Bible and science?

[dad]

He's only one God. You're confusing the three persons in God, with three Gods. That's wrong.

Remember, the Trinity is just one God; the only God there is, not the many gods dad thinks exist.

Since I was obviously talking about the demons and false gods you are being slanderous and dishonest.

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
The Founders installed the Bill of Rights in 1791. But it didn't kick God out of education or government; it merely kicked government out of the religion business. My daughter was an officer in the Fellowship of Christian athletes. They prayed by the flagpole on a regular basis, and met to pray during the school day. They were free to do so, but the school was not free to initiate religious practices. Which is the way it should be. Jesus told us that God neither wants nor needs government support.

The child sacrificing, Christ rejecting, pagan governments simply are not preaching or even allowing the gospel for the most part.

I never thought of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes as "child sacrificing" or "Christ rejecting." So I'm thinking that maybe this is where you got confused. FCA is perfectly legal and a way of worshiping Christ within public schools.

Now if you find that 'christian' fine,

Worshiping Christ is what we do.

I don't really care what people who wave away the bible think.

I care what you think. I'm just not willing to go along with you waving away the Bible.

Barbarian observes:
Evangelicals are having a crisis of behavior. They divorce more frequently than other people, even more than atheists. The view from one concerned evangelical Christian:

Scandalous behavior is rapidly destroying American Christianity. By their daily activity, most "Christians" regularly commit treason. With their mouths they claim that Jesus is Lord, but with their actions they demonstrate allegiance to money, sex, and self-fulfillment...Divorce is more common among "born-again" Christians than in the general American population. Only 6 percent of evangelicals tithe. White evangelicals are the most likely people to object to neighbors of another race. Josh McDowell has pointed out that the sexual promiscuity of evangelical youth is only a little less outrageous than that of their nonevangelical peers.

Guess they needed salvation eh?

And evangelical denominations aren't doing it for them.

You are perfect?

Far from it. But I didn't betray and divorce my wife. And I didn't engage in sexual assault. I don't object to people of different races. You see, my denomination considers those things to be unChristian. Sorry about yours.

Do you not see that your unbelief of the bible basics is why evangelicals are doing so poorly as Christians?

If you want to spend eternity with Jesus, act the way He told to be.

 

[nolidad]

"Six 24 hour days" is your revison of God's word. It never says that.



Luke 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.

So, in the Bible 'world' means 'the Roman Empire.' And of course, the Bible never says there was a global flood. That's your attempt to make the Bible more acceptable to you.



Why do you think God needed to tell Adam how old the world is? Again, why not just be happy with His word as it is?



Jesus never said how old the world is. And why would you consider Jews to be stupid? Maybe they're smarter than you think they are.

Well it does and to sday it doesn't is your revision so you can can scratch you itching ears!

But "8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day."

is very specific! a 24 hour day!

Yes worlkd has many meanings! Context determines it precise definition. If you had any study in sound hernmeneutics you would know that!


You : " And of course, the Bible never says there was a global flood. That's your attempt to make the Bible more acceptable to you."

Another prevarication of the truth!

Genesis 7:
18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.

19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.

20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

You may reject the flood- but to say the Bible does not declare a global flood in its language is
disingenuous at best, and something far more sinister at worst.

 

[The Barbarian]

Barbarian observes:
As you learned, divorce, violence and racism is more common among evangelicals than among Americans generally. So maybe their revision of Genesis wasn't such a good idea.

(claims to have been a "staunch evolutionist")

I would like to believe you. But since you've repeatedly demonstrated that you don't know even the most basic things about evolution or evolutionary theory, that's very hard to believe.

And I have learned 0 from you.

It's possible. Some people are very resistant to learning.

You boast yourself some superior teacher

I did? (Barbarian checks) Nope. I didn't. My department chair thought so, years ago, but I didn't say so.

because you can write a line.

Being able to write clearly is an advantage, yes.

I know more of the evangelical community probably far more than you do!

Don't tell me. Tell the evangelical leader who wrote that lament about how evangelicals are failing God.

 

[The Barbarian]

But "8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day."

is very specific! a 24 hour day!

