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Bible Read Thread

Travelers.Soul

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I think Job 3 shines a light on how truly broken and grief stricken Job was. Everything had been stripped away (except his wife and God), his children, his wealth, and his health. These are things we tend to depend on or take for granted, our families, money, and our health. He lost the children he clearly loved and that alone is enough to lay a person low. I think it should be noted that chapter 3 opens up with the phrase "After this" some translations say "Afterward", this is pointing us to a transition. After all that happened in the proceeding chapters this was Job's response. Job regretted being born but more than that he wanted that day completely wiped out. He wished to die because then he could have rest, and his grief/turmoil would cease. The lament of Job is bitter and biting. Toward the end of this chapter we see that Job compares his grief to food and what he most feared had come upon him. When we are in the midst of grief and suffering sometimes we forget that our days were not always troubled or dark. I think that is what was happening to Job. His health was in the gutter, his children were dead, and he lost everything he possessed, as if one of those wouldn't be a shock and a cause of grief, Job had to face all of them. Which of us wouldn't be grief stricken by such occasions? We see a man who believed in God but cannot comprehend his ways or his present predicament. Job was being honest about his confusion and his grief.

In chapter 4 Eliphaz starts off by reminding Job that he has a reason for confidence, his fear of God and his integrity. He points out that those who are righteous are blessed and the wicked receive what they deserve. In other words, if you have suffered it is because you have sinned or if you are blessed it's because you trusted and obeyed. In light of this sort of thinking Eliphaz had no where to place Job. He had never seen or known of any innocent person to suffer. So then Job's suffering must have been punishment for sin. Neither Eliphaz (or later on his friends) had a category for righteous suffering. v. 8 pretty much sums up his view of divine justice. The supposed vision or spiritual encounter agreed with what Eliphaz had already said...a shocker, I know. It is unclear whether this spirit, if he did indeed have a vision, was actually from the Lord or not. Just as there are righteous angels there are also fallen ones. Job's friend wraps up by speaking of the brevity of life and how all men die without wisdom. Wow, what an encouragement Eliphaz was.
 
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SarahsKnight

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In chapter 4 Eliphaz starts off by reminding Job that he has a reason for confidence, his fear of God and his integrity. He points out that those who are righteous are blessed and the wicked receive what they deserve. In other words, if you have suffered it is because you have sinned or if you are blessed it's because you trusted and obeyed. In light of this sort of thinking Eliphaz had no where to place Job. He had never seen or known of any innocent person to suffer. So then Job's suffering must have been punishment for sin. Neither Eliphaz (or later on his friends) had a category for righteous suffering. v. 8 pretty much sums up his view of divine justice.

Ah, Miss Ireland! So that's where you had gone. You simply changed your username. ^_^

I believe your observations of Eliphaz and what he meant in chapter 4 are more on the money than my own. :)
 
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Travelers.Soul

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Ah, Miss Ireland! So that's where you had gone. You simply changed your username. ^_^

I believe your observations of Eliphaz and what he meant in chapter 4 are more on the money than my own. :)
I thought it was time for a change. :ahah: I'm glad my observations were helpful to you.:)
 
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Goodbook

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I dont know miss ireland..i dont think Job was as righteous as he thought he was.
I mean none of us are innocent, we all sin and fall short of his glory. Only Jesus really suffered righteously. In comparison to Job, Jesus did all these miracles, healed the sick, cast out demons, showed compassion for the poor, while Job did a lot of good things, he cant be compared to Jesus. Also Job was born wealthy, Jesus was born in a stable!

Eliphaz had some good points, but job maintained his self righteousness. Thats the beginning of pride.
 
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Travelers.Soul

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I dont know miss ireland..i dont think Job was as righteous as he thought he was.
I mean none of us are innocent, we all sin and fall short of his glory. Only Jesus really suffered righteously. In comparison to Job, Jesus did all these miracles, healed the sick, cast out demons, showed compassion for the poor, while Job did a lot of good things, he cant be compared to Jesus. Also Job was born wealthy, Jesus was born in a stable!

Eliphaz had some good points, but job maintained his self righteousness. Thats the beginning of pride.


You're right we have all fallen short but are you saying that Christians today don't suffer or that saints of old did not suffer? Are you saying that when they do suffer it's always because of some sin they committed? What about people like Paul who suffered? No one claimed Job was like Jesus or that he preformed miracles nor did I compare Job to Jesus. Job's wealth had nothing to do with Jesus' birth.

This is what God says about Job in Job 1(ESV)...“Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?”

God does rightly rebuke Job and Job's friends (Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar) in the end of the book but that does not negate the fact that Job's suffering was not brought about by some heinous sin on Job's part.
 
