Biblical precendent for women divorcing their husbands?

[JillLars]

If a woman leaves an abusive man what happens? The man finds another woman to abuse and (or) the woman finds another man to abuse her.

Or, the man realizes the mistakes he has made and realizes he has come close to losing everything dear to him and gets his butt in gear to improve the future, while he can't repair things with his wife, he can help himself be a better person for his children. The wife can quit putting up with the abuse for the safety of herself and her children and find a nice guy who treats her with the love and respect she has always deserved.

I don't think its fair to make this a trusting God issue. Sometimes people will not allow God to work in their lives, if an abuser will not seek God for help, the chances of him changing through God are not very likely. In the meantime, the wife/husband being abused and the children are suffering unimaginable damage.

My parents divorced last april and I believe it is the best thing for their situation. I don't believe it was ever in God's will for them to get married in the first place. They are both better people now when they are apart. My dad is no longer an abuser, he finally realized what he had to lose, he takes care of things around the house, he shows emotion to me, and my siblings. The absence of constant screaming is a definate bonus for my siblings who still live at home. I honestly believe that God understands each individual situation because he knows the people involved.

 

[ceres]

It really bothers me that the Bible has all those verses saying it is okay for men to divorce women, but not for women to divorce men. [under certain circumstances is implied here] There is nothing about abuse. But how can it be wrong to divorce an abusive husband? How can you say we should "obey" an abusive husband? And at what point is it okay to leave?

 

[cutekid 4 Jesus]

well ceres i believe as many others,that Jesus was referring to men and women in the sermon on the mount when he implies that divorce is permissiible on the grounds of adultery-as many other times in the bible people are addressed as man,and i see no reason why God would mean its ok for men(who are more likely to commit adultery)to divorce and women not to!Also as mentioned by Rising Tree, a divorceless seperation is permissible when the marriage breaks down,ie.cases like abuse.In this case i probably wouldnt advocate remarriage,but I think using our wisdom we can see God wouldnt want us to stay with a man beating us black and blue,never mind our children-you might even be doing him a favor by leaving...many men end up killing their wives through abuse so u would be preventing him doing that by acting wisely. Im very dismayed by some of the attitiudes expressed on this subject and its interesting to find the ones who are totally agianst seperation have not watched their mum being beat up or cheated on.

 

[JillLars]

About this divorceless seperation, I really don't see how that can be justified as a couple isn't fulfilling any of the requirements of marriage while they are seperated, the bible says to leave your parents and cleave to your wife, that obviously isn't happening if you are seperated, you also aren't providing each other with the mutual love and support that is commanded of a married couple...how then is a divorceless seperation any different than a legal divorce?

 

[blitzn]

About this divorceless seperation, I really don't see how that can be justified as a couple isn't fulfilling any of the requirements of marriage while they are seperated, the bible says to leave your parents and cleave to your wife, that obviously isn't happening if you are seperated, you also aren't providing each other with the mutual love and support that is commanded of a married couple...how then is a divorceless seperation any different than a legal divorce?

The divorceless-separation (as I understand it) being referred to in the Bible was intended as a time to be separated physically for the purpose of prayer and fasting (to get closer the God) and was not a permanent situation.

Everyone these days seems to see the words divorce and separation and automatically tries to apply the "today" definitions to what the Bible states; usually they're really not the same thing. We should all pray to the Lord for His understanding and the wisdom that comes from it (myself included).

- blitzn

 

[blitzn]

Then please point out which ones say women can divorce their husbands so people will start being nice to me.

Desi,

This is just unbelievable. It's almost as if most of the folks posting on this thread aren't even reading any of the scripture that's been presented.

Remember guys and gals, if it's easy and "feels good", it's usually not of God. BUT, that doesn't mean that there's not grace when we make mistakes! The Word of God says:

"For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another; so that ye cannot do the things that ye would." Gal 5:17 (KJV)

Also,

"Go in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are the ones entering in through it." Mat 7:13 (LITV)

We are a peculiar people, ya know?

- blitzn

 

[cutekid 4 Jesus]

oh yeh its really easy to go through a divorce when your spouse has cheated on you-what planet r u from?

