Beware of demons.

[Dave-W]

That should be a secondary consideration. The point to note is that animals can be demon-possessed or Satan possessed.

Not "possessed." Demonized. Demonically attached.

 

[Dave-W]

We can only go by Scripture, where we see:
5. Paroxysms

What exactly do you mean by that term? (I understand the Hippocratic definition)
Where exactly is it in scripture? (chapter and verse)

 

[Dave-W]

do animals have actual 'souls'?

unknown.

 

[Basil the Great]

Mental disorders no doubt have a variety of causes. Some come from chemical imbalances in the brain and/or the body. Some are brought about by severe traumatic events experienced in childhood, like sexual abuse or physical abuse, etc. Some may come from how we are raised by our parents or how we are treated by in school.

 

[Hillsage]

Discernment can only come by revelation from the Holy Spirit.

I would caution you in the use of the term "possessed." It indicates ownership and is biblically inaccurate for most cases. The only instance in the NT of the Greek actually supporting "possession" is the slave girl in acts 16.

The bible has no direct definition of a demon so giving one more than what the bible says is pointless.

What we DO know is that:

They seek to inhabit a body, (meaning apparently they themselves do NOT have bodies).
They are under command of the devil,
Many can attach themselves to (or inhabit) a single person. (ref "Legion")
They have names descriptive of their function: divination, infirmity, deaf, etc.
They have some kind of "pecking order," thus giving rise to the "strong man" of Mark 3.
They can speak thru the person they are attached to.
They can cause physical symptoms and actions.


It requires the gift of discerning of spirits to truly understand what they are doing and how they are attached to every individual.

I would theorize that the many cases of "past lives" may actually be cases of demonic attachment where the unclean spirit puts memories of its own past inhabitations into the mind of the present host. It could also account for some cases of gender dysphoria.

EDIT: I'm kind of catching up here having just started the thread;

I agreed with almost your whole post and have decided that the briefest definition which I like is that "demons are disembodied spirits which desire to manifest their nature (type of spirit) in this physical world which requires a physical body." And 'I think' they do so through human bodies or animal, as with the herd of pigs. Their ultimate goal though is always to "steal, kill, destroy" the things of God, from manifesting in a person, or their life.

I do disagree with your comment on the Acts 16 girl. Most translations correctly say she 'having/had' a spirit of divination though. I think KJV did injustice to the Greek word 'echo' which is in the NT over 500 times and only translated 'possessed' 2X. If anything, she '(echo) to hold/possessed ' the demon, as opposed to it possessing her. She was demonized, but not possessed IMO. As to your comment concerning "memories of past in habitations" I think you are also right on. We've been taught that those are 'familiar spirits'....or spirits familiar with another, to whom they'd been assigned 'for life' before they finally died and the demon/spirit was given an new human assignment.

 

[Hillsage]

And that is the problem. How can you tell when there is one inside a given body?

I think that DAVE answered that question when he said it might just take a revelational gifting from the Holy Spirit to discern. I know that Paul walked around for several days listening to the woman with the spirit of divination prophesy true things, before he finally discerned this was demonic and cast it out. I only suppose that the sophistry of this demon so deceived Paul that it took him some time to seek God for a 'spiritual discernment' concerning her. Otherwise it seems odd that the Holy Spirit wouldn't have warned Paul the first time she spoke.

I am curious as to why you and Dave both think that dealing with demonic activity is some 'special' calling though?

 

[Job8]

Not "possessed." Demonized. Demonically attached.

Demonic possession means that the demon has entered into the individual, not "attached" as a separate entity sitting on the shoulder.

 

[Dave-W]

Demonic possession means that the demon has entered into the individual, not "attached" as a separate entity sitting on the shoulder.

Spirits by definition do not exist exclusively in our time/space world; they are more creatures of something beyond that. So terms like "entered," "in," "into," and "out" may not have much meaning.

 

[Hillsage]

That actually makes 'more sense'. That a demon could 'attach' itself to an animal to 'move about' than actually possess an animal. For do animals have actual 'souls'?