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Goodbook

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Im saying that jobs suffering was brought on by satan but its not like the suffering Jesus suffered on other peoples behalf to save them. Thats a different kind of suffering. Jesus was cruicified, beaten, mocked, spat on. Job wasnt. All Job had was taken away but his life was not threatened like Jesus was.
Job pretty much lost his fortune, but Jesus willingly became poor for our sakes. And Jesus was killed.

Job wasnt a suffering servant like Jesus was. And Jesus did not once complain, he didnt even open his mouth. So Im just saying. If anyone suffered it was Jesus...for our sakes. I suppose theres a parallel. But its not like Job had no sin and was innocent. Otherwise he wouldnt have needed to repent. Jesus was innocent.
 
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Goodbook

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We all suffer in this life.
But we look to Jesus who suffered on our behalf.
Jobs life was spared..Jesus wasnt.
I think thats what I was saying, that in terms of righteousness, Job was as much a sinner as anyone. Of course God favoured him and knew he would turn to Him, but the point of it was to test or prove his love. Its like if I was a wealthy parent and boasted of my perfectly behaved child. And someone said to me your child only loves you because you are good to him and favour him and give him money and treat him well. . He doesnt love you for you. But because I know my child loves me know matter what, i allow him to be tested, his pocket money gets cut off, his toys are taken away. He gets the measles.
 
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Travelers.Soul

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Goodbook, I think you and I are going to have to just call an end to our discussion on Job. In the end it will derail the thread and I don't want to do that. Thank you for politely disagreeing with me. I don't agree with everything you said or all of the comparisons you made but some things we can agree on.
 
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Swan7

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Isaiah 7:14 Prophecy of the virgin, Mary
Isaiah 9:1-7 Prophecy about Jesus.
Isaiah 10: 5-13 Sounds a lot like what ISIS did by blowing up these ancient ruins and destruction of idols, I think in Syria. Perhaps God even used those men to get rid of the idols?
 
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Goodbook

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Oh ok i just dont agree with your interpretation and thats fine, we dont have to agree on everything, but really think about what you are saying and reading.
We havent read the whole book yet together. So I may be jumping ahead, but Job definitely does admit hes a sinner, in the later chapters. For christians this is the MOST important thing, to admit we are sinners, even if we think our sin isnt as heinous as other peoples but to God, all sin is sin.
 
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Goodbook

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Lots of prophecies in Isaiah about Jesus which are fulfilled and being fulfiled right now.

What struck me about these chapters in Isisiah is that he is constantly stressing how its the children who will lead the way.
 
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SarahsKnight

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We're already getting an earful of Jesus' ministry here in just these two chapters, aren't we? Healing the sick and demon-possessed, going through a personal trial alone for forty days with Satan tempting Him (although of course I am certain it was pre-destined that Jesus would endure :)), taking on four of the twelve disciples already under His leadership - Simon, Andrew, James, and John - and even getting John the Baptist to baptize Him. He's already done more here than most of us believers do in a lifetime - even if, of course, you equivocated Jesus' healing the sick with our typical mortal methods of giving emotional care to the sick in their times of pain and distress, because I doubt any of us here were able to magically take away anyone's debilitating disease. ^_^

John the Baptist also cuts an impressive figure here in Judea, himself, baptizing multitudes who come to him at the Jordan River, even despite him wearing the meager attire of someone you imagine hangs about in the wilderness a lot.^_^ I have always really liked the commanding way in which John virtually heralds Jesus' arrival:
“As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."

I tell you, when a guy who has many gathered before him despite wearing nothing but a garment of camel's hair held up by a leather belt speaks like that, you listen. :)


I do not have a definite stance either way on the preterism vs futurism debate that is popular among believers, but I would like to make it known my observation that John the Baptist's words in the first half of chapter 3 appears to indicate preterism ("You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Therefore bear fruit in keeping with repentance", and "Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand"), as I find it difficult to imagine that he would use phrases like "at hand" and "the wrath to come" when he is addressing a specific group of people who of course will only live several more decades at most to see this kingdom of heaven, and now it is 2000 years later and the Rapture has not occurred. But that is just my observation. Like I said before, I found the subject of preterism vs futurism to be a much more difficult thing to grasp and reach a satisfactory conclusion on, even after reading through that entire book that @Hawthorne recommended to me once, called Revelation: Four Views.
 
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Goodbook

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I might have read that one, or aomething similar, about book of revelation and the four different interpretations.

I havent decided on what camp I am most in but I know at least two are wrong and unbiblical.
I think there is both a spiritual and a historical application of revelation, relevent to the time it was written and relevent for all time. So two are correct. Maybe its a blend of both.

Just today reading about babylon, it occured to me Jerusalem got taken over by babylonians and thats what it was referring to, the destruction of the temple in ad 70 when it talks about the harlot of babylon, because Jerusalem kings did fornicate with babylonians. John was very much witnessing the end of the age, in so far as jerusalem was concerned, which is why a NEW jerusalem is seen at the end. But we dont see it now, because the Gentile nations havent all come in yet. Its under construction.
 
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