Biblical precendent for women divorcing their husbands?

[ceres]

P.S. Remember perspective and to DO YOUR HOMEWORK before you tell me that only men being cheated on get to get divorced. I don't know that you think that way, but you seem like the type that might...

 

[chris320]

I think a divorceless separation is unreasonable. If your husband is beating you, is that your fault? You have to remain alone/unmarried for the rest of your life? No, I think it is okay to get a divorce and to remarry should you meet the right man. Divorce is obviously not ideal, but we do live in a fallen world and we have to be realistic. It is better to marry that to burn with desire, Paul said that, and I think that would apply to this situation. Very few people would like the choice "stay and get beat, or leave and be alone forever"

Ceres,

I do not know if you are married or not, but I would like to make a couple observations. First, my exwife was very abuse to me (verbally and physically) and had I known better before she cheated on me, I would have asked for a separation. If a husband or wife is beating the spouse, it is out of disrespect for them. Because cheating is the ultimate sign of disrespect, if they are physically abusing you they are probably either already cheating on you or are going to begin cheating on you. If you force a separation, they will either clean up their act to get you back or begin cheating on you during the separation.

Jesus only allows people to divorce for adultery, and Paul adds abandonment. Physical abuse is not on the list. So, if they are abusing you, separate and wait until they begin cheating, then divorce them on grounds of adultery. The idea that you would "stay and be alone forever" is a false fear/fantasy. The abusing husband or wife needs to have the opportunity to stop the abuse, and the abused spouse should use the separation to give that person a chance.

-chris320

 

[ceres]

chris320,

I recommend reading the rest of the conversation before interjecting. There was a statement made that a person being abused could leave but they would have to live in a divorceless separation. In another words, they would be able to leave the household but they would have to stay married in legal terms only and they would never be allowed to date or marry again. Is this something you are agreeing with? I do not agree with your logic that beaters are always cheaters. Do you have proven statistics on that? Abuse is a control issue, but it does show disrespect. But it is really about CONTROL. If they knew you had such notions of them cheating on you and then you could get divorced who knows what sorts of fun they could have with that.

 

[desi]

Unfortunately you didn't answer my main question. WHY is it more okay for a woman (I assume you accept man or woman in the verses?) to get divorced because her husband slept with another woman than for her to divorce him because he abuses her physically? Why is it more okay for a woman[man] to get divorced because her husband slept with another woman than for her to divorce him because he breaks her spirit and will to live by verbally putting her down everyday? Why is it more okay for a woman to get divorced because her husband slept with another woman than for her to divorce him because he refuses to stop looking at inappropriate content and M on a regular basis? Why is that particular situation (infidelity) the only one that Jesus addressed and to that particular crowd?

God defined the way it is via the Bible. It is for him to answer, not me.

I do not see how this leads to openly Gay Bishops, but nice try...

By ignoring or refuting clearly defined parts of the Bible you are doing the same thing which has brought us gay Bishops. Corrupting/disregarding the word of God as written in the Bible.

 

[chris320]

chris320,

I recommend reading the rest of the conversation before interjecting. There was a statement made that a person being abused could leave but they would have to live in a divorceless separation. In another words, they would be able to leave the household but they would have to stay married in legal terms only and they would never be allowed to date or marry again. Is this something you are agreeing with?

Keep in mind that this means the abusive spouse cannot marry or date either. I seriously doubt that person is going to agree to this indefinitely either - meaing he will either shape up to get the abused spouse back or eventually start up relationships with others.

I do not agree with your logic that beaters are always cheaters. Do you have proven statistics on that? Abuse is a control issue, but it does show disrespect. But it is really about CONTROL.

If the beaters could live indefinitely without sex in a divorceless separation, why would they have married their spouse to begin with?

If they knew you had such notions of them cheating on you and then you could get divorced who knows what sorts of fun they could have with that.

They can have all the fun they want to with the notion, but it is still fact. If they cheat on you and are unrepentent about it, you can scripturally divorce them.

 

[ceres]

Keep in mind that this means the abusive spouse cannot marry or date either. I seriously doubt that person is going to agree to this indefinitely either - meaing he will either shape up to get the abused spouse back or eventually start up relationships with others.