"24 hour day" was your revision of His word.

Yes worlkd has many meanings! Context determines it precise definition. If you had any study in sound hernmeneutics you would know that!

Everyone says that. You use "context" to justify the changes you made to his word.

And of course, the Bible never says there was a global flood. That's your attempt to make the Bible more acceptable to you.

Another prevarication of the truth!

Genesis 7:
18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.

19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.

20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

Your confusion is in the word that was translated as "earth." "Eretz" can mean "dirt", "my land", "this nation", "hereabouts", and so on. What it doesn't mean, is "global." Indeed, at that time, the Israelites had no concept of the earth as a globe. They still thought of it as a flat surface, which was covered by the dome of the firmament, with openings in it, through which rain could fall.

You may reject God's word in this, but to say the Bible declares a global flood in its language is
clearly wrong.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Yahuweh (God Almighty Creator of All Life and all the universe)
Himself
says the flood was global , over the whole earth, and destroyed all life on earth.

Only those in the ARK were saved.

 

[The Barbarian]

Yahuweh (God Almighty Creator of All Life and all the universe)
Himself
says the flood was global

"Global" is your addition to scripture. Stop trying to improve it; just accept it as it is.

over the whole earth, and destroyed all life on earth.

The word you use, is actually "eretz." It is used to describe the land given to the Israelites... "eretz Israel" the land of Israel.

There is neither scriptural support, nor evidence for your revision of scripture.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

"Global" is your addition to scripture.

nor evidence for your revision of scripture.

No, not at all - I didn't quote Scripture, nor have any addition to Scripture, nor have any revision of Scripture.

Ergo, your statement(s) are quite in error, with wrong assumption(s).

 

[nolidad]

"24 hour day" was your revision of His word.



Everyone says that. You use "context" to justify the changes you made to his word.

And of course, the Bible never says there was a global flood. That's your attempt to make the Bible more acceptable to you.

Another prevarication of the truth!

Genesis 7:
18 And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.

19 And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.

20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

22 All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

Your confusion is in the word that was translated as "earth." "Eretz" can mean "dirt", "my land", "this nation", "hereabouts", and so on. What it doesn't mean, is "global." Indeed, at that time, the Israelites had no concept of the earth as a globe. They still thought of it as a flat surface, which was covered by the dome of the firmament, with openings in it, through which rain could fall.

You may reject God's word in this, but to say the Bible declares a global flood in its language is
clearly wrong.

You : "Indeed, at that time, the Israelites had no concept of the earth as a globe. They still thought of it as a flat surface, which was covered by the dome of the firmament, with openings in it, through which rain could fall."

Once again you are ignorant of the bible.
1. There were no Israelite's at the time of Noah.
YOu only impose that from the pagan cultures onto the Scriptures and not from the Scriptures themselves.

You are correct that eretz can mean a spot of land, dirt, Israel empires nations or the whole world. As you learned- context determines its precise meaning.

But as God was inspiring this writing He made sure we would know it was global! vse. 19 the whole heaven!

Wherever the shamayim was- the waters prevailed! Now if you want to argue that only teh area around Noah had a shamayim- Lets hear it!

Well before I play with your little word games anymore, I asked a question that needs an answer.

Do you believe that Jesus Christ is eternal God with His Father?

 

[dad]

Barbarian observes:
The Founders installed the Bill of Rights in 1791. But it didn't kick God out of education or government; it merely kicked government out of the religion business. My daughter was an officer in the Fellowship of Christian athletes. They prayed by the flagpole on a regular basis, and met to pray during the school day. They were free to do so, but the school was not free to initiate religious practices. Which is the way it should be. Jesus told us that God neither wants nor needs government support.

Probably in the time they took to play the game and praying there, millions of kids were in schools where it was forbidden, and hundreds in the USA were ritualistically murdered in abortions.

I never thought of the Fellowship of Christian Athletes as "child sacrificing" or "Christ rejecting."

I never thought of exceptions as being the rule.

So I'm thinking that maybe this is where you got confused. FCA is perfectly legal and a way of worshiping Christ within public schools.

