angels...why would they become demons? And FYI, NO, I do not believe in angels or demons...I am asking for your thoughts based on your beliefs.

Eph replies...

I believe there ARE angels..and there ARE demons..and there are Fallen Angels...and there are the offspring of woman and fallen angels..that are some sort of HYBRID being...!

According to the book of Enoch...These Hybrids of angel and women.. now walk the earth till judgement day because God made no eternal place for them...Remember Hell was made for Satan and his Angels...not for their offspring made with women..( "daughters of Adam" in the Literal Hebrew )..

They are my thoughts on this...and according to the rest of what scripture says.....Enoch made alot of sence...and was heavily quoted in the Bible...!

 

[EPHRIAM777]

Originally posted by LadyShea [/i]
This is cosmology not evolution...it's this whole different branch of science


Eph writes...

No...thats what Evo is based on...We all came from rocks...!

 

[lithium.]

Rocks? Where did you get that from?

 

[Underdog]

Is this how it's gonna be, eph? You dismiss my entire post, and reply only to my last comment. How disingenuous.

Stop dabbling in things that you obviously know nothing about.

Stick to other Biblical discussions. This one is not your strong suit.

If you want people to give you any credibility on this topic, answer my points in my other post, and answer ladyshea's questions.

 

[EPHRIAM777]

Originally posted by LadyShea
I didn't mean it that way as any of my Christian friends on these forums will attest to,


Eph wonders...

So I guess I'm just one of your "christain friends"...? Does that mean we can't be real friends like your non christian friends are..or might be..?

How do I get on your good side now that you know my little secret about being a Christian...LS..?

Ls says...

Again, though, I must say you are evading the real issues with scemantics nitpicking. I will point blank tell you what I think of you, I will not slime my way around inserting little jibes, okay ?

Eph writes

OK...!!

(( I get the feeling you really DO like me now even though I'm still only a Christian Friend to you ))

.....one day I hope I get to be your real friend..

HEY LS....that thought brings up a story I know and love...It's from the Bible though..would you like me to tell it to you..??


please please please...???

 

[Underdog]

Originally posted by extra
"Why..? Evolution is based on what's known as "circular reasoning"...It isn't scientific..it was and IS still a theory...That with the increased knowledge of Genetics..and DNA...is a proven fallicy...!"

Tell that to the scientific community. They will laugh in your face.

"Monkey's for example can have 98 persent of our DNA match...but unless it's 100% it's a total wash out..!"

Wash out of what? And, other living things have a high percentage of simmilar DNA. This ought to say something of some commonality. Wouldn't ya think?

"Evolution is just a bad mistake.....it's not even a lie anymore...! It's only taught today by those who would be best compared to people 1000 yrs ago teaching the world was flat....Old outdated once believed to be true data...still pushed by the "hard flat earthers" of Evolution...!"

Nice switch.

It took the Christian community a long time to finally accept scientific findings that the earth is not flat. The Christians argued from a literal interpretation of the Bible that the earth is flat. It also took the Christian community a long time to finally accept the scientific findings that the earth does not stand still with the sun, planets and universe revolving around it. As a matter of fact, many were ostracized and threatened by the religious community for giving any credence to Galileo or Copernicus.

"The best Scientists are NOW distancing themselves from it because of breakthroughs in DNA and Genitic's...Your more apt to be struck by lightning 1 million times in a row AND then turn into a monkey..than you are to evolve into one...from anything else...!

Sorry to burst your bubble...!"

You show complete ignorance and contempt for this subject. It is only in your imagination that the scientific community is distancing themselves from evolution. Your comments are wishfull thinking at best.

I hope I have bursted YOUR bubble.

Here's my post. Back up your claims, answer my points, or get off the pot.

 

[LadyShea]

Hey Eph, gimme some credit! I admitted I was wrong about the OP in my post at the bottom of the previous page (oops, page 4 now).

You can tell me any story you wish.