When God created Adam it says 'God breathed into Adam the 'breath of life' and Adam became a 'living soul'. Was this the case with 'animals'? Did God create in animals: living souls?

Blessings,

MEC

In Genesis 1 and 2 it is the very same words in Hebrew ('chay nephesh') which are translated as "living creatures" for animals, and as "living soul" for Adam.

 

[Hillsage]

exactly. But if the answer is 'no', then it becomes apparent that animals are not 'possessed' by demons, demons merely attach themselves to animals as a means of transportation or basic survival. Using animals to 'get to' their natural hosts.

Blessings,

MEC

IMO The pigs didn't dive into the sea to drown, so that the demons who were cast OUT could "get to their natural hosts". They drove the pigs into the sea to kill them and fulfill the ultimate goal of all demonic activity...."steal KILL destroy"...IMO. I think their highest 'calling' would have been to have the demoniac commit suicide by drowning himself. A 'calling', which may have happened, had not JESUS happened first.

 

[Church2u2]

I have always believed that Ted Bundy and John Wayne Gacey were demon possessed and any other serial killer that not only ate human flesh but had sex with a dead body must have been demon possessed.

 

[Vicomte13]

I have already discussed my understanding of 'mental disorders' mostly being 'demon' inspired. Not going to go back and talk about it 'again'.

But I will point out that there are more people on 'mental medications' today than any time in history. We are a 'people' of 'mental disorders' today. Not going to quote statistics. Anyone that has an interest, a true interest, already knows what I'm talking about and that what I speak concerning 'numbers' is truth.

But what I want to focus on in this thread is: what about those that 'think' they are mentally competent but in truth are just 'hiding' their mental issues? Not everyone with mental issues are on medication. Not all with mental issues have sought any sort of 'help' from the medical community. So that means that there are 'many' with mental issues no one but themselves and those closest to them are aware of.

To me, it is utterly apparent that during the time of Christ, those possessed of 'evil spirits' or 'demons' were considered 'insane'. The man who's son fell into fire and water would certainly be considered 'insane' by today's standards of diagnosis. Yet the Bible tells us that the child was possessed of 'evil spirits'.

Legion was considered 'insane' as well. Yet we see that after Christ 'cast out the demons', they were seen talking together and Legion was by all accounts, perfectly 'normal'.

So what are 'mental disorders'? Are they really 'medical conditions' or merely foreign influence of one's 'mind'?

Over and over we hear the stories of the mother who says she was 'told by God' to kill her children in order to 'save them'. Not 'one' story. MANY. The legal system and medical community call these people 'delusional' and 'mentally ill'.

I won't deny the diagnosis. But the medical community continually insists that the 'mental disorders' suffered by these people are simply problems with their 'brains'. Is this 'really' the proper diagnosis?

Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, (or syndrome), as of late, has been extensively studied. The information obtained is 'showing' that those that suffer from this disorder have literal 'brain disorders'. That what they were exposed to due to the stress and shock they experienced have literally 'altered' their brains. Their brains when compared to each other show similar patterns of activity that do not exist in others who do not suffer from the syndrome.

This means that we can 'experience' things that can literally 'alter' the way our brains work. Not merely a 'mental condition', but a literal 'altering of the functioning of one's brain'.

Think about this: A person can simply 'experience' intense emotions and that experience has the potential to actually 'alter' the way their brain functions.

What if? What if demons, once one allows them to make a 'place' in their minds and hearts, have the potential, over time, to DO this very thing: Like PTSS, they can literally cause the 'altering' of one's 'brain'? As one 'relinquishes' their own control of their mind, hands it over to a 'demon or demons', those demons have the potential to actually 'alter' their minds and hearts?

We continually hear the stories of those that commit the most atrocious crimes that are almost identical. They start with, "I don't know what happened. It's like I snapped and 'lost control'. Or, 'It was like I was 'outside' my body and I was watching myself pull the trigger'.

Or course, law enforcement would shudder at the mere 'thought' that they may be telling the 'truth'. For if they are ''telling the truth'', they would be considered 'not responsible' for their own behavior. This could cause some major problems in attempting to 'try' them. For how does one find someone 'guilty' of something they have 'no control over'?