You are getting off topic, sorry, God was kicked out long ago for the most part, in the west.

White evangelicals are the most likely people to object to neighbors of another race.

?? Racist? Why pick on one color?? Do you think there is love of all colors in Spanish town LA or some ghettos etc?

Josh McDowell has pointed out that the sexual promiscuity of evangelical youth is only a little less outrageous than that of their nonevangelical peers.

Mary had a problem with that too, Jesus got her through. I would be more worried about their kids in religious daycares!

But I think we get it, you have a grudge against 'white people' and anyone who rejects your decrepid old church system.

Far from it. But I didn't betray and divorce my wife. And I didn't engage in sexual assault.

Bully for you. At least you (claim to have) kept a few commandments. Too bad if you break one thing it breaks em all eh?

I don't object to people of different races.

Great...why would you? P

Do you not see that your unbelief of the bible basics is why evangelicals are doing so poorly as Christians?

Trying to word unbelief cleverly is no cover for outright rejection of Scripture on issues of creation and history of the fathers.

If you want to spend eternity with Jesus, act the way He told to be.

No one needs your church or rules to have eternal life actually. Not sure why creation (as per the bible) deniers feel anyone would listen to anything they have to say about the bible or faith...?

 

[The Barbarian]

Probably in the time they took to play the game and praying there, millions of kids were in schools where it was forbidden

It's not forbidden. Courts have repeatedly upheld the right of students to have Bibles, wear religious articles and to pray in school. Government is forbidden to do any of that for the students, but they can do it for themselves, which is the way it should be.

I never thought of exceptions as being the rule.

They have the same right in every public school in America.

You are getting off topic, sorry, God was kicked out long ago for the most part, in the west.

No, that's wrong. The courts have always upheld the religious rights of students.

White evangelicals are the most likely people to object to neighbors of another race.

?? Racist? Why pick on one color??

Moral flaw. As you see, evangelicals are having a crisis, in which they have fallen away from Christian values.

But I think we get it, you have a grudge against 'white people'

Other than describing myself in my profile as a crabby old white guy, how do you figure that? You brought up white people here, not me. So what's your problem with white people that would make you suddenly bring them up?

and anyone who rejects your decrepid old church system.

Being Catholic, I don't reject the validity of other denominations. That's a pretty good clue that someone doesn't really get what Jesus wants from us.

(Barbarian notes that he doesn't behave the way that article showed evangelicals behaving)

Bully for you. At least you (claim to have) kept a few commandments. Too bad if you break one thing it breaks em all eh?

You seem to be hung up on incidentals of scripture, while denying what the Bible and church fathers tell you about God. Trying to word unbelief cleverly is no cover for outright rejection of Scripture on issues of creation and history of the fathers.

No one needs your church or rules to have eternal life actually.

That's true. Being Christian, I don't resent other denominations. They are open to God's saving grace as well.

Your denial of creation as God shows it in Genesis is not something that will send you to hell, but I'm not sure why creation (as per the bible) deniers feel anyone would listen to anything they have to say about the bible or faith.

 

[The Barbarian]

Indeed, at that time, the Israelites had no concept of the earth as a globe. They still thought of it as a flat surface, which was covered by the dome of the firmament, with openings in it, through which rain could fall."

Once again you are ignorant of the bible.
1. There were no Israelite's at the time of Noah.

If you said there were, then one of us did. I'm just pointing out that the Israelites who wrote down Genesis did not think the Earth was a globe.

You are correct that eretz can mean a spot of land, dirt, Israel empires nations or the whole world. As you learned- context determines its precise meaning.

For you, "context" seems to be "I can change it, if I don't like what it says."

Do you believe that Jesus Christ is eternal God with His Father?

You should know that, if you claim to be a Christian. Do you not know what the Trinity is?

By the Council of Nicea, this was settled. Have you never seen this:

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come.

The Filioque is not used by the Eastern Orthodox, but it's a theological detail, that doesn't change what the Creed says about the Father and the Son . Maybe a little study would help.

 

[dad]

It's not forbidden. Courts have repeatedly upheld the right of students to have Bibles, wear religious articles and to pray in school. Government is forbidden to do any of that for the students, but they can do it for themselves, which is the way it should be.