If the beaters could live indefinitely without sex in a divorceless separation, why would they have married their spouse to begin with?

They can have all the fun they want to with the notion, but it is still fact. If they cheat on you and are unrepentent about it, you can scripturally divorce them.

But what if they are always repentant. "oh honey i am sorry-- move back home and we will work on it" ? what about the abused spouse, he/she mary not want to come back..... that is likely....

 

[desi]

But what if they are always repentant. "oh honey i am sorry-- move back home and we will work on it" ? what about the abused spouse, he/she mary not want to come back..... that is likely....

How many times did Jesus say to forgive those who repent?

 

[ceres]

How many times did Jesus say to forgive those who repent?

That is not respentant, thats manipulative. If they are truly sorry there would be indications of change. I am talking about people who would say that just to get them to come back... only to do it again and again. I know people who had this very life. After twenty years, is it really repentance? It is just a lie and manipulation.

 

[desi]

That is not respentant, thats manipulative. If they are truly sorry there would be indications of change. I am talking about people who would say that just to get them to come back... only to do it again and again. I know people who had this very life. After twenty years, is it really repentance? It is just a lie and manipulation.

So now you claim to be able to see into the hearts of others? How many saints are there who changed their ways late in life. Read up on Paul.

 

[ceres]

So now you claim to be able to see into the hearts of others? How many saints are there who changed their ways late in life. Read up on Paul.

From where you sit it is so easy to say "stay with someone who abuses you" but I know personally two women who did it for twenty five years and they became messes. In the end they had to leave, and now, I can see healing begin. I do believe they made the right choice. If that doesn't fit into your box of theology I am sorry, may I take the sins for them. Beat me up, I don't care. I care about them. I only want to see these people happy and healing and if that cannot happen with their lying husbands then they need to go..... disclaimer: only IF and in extreme situations

 

[desi]

From where you sit it is so easy to say "stay with someone who abuses you" but I know personally two women who did it for twenty five years and they became messes. In the end they had to leave, and now, I can see healing begin. I do believe they made the right choice. If that doesn't fit into your box of theology I am sorry, may I take the sins for them. Beat me up, I don't care. I care about them. I only want to see these people happy and healing and if that cannot happen with their lying husbands then they need to go..... disclaimer: only IF and in extreme situations

Okay your friends are safe, good for them. What about the next women their exhusbands hook up with? Giving up such a marriage solves nothing, it merely transfers the problem to other people.

 

[ukok]

oh, i was SO trying to stay out of this thread!

Tell me, would you be an adherent to the view that a woman must stay with a physically, emotionally, psychologically abusive husband? What if the husband is abusive to the children of that marriage?

Are you saying that a woman should remain in a marriage where by the part of the wedding vows ..."till death do you part", might take on a very real meaning?

If you answer that yes, the woman should remain in such a marriage, then are you not condoning possible murder/ or the suicide of the female that may be driven to the brink of despair?

 

[desi]

oh, i was SO trying to stay out of this thread!

Tell me, would you be an adherent to the view that a woman must stay with a physically, emotionally, psychologically abusive husband? What if the husband is abusive to the children of that marriage?

Are you saying that a woman should remain in a marriage where by the part of the wedding vows ..."till death do you part", might take on a very real meaning?

If you answer that yes, the woman should remain in such a marriage, then are you not condoning possible murder/ or the suicide of the female that may be driven to the brink of despair?

I am saying the Bible is right without exception with regard to divorce. If a woman knows she is in an abusive relationship she should use legal and social avenues to put pressure on the man to change his ways. If she simply leaves him she is partially responsible for how he behaves with the next woman he abuses.

 

[ukok]

I am saying the Bible is right without exception with regard to divorce. If a woman knows she is in an abusive relationship she should use legal and social avenues to put pressure on the man to change his ways. If she simply leaves him she is partially responsible for how he behaves with the next woman he abuses.

what social and legal avenues are you suggesting that the wife of an abuser, uses ?

 

[thekawasakikid]

Guys - this is the problem with legalism. Desi is quoting scripture which refers to 'man' as absolute... does this mean that while man cannot live on bread alone, woman can? Or that Jesus Himself is a liar since He called Himself 'Son of Man' while He clearly was not the son of a man...