The medical community would NEVER consider what I'm offering for there is 'no money' in treating someone with 'demons' instead of insisting that their 'mental issues' are merely a matter of chemistry. Yet no amount of medicine ever 'cures' anyone. The medication merely interrupts electrical signals basically 'cutting off' certain brain functions. Once one 'stops' taking their medication, we often witness that their problems are worse than when they started taking medication.

So what if. What if 'demons' are able to literally alter 'brain chemistry' or 'brain function'? When we witness people that we call 'insane', they are merely under the influence of demons and demons that have the capacity, over time, to literally alter the functioning of the host's brain? Their 'minds' or their 'hearts'?

The Bible tells us that we need to remain continuously on guard against the 'wiles of the Devil'. I find it safe to assume that demons, being minions of the Devil, are merely one functioning 'part' of the 'wiles of the Devil'. That Satan 'uses' his demons to influence those that 'allow' them the opportunity.

And by 'allowing', it means that is through a lack of vigilance that one becomes 'infected', (possessed), by 'evil spirits', (demons), Only when one 'lets down their guard' is it possible to be 'possessed'. But once possessed, one 'must do' certain 'things' in order to rid themselves of these parasites. They 'don't just go away' of their own choice. Not until they have accomplished what they 'came for'. And that is the destruction of the 'host's soul'.

For we are warned that we need not fear those capable of taking our physical lives, but that which is able to destroy our very SOULS. So there is no doubt that our 'souls can be destroyed'. The Bible says so.

And how is one's soul destroyed? By doing something that they cannot forgive themselves for. For we are forgiven as we are able to forgive. And if one is incapable of forgiving, they they cannot be forgiven. That too is what the Bible says.

Many will disagree due to the 'teachings of their churches'. But the Bible states that if you DO NOT FORGIVE, you WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN. The most important part of the plan of Salvation is 'forgiveness'. You cannot practice true love without forgiveness. And you cannot receive Salvation without being able to 'love God and your neighbor'. Christ Himself stated that the 'most important commandment' is to 'love God' and the second is 'love your neighbor'. And He also stated that to 'love God' is to follow His commandments'. The most important 'act' of faith is 'love'. That means that 'saying' you believe means 'nothing'. it's what you DO that matters. What you 'do' that produces the 'fruit' of your faith. Saying you are a believer? Even Satan is a believer in Christ. He hates Him. The demons shudder at His name. Following is the ONLY fruit of the 'Spirit'. It's not what you 'say', that makes you a follower of God through Christ, it's what you "DO".

With these things in mind, what happens when one 'lets down their guard' that they have been instructed to 'keep up at all times'? They basically leave the front door WIDE open. Not only 'unlatched' or 'unlocked', but WIDE OPEN. May as well verbally 'invite them in'. And once in, they are like any other parasite: awful hard to get rid of. For they obviously NEED a host in order to 'survive' or to be 'satisfied' with their very existence.

I know, crazy right? Hmmmm...........If you call accepting what the Bible offers 'crazy'? Then indeed. According to the 'world around us'. Absolutely. But according to the Bible, nothing I have offered contradicts what it offers. In fact, what I have offered is much more Biblical than the idea that people are 'born crazy'.

And think about this: If demons are very difficult to get rid of, what happens if one doesn't even recognize their own demons? Or if society in general is not 'taught' to recognize them? But instead, is encouraged to believe something entirely 'different' than the 'truth'? Oh my. See where this is heading? How would one be 'able' to know what I'm offering if everything that exists in this world is PUSHING to hide it? Influencing all but God's very elect to ignore the 'truth' and follow that which is 'false'.?

Think about this too: Why are there 'so many different denominations'? What is the "INFLUENCE"? Certainly it isn't God influencing men to divide themselves into 'different denominations'. Especially when we can clearly see that many of these denominations are completely and utterly contrary to the 'truth'.

I'm going to let this be digested before continuing any furthers. And I'm sure I've offered enough to keep the skeptics coming for days. LOL.