 

[cutekid 4 Jesus]

i don think u and desi r using ur wisdom in interpreting scriptures yourself. I dont think its a coincidence to see men advocating only men can divorce.I advise you to adopt a less rule oriented approach and think about Gods love for us when you read the scriptures on divorce.I got no more to say about this,Ive said most what I got to say.
shalom

 

[desi]

i don think u and desi r using ur wisdom in interpreting scriptures yourself.

Maybe if we had some white out and a typewriter we could do a better job?

 

[blitzn]

oh yeh its really easy to go through a divorce when your spouse has cheated on you-what planet r u from?

cutekid, (by the way, my wife is currently cheating on me)

Just want you to know that I take no offense to your words and although I don't agree with the way you seem to be interpreting the scripture; the Word says: "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches..." Rev 2:7; We all have to do our best to interpret what the Word says (not necessarily what anyone feels or heard is right).

Have you read my thread entitled "Marriage ending, please pray for us"? I'm assuming that you haven't based on your comments. I happen to be currently going through this exact situation, and I am at this moment in a position to make or not make this choice and therefore have some basis to speak from. Are you now or have you ever been in this position in your marriage? You are married right?

If you've read what I posted you'll see that I said technically, neither men nor women can "divorce" biblically (as I understand it, based on study).

Honestly we should not be "arguing" about the Word anyway, we're bro's and sis's in Christ right?

I think this is my last word on the subject as well. I love ya'll, God bless.

- blitzn

 

[ceres]

I think a divorceless separation is unreasonable. If your husband is beating you, is that your fault? You have to remain alone/unmarried for the rest of your life? No, I think it is okay to get a divorce and to remarry should you meet the right man. Divorce is obviously not ideal, but we do live in a fallen world and we have to be realistic. It is better to marry that to burn with desire, Paul said that, and I think that would apply to this situation. Very few people would like the choice "stay and get beat, or leave and be alone forever"

 

[Lotuspetal_uk]

I get the impression with this thread that the Biblical accounts relating to divorce is merely being used here to incite a heated gender debate.

And yet when we look at Matthew 19:3-9 it is not saying men can only divorce wives but that God hates divorce and the only reason it was permitted was because the believers hearts were hard (Matt 19:8).

During Jesus' lifetime the Jews living in the Roman Empire were influenced by the Greek culture and its treatment of women. In such a culture women were second class citizens. The teachings of that time had degenerated away from the Mosaic Law to the point where a woman could be divorced for any reason. Jesus was correcting this viewpoint with his sermon.

In Paul's letter to the Galations it is clear how we all are seen in Christ (Gal 3:28) even though like a body part we have distinct roles to play. So instructions such as those in 1 Cor 7:12-14 are there for both men and women implying that at the time of Paul's letters both genders felt that they could perform something that God hates (Mal 2:16).

I don't know if anyone realises this here but topics such as these and the misuse of it have been tools used by other religions to say that Christianity hates women and oppresses women.

Just my .02 c's and something to think about

God bless

 

[ceres]

Do you think there is ever a "point of no return"? A point where someone's heart becomes too hard and even if you could hold onto your marriage it never truly becomes successful because too much damage has been done? I want to say "God can heal all" and I know God has healed cancer, sickness etc. but we are tlaking heart-issues here. When God heals heart issues there is still scar tissue. There always is. What if there is too much and it is too late?

 

[IslandBreeze]

Whoa....well said, Ceres....excellent point!

 

[desi]

Do you think there is ever a "point of no return"? A point where someone's heart becomes too hard and even if you could hold onto your marriage it never truly becomes successful because too much damage has been done? I want to say "God can heal all" and I know God has healed cancer, sickness etc. but we are tlaking heart-issues here. When God heals heart issues there is still scar tissue. There always is. What if there is too much and it is too late?

Its raionalizations like that which contribute to a high divorce rate. You ladies entertain all manner of reasons for divorce which God hates. If you think your wisdom is such you can decide to divorce without following God's will as stated by Jesus himself good luck with your marriages. I never thought it could be so hard for people to take what Jesus says about such things at face value. Its like some of you try to second guess everything to the point you accept nothing as it is written.

 

[Risen Tree]

There's no need to turn this into a battle of the sexes. Divorce is divorce, and the Scriptures have some harsh words against it.

 

[desi]

There's no need to turn this into a battle of the sexes. Divorce is divorce, and the Scriptures have some harsh words against it.

Don't turn my soap box speech directed toward several people into me versus all womankind. You know that's not fair.