To get on my good side, simply answer all questions to the best of your knowledge, use IMO or some other qualifier if you do not have the hard data, concede once in awhile if one of my arguments makes sense...I will do the same for you...sound friendly ?

 

[Pete Harcoff]

Originally posted by EPHRIAM777
Well lets look at it another way then..Are people all of one KIND..even though they are of different colors..I say yes...People are people...You can have different colored hair..eyes...skin..But we're still the same KIND...so genetically it MUST be possible..or some other biological way we don't know of or understand fully yet...!

All humans are of the same KIND..we can all inter-marry with each other and produce "human offspring" of various colors and sizes...thus we are of the same KIND... ( I have to be careful how I write this because I'm close to being banned by the monitors )...

That wasn't my question. Rather, I was under the impression that a person could not carry the genes to produce both light and dark skin (unless I'm wrong, which I why I threw out the question).

EVOLUTION teaching says basically... You can take a rock..and a fish...and mix them together and produce a bird the first time and a horse the next..."Creationists" say no ya can't...fish produce fish..birds produce birds ect ect..every thing after it's KIND.....there can be variations such as size and color..!

There is nothing in evolutionary theory that says mixing a rock and a fish will produce a bird. Please, do some research on the subject.

Well how do scientists date the various strata layers..?

ANSWER: By the fossils found in them...and How then do they date the fossils..??

ANSWER: By the depth their found at in the various strata layers..!

That means they use the Fossils to date the Strata...and the Strata to date the Fossils....Thats Circular reasoning...using one to date the other and vice versa...In each instance of so called "Scientific Dating"..the same type of method is used...! ...I can list them if you like...?

First of all, this is geology, not evolution.

Secondly, scientists have scores of dating methods for producing independent, yet coinciding results. Look up radiometric dating, for example (though I imagine you'll already have a pre-prepared dismissil for this, as well).

Yes but it's being delivered as "factual"..not theory...and thats where all the controversy was..( not any more really with real scientists... but TV shows and "flat earthers" type disciples..)

Because evolution is supported by facts.

Fact: There exist skeletons of long-dead species that no longer exist today.
Fact: These skeletons are similar to species which exist today.
Fact: Organisms reproduce, and the offspring are not perfect clones of the parents (they vary somewhat).
Fact: Over time, populations of organisms change and can form new species (this has been observed and documented, btw).

Theory: Modern organisms are descended from previously existing organisms.

Obviously, this is a gross over-simplification, but the reason evolutionary theory is treated as "fact" among the scientific community, is because of the overwelming body of factual evidence which supports it.

Evolution at it's base is death..the entire "theory" rests on things dying and getting better because of it...!

And your arguments against evolution rely on poor strawmen tractics.

The idea of natural selection (that is, survival of the 'fittest') is that the organisms that are better adapted to survive in their particular environment will more likely survive and reproduce than organisms that aren't as well adapted. Therefore, it's the surviving organisms that go onto dominate their ecological niches and become "better" (although, what constitutes "better" from a survivability standpoint is dependant on the organism's environment and competing organisms).

 

[Jerry Smith]

EVOLUTION teaching says basically... You can take a rock..and a fish...and mix them together and produce a bird the first time and a horse the next..."Creationists" say no ya can't...fish produce fish..birds produce birds ect ect..every thing after it's KIND.....there can be variations such as size and color..!

Did he really say this??

*jaw drops*

Eph.. I didn't see your post that this was quoted from, but my goodness... you need to slow down & learn about what you are arguing against... Learn a lot about it. When you are finished learning about it (for instance that evolution has nothing to do with mixing rocks and fish ?!) - then you may find you have no argument with it. If you do, at least you will be able to make an educated argument against it, and not keep your foot in your mouth. What say?

If you agree this is a good idea - one of the best places to start is:
http://www.talkorigins.org

 

[TheBear]

Uh-oh! I sense the demonization of the word 'theory' coming on.