When they learn demonic evo nonsense and get advice on same sex marriages and abortion and etc etc..not sure wearing some lapel pin would help.

White evangelicals are the most likely people to object to neighbors of another race.

I'd take that with a grain of salt.

Moral flaw. As you see, evangelicals are having a crisis, in which they have fallen away from Christian values.

Jesus is the Christian value.

Being Catholic, I don't reject the validity of other denominations. That's a pretty good clue that someone doesn't really get what Jesus wants from us.

Yet you railed against protestants and evangelicals. Enjoy your charade.

(Barbarian notes that he doesn't behave the way that article showed evangelicals behaving)

Guess you better thank God you are not like those sinners? Ha

Bully for you. At least you (claim to have) kept a few commandments. Too bad if you break one thing it breaks em all eh?

You seem to be hung up on incidentals of scripture, while denying what the Bible and church fathers tell you about God. Trying to word unbelief cleverly is no cover for outright rejection of Scripture on issues of creation and history of the fathers.

Church fathers can take a hike.

Your denial of creation as God shows it in Genesis is ...

Just because I actually believe in the flood and creation week and Adam and Eve etc does not constitute denial of Genesis. You some sort of troll?

 

[trophy33]

It makes God a lying nincompoop who can't get His word right.

You have a very wrong definition of lies, if you think that symbols or simplifications for children are lies.

 

[trophy33]

Not sure what you think your point was. There are many gods and demons and false gods. There is only One true God...Jesus.

God is only one, the rest of "gods" are false gods, as you also realized. Which makes them not to be gods. A false king is not a king.

 

[dad]

You have a very wrong definition of lies, if you think that symbols or simplifications for children are lies.

No. Clearly the bible tells of creation week, and how the earth was here first, and how life got here. Trying to cram evo/bb into that is actually akin to blasphemy.

 

[dad]

God is only one, the rest of "gods" are false gods, as you also realized. Which makes them not to be gods. A false king is not a king.

Bad kings are still kings. Fallen angels are still not human.

The gods of the nations are idols/demons

Psalms 96:5 For all the gods of the nations are demons; but the lord made the heavens.

Plenty of them and about to be a whole lot more.

 

[trophy33]

No. Clearly the bible tells of creation week, and how the earth was here first, and how life got here. Trying to cram evo/bb into that is actually akin to blasphemy.

5-years old girl:
"God made me."

A scientist:
"Actually, your daddy and mommy made you, sperm, fertilization, egg, ovulation...."

Who is lying? Right, nobody. Both are right. What is different? The person who is describing it. Moses was not a 21st century scientist.

 

[trophy33]

Bad kings are still kings. Fallen angels are still not human.

The gods of the nations are idols/demons

Psalms 96:5 For all the gods of the nations are demons; but the lord made the heavens.

Plenty of them and about to be a whole lot more.

"False" does not mean "bad".

A false king means he only pretends to be a king. There is only one God, you should know that.

 

[nolidad]

Indeed, at that time, the Israelites had no concept of the earth as a globe. They still thought of it as a flat surface, which was covered by the dome of the firmament, with openings in it, through which rain could fall."



If you said there were, then one of us did. I'm just pointing out that the Israelites who wrote down Genesis did not think the Earth was a globe.



For you, "context" seems to be "I can change it, if I don't like what it says."



You should know that, if you claim to be a Christian. Do you not know what the Trinity is?

By the Council of Nicea, this was settled. Have you never seen this:

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come.

The Filioque is not used by the Eastern Orthodox, but it's a theological detail, that doesn't change what the Creed says about the Father and the Son . Maybe a little study would help.

You: "If you said there were, then one of us did. I'm just pointing out that the Israelites who wrote down Genesis did not think the Earth was a globe."

that is you placing your wishes on Scripture.

No I keep words in context- it is you relying on future secular believers in evolutionism and historians who impose their decisions on Scripture.

As for the nicene credd.

I did not ask what I believed- I asked you a simple question do you believe the creed?

All it requires is a simple YES or NO! All the rest is just verbal methane!