 

[ceres]

Its raionalizations like that which contribute to a high divorce rate. You ladies entertain all manner of reasons for divorce which God hates. If you think your wisdom is such you can decide to divorce without following God's will as stated by Jesus himself good luck with your marriages. I never thought it could be so hard for people to take what Jesus says about such things at face value. Its like some of you try to second guess everything to the point you accept nothing as it is written.

I don't claim to know all or understand all. I am just trying to learn something and hear from people who maybe have more experience in life than me. That is why I am here on this forum. Some things I know more about than others. Some things I know a lot about. When I am offline I am expected to know all and follow a certain set of beliefs, so when I come on here I am looking for good input and maybe get some of my own questions answered.

I have found that perspective is reality. Whatever perspective we have is given to us through our experiences. And that perspective BECOMES our reality. There is a direct correlation/causation between what sorts of experiences or past we have and what we see as "reality." This is related only because it interjects into my study of people. I am learning a lot.

The part where you said "you ladies" I didn't think was very fair. I am only one person, and if I am the devil so be it. I also thought it was rather confrontational. There is no reason to be confrontational with me... I will not be with you.

Desi, (and anyone else with good input) I understand the "it is written" stuff. I know what is written. I have found it disturbing that people are like "divorce is okay in case of adultery." Now why is that true? Why is it more okay when a person cheats then than in cases where people cannot work it out? Then why not push your spouse to cheat on you if you want to leave? Think outside the box here, desi, I know what the Word says, but I want real reasoning. If God intends marriages for life, and I believe He does, why would it be more okay to divorce in cases of infidelity? Let man not separate what God has joined together. But if its okay to separate in cases of infidelity, what about cases where so much pain has been endured that it is impossible to reconcile? Slight physical or intense mental abuse? I think I have seen some of these cases where it seems beyond "the point of no return"..... I guess that is why I wonder. Sure, God did not intend divorce. Divorce is sin.... but there are a lot of other sins we committ everyday without condemning them as adamantly as divorce. Which makes me wonder, maybe we condemn the sins we wouldn't do because we have not had these issues? (back to perspective here) Why is divorce the end all sin?

I know this is long, and I HAte long posts so forgive me, but please do think of some good answers. I am listening even if I disagree.

 

[desi]

I don't claim to know all or understand all. I am just trying to learn something and hear from people who maybe have more experience in life than me. That is why I am here on this forum. Some things I know more about than others. Some things I know a lot about. When I am offline I am expected to know all and follow a certain set of beliefs, so when I come on here I am looking for good input and maybe get some of my own questions answered.

If the Bible gives a straight answer to a question, it is the answer. I don't question such things because marginalizing what the Bible says leads to nonsense such openly Gay Bishops.

I have found that perspective is reality. Whatever perspective we have is given to us through our experiences. And that perspective BECOMES our reality. There is a direct correlation/causation between what sorts of experiences or past we have and what we see as "reality." This is related only because it interjects into my study of people. I am learning a lot.

If you take your perspective from here more seriously than the Bible you will be misled.

The part where you said "you ladies" I didn't think was very fair. I am only one person, and if I am the devil so be it. I also thought it was rather confrontational. There is no reason to be confrontational with me... I will not be with you.

I was referring to you and the ladies who agreed with you based on the pink symbols by your names and what was posted.

Desi, (and anyone else with good input) I understand the "it is written" stuff. I know what is written. I have found it disturbing that people are like "divorce is okay in case of adultery." Now why is that true? Why is it more okay when a person cheats then than in cases where people cannot work it out? Then why not push your spouse to cheat on you if you want to leave? Think outside the box here, desi, I know what the Word says, but I want real reasoning. If God intends marriages for life, and I believe He does, why would it be more okay to divorce in cases of infidelity? Let man not separate what God has joined together. But if its okay to separate in cases of infidelity, what about cases where so much pain has been endured that it is impossible to reconcile? Slight physical or intense mental abuse? I think I have seen some of these cases where it seems beyond "the point of no return"..... I guess that is why I wonder. Sure, God did not intend divorce. Divorce is sin.... but there are a lot of other sins we committ everyday without condemning them as adamantly as divorce. Which makes me wonder, maybe we condemn the sins we wouldn't do because we have not had these issues? (back to perspective here) Why is divorce the end all sin?