 

[EPHRIAM777]

Originally posted by LadyShea
Hey Eph, gimme some credit! I admitted I was wrong about the OP in my post at the bottom of the previous page (oops, page 4 now).

You can tell me any story you wish.

To get on my good side, simply answer all questions to the best of your knowledge, use IMO or some other qualifier if you do not have the hard data, concede once in awhile if one of my arguments makes sense...I will do the same for you...sound friendly


Eph writes...

Hey if I didn't care for ya...I wouldn't even reply to ya...

The story is from John 21:15...Jesus asks Peter if he loves him...and uses the word AGAPAO...the highest form of love there is..a love given without looking for anything in return for giving it..Like a mother with her new born child....and Peter answers..You know I PHILEO you...Phileo is a lesser love...like the love you could have for ice cream..or for the beach...

Jesus asks him again saying ..Do you AGAPAO me Peter ?...and Peter says again " you know I Phileo you"...kinda like saying..Jesus...I really really LIKE you...Not A+ love....more like C-....

Jesus the third time says ..Peter do you PHILEO me ?...and Peter was "grieved"..because Jesus lowered his standard down to where Peter's was...

The meaning of tha is JESUS takes us where we are with the LOVE we DO have for him...But like Peter..he's not gonna leave us there....as verse 18 and 19 point out...

Peter was crucified...but when he was crucified he asked his crucifiers..to be turned upside down..saying to them "I'm not worthy to be crucified in the same way as my Lord was"...THUS showing he rose to the level of the APAGPO type love...!

It get lost in the English translation because the word is written as LOVE...in each of the verses...but that not how it was written in the Greek...!

 

[EPHRIAM777]

Originally posted by Jerry Smith
Did he really say this??

*jaw drops*

Eph.. I didn't see your post that this was quoted from, but my goodness... you need to slow down & learn about what you are arguing against... Learn a lot about it. When you are finished learning about it (for instance that evolution has nothing to do with mixing rocks and fish ?!) - then you may find you have no argument with it. If you do, at least you will be able to make an educated argument against it, and not keep your foot in your mouth. What say?

Eph writes...


I see your not quite up to speed on this subject...Jerry...!

I'd suggest you look up this big word "UNIFORMITARIANISM".....

IT is the foundation stone of the EVO theory...!

 

[JohnR7]

Originally posted by EPHRIAM777

I'd suggest you look up this big word "UNIFORMITARIANISM".....

IT is the foundation stone of the EVO theory...!

I can go along with that for the first 6 days of creation. But then on the 8 th day, God got personally involved. That was when He planted the garden of Eden and put Adam there to take care of it.

Of from the Science perspective. Europe is made up of 4/5 hunter gathers. But around 6000 years ago, a new man who was into agriculture showed up. His decendants currently make up 1/5 of what we find in Europe.

The had a profound effect on the people who were living there at the time.

 

[notto]

Originally posted by JohnR7
I
Of from the Science perspective. Europe is made up of 4/5 hunter gathers. But around 6000 years ago, a new man who was into agriculture showed up. His decendants currently make up 1/5 of what we find in Europe.

Of course, agricutlure did not start here and the group (not a single man) that moved to Europe "brought" agriculture with them and Agriculture pre-dated this move in other cultures.

http://www.aces.uiuc.edu/~sare/columbian.html
" Earliest evidence for plant cultivation in the Americas appears to be about 10,000 yearsold in South America, where potatoes and a variety of other plants was first domesticated, and 9,000 years old in Central America where corn and a variety of other crops were domesticated. Plant domestication appears to have started later in eastern North America, including the land that is now Illinois."

