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Bible says science cannot possibly know how many years since creation

Discussion in 'Creation & Evolution' started by dad, Feb 28, 2019.

  1. dad

    dad On the winning side Supporter

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    Prophesy in the bible is now mostly history. Done deal. Fulfilled. The bible is proven and tested. As for ancient history, science cannot test whether spirits did exist with men, period. Asking for some test for things long gone is simply foolishness. As for the nature/forces/laws that existed in the past on earth science cannot say. So when the question arise why men lived 1000 years, the usual response from ignoscience groupies is 'lying goat herders had it wrong'
     
  2. Kylie

    Kylie Atheist and Proud

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    So the Bible makes a prophecy and then the Bible says the prophecy was fulfilled.

    Of course, there could be any number of explanations.

    1. The prophecy was written in such vague language that it's just been interpreted to mean the prophecy was fulfilled.
    2. The prophecy was added after the event that is said to have fulfilled it.
    3. The events that allegedly fulfilled the prophecy never really happened, but people wrote it down to make it look like the prophecy was fulfilled.
    4. The prophecy could be about something that was likely to happen anyway.
    How have you determined that none of these is responsible for Bible prophecies?
     
  3. dad

    dad On the winning side Supporter

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    Not understanding Scripture is normal. It requires God's spirit to understand it. Until then a spirit of disbelief exists.
     
  4. Speedwell

    Speedwell Well-Known Member

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    Or maybe just a belief in a different understanding of Scripture. There is nothing necessarily uniquely correct about yours.
     
  5. dad

    dad On the winning side Supporter

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    No. Actually the bible says His spirit quickens, and will bring things to remembrance and opens up scripture. Sorry if you thought we had some need to have you agree. Not in any way. I expect you to disagree with everything.
     
  6. Kylie

    Kylie Atheist and Proud

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    First, this doesn't actually address my points.

    Secondly, it provides an easy excuse to dismiss anyone who doesn't agree with you, because they simply don't understand Scripture.
     
  7. dad

    dad On the winning side Supporter

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    Science has it's understanding darkened by God because they left Him out. Leaving Him out is rejecting Him. So science cannot come to a knowledge of the truth. If it happened to stumble on truth accidentally, it would not recognize it. Naturally man cannot know the end or the beginning. Even when it comes to fulfilled Scripture, you see it it some strange, confused dazed and darkened way. But you should admit, as the OP says, that at least as far as the bible goes, man can't know about actual beginnings or how it will end. By the bible we do know!
     
  8. Kylie

    Kylie Atheist and Proud

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    So you can't actually point out a flaw in the scientific method, so you have to make up something about God stopping it from working for a really petty reason.

    And no, science can't tell us exactly how the universe began, nor exactly how it will end (though we're getting pretty close), but neither can the Bible. You just assume that the Bible can because it makes a claim about it which is unfalsifiable. Unfalsifiable claims are pretty much worthless.
     
  9. Speedwell

    Speedwell Well-Known Member

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    Science has not "left Him out." That would not be possible, considering the number of scientist who are theists. What science has done is to quite reasonably reject the interpretation of Genesis favored by a Protestant minority sect. Not the same thing at all.
     
  10. dad

    dad On the winning side Supporter

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    Not sure I should believe an unbeliever who says God does things for petty reasons.
    False.
    The mere fact science is not equipped to falsify God means nothing.
     
  11. dad

    dad On the winning side Supporter

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    Of course it has.
    We are not talking personal claimed beliefs here. Science leaves God out of creation.
    Jesus and everyone one else in Scripture including angels happens to disagree. This is not about your hatred for other denominations.
     
  12. Speedwell

    Speedwell Well-Known Member

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    Science may leave your God out of creation, it doesn't leave mine out. And I don't remember Jesus or any of the Angels proclaiming that fundamentalist Evangelicals are the only real Christians.
     
  13. dad

    dad On the winning side Supporter

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    Bingo.

    Better to be honest. 'Evangelicals' did not invent creation or the flood or Babel, etc.
     
  14. Speedwell

    Speedwell Well-Known Member

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    But they were the first to promote the idea that belief in those stories as 100% accurate literal history was a de facto requirement for salvation.
     
  15. Kylie

    Kylie Atheist and Proud

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    Yet you still remain unable to point out the flaw in the scientific method.

    You also just said that you will make decisions on your opinion of the person making the statement rather than on the merits of the statement itself.

    And once again you fail utterly to provide any reasoning for this claim.

    But the fact that you can't provide any method by which we can determine the validity of the Bible means a great deal.
     
  16. dad

    dad On the winning side Supporter

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    News to me. I don't see the connection to salvation. Belief is a requirement though, of course. Belief in Jesus.
     
  17. Speedwell

    Speedwell Well-Known Member

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    So why are you generally so unpleasant to and about those who believe in Jesus but not the literal inerrancy of Genesis?
     
  18. dad

    dad On the winning side Supporter

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    Well, on the topic of the OP, the flaw in manscience is that they do not recognize God as creator, so they cannot tell us about when or how the universe or life started.
    There is no merit to blindly doubting all historical and biblical records of spirits and spiritual occurrences. Nor is there merit in trying to use physical only science of the present age to determine the veracity of such records.


    The important factor in a science forum is that science cannot tell us anything about spirits or the records of the past about them. Therefore, one could never hold up science as any judge or authority on the issue.

    Outside the little realm of science, untold hundreds of millions of people have found validity in God's word and presence as a result of that word. So it works. One cannot deny rationally that there is something there.
     
  19. dad

    dad On the winning side Supporter

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    Or vice versa? While salvation is not related to a deep or proper understanding of Scripture, that does not mean that one cannot have a proper understanding. Creation is referred to from cover to cover in the bible in a real way. It is not a sound proposition to divest Scripture from the realities of creation and events recorded in it. Doing so, it is felt by hundreds of millions of bible believers, is destructive to faith for children/mankind. Science is not any way to truth about origins. Science is an elaborate scheme to ignore and reinvent creation.

    A tree is known by the fruits it bears. Science is known by the claims it makes on where man and the world came from. For millions of bible believers, the bible is not up for grabs and negotiable, but is from God and true. Anything that exalts itself against that, or opposes it is the enemy of God and not from God and not God's Spirit. So, while I can understand why some weak in the faith believers could be deluded, I do not support the concept of forcing delusions on kids or embracing them above the word of God that Jesus verified was from God.
     
  20. Speedwell

    Speedwell Well-Known Member

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    Weak in faith? Still being unpleasant, I see. It is almost as if you believed that the only reason to reject a literal reading of Genesis comes from science.
     
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