Divorce is ripping Christian families apart and women tend to initiate it more than men. Check out chrisfx98's thread in edificationrayer or blitzn's thread in marriage to see where I'm coming from. Or just look at the myriad of complaining threads by women who say 'Marriage in trouble because husband does/does not do x, y, or z. Please pray.' Then look at all the responses from females who say 'Leave the jerk!' This in inconsistent with the Bible, it leads to children of those marriages having sex earlier and more likely to try drugs, increases single parent families living in poverty, and makes Christians hypocrites because they do not follow the Bible's teachings-Jesus has a special place in his heart for hypocrites. In this case it seems the Bible actually makes alot of sense by tightly limiting when divorce is permissable but people seem determined to rationalize their way out of marriage for whatever reason.

I know this is long, and I HAte long posts so forgive me, but please do think of some good answers. I am listening even if I disagree.

My wife and I have called each other names, fought, yelled, argued, cursed etc... We are still together after 9 years of marriage, we were together two years before then. At any time either one of us could have honestly accused the other of physical or emotional abuse and threw in the towel legally. But we didn't. We get along better now than ever and our children are well adjusted and excelling in a school where many children are functioning poorly due to problems at home... mom's boyfriend beats them, they stay at daycare long hours so mom can work two jobs to make ends meet, dad's girlfriend likes her kids more than them etc... Marriage is hard at times. Sometimes you may not like your spouse and they may not care for you but the welfare of the whole family and the word of God should be considered when making decisions such as divorce. Right now my step brother's wife who is a minister's daughter is living with her parents and they are getting a divorce because "they are not happy." They have two children who will be forced to go to two Christmases and eventually deal with people they are not really related to because their mother and father refuse to work things out. They will be taught by word and example that Christianity is the way to go but the Bible is optional. When the word of God becomes suggestion instead of direction it becomes corrupted by perspective. What should be black and white becomes unintelligible gray. Right and wrong become what feels like the right thing to do now? Then destructive actions are made based on those feelings.

 

[ceres]

If you take your perspective from here more seriously than the Bible you will be misled.

In this case it seems the Bible actually makes alot of sense by tightly limiting when divorce is permissable but people seem determined to rationalize their way out of marriage for whatever reason.

My wife and I have called each other names, fought, yelled, argued, cursed etc... We are still together after 9 years of marriage, we were together two years before then. At any time either one of us could have honestly accused the other of physical or emotional abuse and threw in the towel legally. But we didn't. We get along better now than ever and our children are well adjusted and excelling in a school where many children are functioning poorly
due to problems at home... mom's boyfriend beats them, they stay at daycare long hours so mom can work two jobs to make ends meet, dad's girlfriend likes her kids more than them etc... Marriage is hard at times.
Sometimes you may not like your spouse and they may not care for you but the welfare of the whole family and the word of God should be considered when making decisions such as divorce.

I have cut out the parts I want to respond to, but I don't know how to put them neatly in the middle, sorry.

I do not take my perspective form here more seriously from the Bible. However, have you ever considered the Bible itself was written from a particular perspective? That is why we have four different gospels. So when Jesus says something... sometimes he is addressing a particular problem or issue.

It does make sense to limit when divorce is acceptable so that we don't do it for any reason, I agree. This is the kind of thing I was looking for...

I am glad for you that you were able to get through the tough times into the better times. Marriage is hard at times. It could just as well have never gotten better though, if one person was unwilling. I think this is one of the reasons why I do not agree with "well they cheated on you so it is okay to get a divorce" as a statement. Infidelity is a bad situation for sure, but that is no reason to throw in the towel. There are many marriages that make it through infidelity and still succeed.

Unfortunately you didn't answer my main question. WHY is it more okay for a woman (I assume you accept man or woman in the verses?) to get divorced because her husband slept with another woman than for her to divorce him because he abuses her physically? Why is it more okay for a woman[man] to get divorced because her husband slept with another woman than for her to divorce him because he breaks her spirit and will to live by verbally putting her down everyday? Why is it more okay for a woman to get divorced because her husband slept with another woman than for her to divorce him because he refuses to stop looking at inappropriate content and M on a regular basis? Why is that particular situation (infidelity) the only one that Jesus addressed and to that particular crowd?

I do not see how this leads to openly Gay Bishops, but nice try...