"The dates of domesticated plants and animals vary with the regions, but most predate the 6th millennium bc, and the earliest may date from 10,000 bc. Scientists have carried out carbon-14 testing of animal and plant remains and have dated finds of domesticated sheep at 9000 bc in northern Iraq; cattle in the 6th millennium bc in northeastern Iran; goats at 8000 bc in central Iran; pigs at 8000 bc in Thailand and 7000 bc in Thessaly; onagers, or asses, at 7000 bc in Jarmo, Iraq; and horses at 4350 bc in Ukraine. The llama and alpaca were domesticated in the Andean regions of South America by the middle of the 3d millennium bc .

http://www.adbio.com/science/agri-history.htm
According to carbon dating, wheat and barley were domesticated in the Middle East in the 8th millennium bc; millet and rice in China and southeastern Asia by 5500 bc; and squash in Mexico about 8000 bc. Legumes found in Thessaly and Macedonia are dated as early as 6000 bc. Flax was grown and apparently woven into textiles early in the Neolithic period. "

http://museum.agropolis.fr/english/pages/expos/fresque/module_4.htm
"Agriculture started simultaneously in several parts of the world. Euro-mediterranean agriculture started in the Middle-East (def.) and spread, first to the western Mediterranean region, then up to the northern part of Europe. This happened between 6000 and 2000 BP. "

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by EPHRIAM777

Well lets look at it another way then..Are people all of one KIND..even though they are of different colors..I say yes...People are people...You can have different colored hair..eyes...skin..But we're still the same KIND...so genetically it MUST be possible..or some other biological way we don't know of or understand fully yet...!

You agree the diversity of the races are genetic.  Now, how do you explain the genetic differences from one ancesteral set of parents?.... (hint: how are different breeds of dogs, cats, horses, etc. brought into existance from totally different breeds?)

Originally posted by EPHRIAM777
All humans are of the same KIND..we can all inter-marry with each other and produce "human offspring" of various colors and sizes...thus we are of the same KIND... ( I have to be careful how I write this because I'm close to being banned by the monitors )...

 

So, you basically agree with the concept of selective reproduction?  Or, in the case of inter-racial marriages (of which I'm an offspring), that new races could occur in the future. However, we mixed-bloods are still considered human beings.  My friend, you are on your way to understanding that evolution does and can occur... (even among us humans) 

Originally posted by EPHRIAM777

EVOLUTION teaching says basically... You can take a rock..and a fish...and mix them together and produce a bird the first time and a horse the next..."Creationists" say no ya can't...fish produce fish..birds produce birds ect ect..every thing after it's KIND.....there can be variations such as size and color..! )...

 

sigghhh... you were doing so well until you made this statement.  I'd suggest a review of Biology (My interest is Micro-Biology).. and you'll CLEARLY see that no scientist has EVER stated 'you take a rock and a fish and mix them together and produce a bird'.  Evolutionary Science has never made such a claim.

p.s. Variations in size and color produced in any particular species is EXACTLY what Evolutionary Science explains.  You're getting there!

Originally posted by EPHRIAM777
Well how do scientists date the various strata layers..?

ANSWER: By the fossils found in them...and How then do they date the fossils..??

ANSWER: By the depth their found at in the various strata layers..!

That means they use the Fossils to date the Strata...and the Strata to date the Fossils....Thats Circular reasoning...using one to date the other and vice versa...In each instance of so called "Scientific Dating"..the same type of method is used...! ...I can list them if you like...?

 

WRONG!!!! Now you need to review basic Geology to  learn how strata layers are dated.  (Sorry, I'm not giving you the answer to this one, you'll learn more if you "Seek and ye shall Find")

I truly hope you find scientific truth and realize that science in no way contradicts Christianity.

Respectfully,

Smilin

 

[Smilin]

Originally posted by LadyShea
I could speculate that someone showed a pregnant woman a dark object and her baby was born with dark skin (isn't this how someone in the Old Testament got striped and spotted goats...by showing the ewes striped sticks and spotted stones or some such?)

  errr...this is in the Bible?  geeze I'm slipping I don't remember this story.... LadyShea my good friend do you have a scriptural quote?