I empathise with the 'you women' of this post - in particular (but not restricted to) ceres and cutekid - it seems to me that Desi has chosen an unforgiving and extreme, hardline stance for the sake of provocation rather than enlightenment.

I should've posted this last night but Desi's absolute opinion irritated me to the point that I had to close my browser immediately, for fear of smashing my PC up... no I don't need prayers for my temper.

Interpretations of scripture without consideration of the condition of the heart are what caused the downfall of the Old Law, which in itself was not imperfect, but man's (oops, I mean mankind's) spin on it rendered it unworkable - hence the Christ condemned for working on the Sabbath, etc.

 

[desi]

what social and legal avenues are you suggesting that the wife of an abuser, uses ?

It is illegal to hit people. In many states the state presses charges in spouse abuse cases. Furthermore if the family/friends of an abuser hear about and see the results of the abuse they are likely to come down on the abuser.

 

[desi]

Guys - this is the problem with legalism. Desi is quoting scripture which refers to 'man' as absolute... does this mean that while man cannot live on bread alone, woman can? Or that Jesus Himself is a liar since He called Himself 'Son of Man' while He clearly was not the son of a man...

You are *** u me ing things here which I never addressed.

I empathise with the 'you women' of this post - in particular (but not restricted to) ceres and cutekid - it seems to me that Desi has chosen an unforgiving and extreme, hardline stance for the sake of provocation rather than enlightenment.

The Bible says what it says. If believing it means I take an "unforgiving and extreme, hardline stance for the sake of provocation rather than enlightenment" then I am as guilty as God whom it came from.

I should've posted this last night but Desi's absolute opinion irritated me to the point that I had to close my browser immediately, for fear of smashing my PC up... no I don't need prayers for my temper.

The emotional trauma!

Interpretations of scripture without consideration of the condition of the heart are what caused the downfall of the Old Law, which in itself was not imperfect, but man's (oops, I mean mankind's) spin on it rendered it unworkable - hence the Christ condemned for working on the Sabbath, etc.

Are you saying divorce is just as Godly as healing the sick on the sabbath? Did Jesus not mean what he said about only getting divorces in the case of fornication. I'm sure you're much smarter than him, in your own mind, so you must know his words are open to interpretation.

 

[ukok]

It is illegal to hit people. In many states the state presses charges in spouse abuse cases. Furthermore if the family/friends of an abuser hear about and see the results of the abuse they are likely to come down on the abuser.

I was really expecting something a little more profound.

It is apparant that you have never been in an abusive relationship in which a phone call to the police can cost you another threat to your life.

Your attitude really saddens me.

You have no personal experience of being victimised and yet you wish to tell those of us who have cowered in the corner of a room, like a dog, to'put up' with it.

Phoning the police is not an option when you live with someone who will make you pay in every way for doing such a thing.

I wish that the scales of ignorance could fall from your eyes.

Do you have any idea what it is like to have a small child beg you to take them away from the household in which there is an abuser? Do you have any idea how difficult it is to leave such a violent situation when you aren't even sure if the abuser will let you leave the house alive ?

Do you have any idea of the mental scars that both the wife and the children will carry around with them for the rest of their lives?

Do you have any idea how hard it is for a woman to leave with nothing, when the man has all power over their household, their joint finances etc?

I mean, picture it...no where to go to, nothing!... then there are the years of lawyer's and divorce courts to follow...I wonder, do you really know how bad it can get, because if you did, i don't think you would be speaking from the rather condescending and arrogant stance in which you do.

Your ignorance overwhelms me.

 

[HeatherJay]

Thankfully, I've never been in an abusive situation, but I have to agree that counseling or anger management or pressure from friends and family is not always an adequate solution to the problem of domestic abuse. And it's completely unfair to saddle the victims of such abuse with the responsibility of 'taking one for the team' in order to prevent the next woman from being beaten or emotionally abused. No one deserves to be abused and being married to an abuser shouldn't have to be a life sentence.

Love, Heather

 

[ceres]

And it's completely unfair to saddle the victims of such abuse with the responsibility of 'taking one for the team' in order to prevent the next woman from being beaten or emotionally abused. No one deserves to be abused and being married to an abuser shouldn't have to be a life sentence.

Yes thank you for saying what I was thinking.