Blessings,

MEC

First, most of what you are saying is true in its essence.

Now some precisions.

First, the "soul" - the nephesh - is the union of breath (which is spirit - same word) and physical body. When a spirit is bound with a body, that IS a "soul". The word "nephesh" in Hebrew, which is translated as "soul", is literally the word "breather". Breath is spirit, so dirt (organized as flesh) which breathes (has the spirit breathed into it by the Father) IS a soul.

That's why the expression about an airplane, that it has "127 souls on board" is precisely correct. The soul is the body+spirit that walks around. When we die, our spirit departs our body and goes on, to Gehenna or Gan Eden, while the body falls back to dirt. At the resurrection, body and spirit are reunited, and a living breather - a soul - comes to be again. Fail final judgment, and you're pitched alive - living soul - a breather - into the Lake of Fire. Pass, and you walk, as a soul - a spirit bound with a body - into the City of God.

In English, the word "soul" comes from an Old Norse word meaning "bound together", so the understanding of what a "soul" is, originally was in our language.

With time, we have come to confuse soul with spirit, and speak now of the soul as though it were a spirit. That's fine, if that's the word we want to use. But we can't then apply that to the Scripture we read, because whenever we read "soul" - nephesh - in the Scripture, that's a breather: a body bound to a spirit. It is never a free-floating spirit, the way we use "soul".

It's easiest if we are precise and speak of spirit - as the breath/mind component, from God, body - as the thing made of flesh, which is made of dirt, and soul - as the living, breathing body, the body bound with the spirit. If we use words just precisely like that, then our usage will match the ancient Hebrew, and most of the ancient Greek. That's how the Scriptures use the words, and when they are used right, a lot of confusion recedes.

Now then, as to demons. Demons are spirits also. Some might say they are fallen "angels", but "angel" is not perforce a particular kind of spirit. The word aggelos in Greek (pronounced "angelos") means "messenger" - so an angel is, by that word, a messenger spirit. It can even be God himself - "God's angel" - God's messenger speaks sometimes as God. Because the word means "messenger" the actual species of the speaker may not always be the same.

In some parts of the Scriptures, different orders of spiritual beings are discussed - cherubs, seraphs, powers, thrones, etc. Also demons, and Satan himself, and Asmodeus (another spirit, perhaps Satan by another name). That there are spirit beings - literal "extraterrestrials" that are NOT, however, "breathers" - souls - because they are not bound to a body - this is clear throughout both testaments.

And it is true. Many people have seen and experienced contact, benign and malign, with various spirits. God warns the Hebrews not to go looking for contact with spirits, to channel them. That doesn't mean that spirits can't come looking for us - and they do.

Demons are a particular class of spirit - a malign one. Some are more malignant than others, certainly.

Little children have guardian angels to protect them, but the fact of sin weakens the guard. Things that alter the mind - alcohol, drugs in particular - also weaken the guard. In olden times, wayward spirits - fallen angels, perhaps? - took sufficient form to actually mate with human females and have children - the nephilim. Whether or not that can still happen today, or whether God has put a guard upon mankind to prevent THAT from continuing to happen: unknown.

Certainly demons - malign spirits can get inside the soul (remember: that's the spirit-body combo). Breaking the shield, weakening the resistance, sexual sin, things that are powerful emotions - these thrust a vulnerable soul out there with a hole in the armor - and a demon can enter. Unguarded, eventually one or more will.

What happens then depends on the nature of the demon, the DEMON'S purpose. People's vices might be the demon's pleasures, or the demon may be seeking to destroy the physical body.

Sometimes demons can be visible, outside of the body, attacking.

These are beings that can comprehend our thoughts and to an extent manipulate our physical bodies. Obviously when inside, they can control a lot more by subduing the will of the person whom they have possessed.

We have no more power to drive off demons than we do to drive off physical viruses. These are parasites of the spirit, and since the soul is the spirit plus the body that the spirit animates, when the spirit corrupts, it generally drives corruption of the body as well, hastening death in some fashion.

God and his angels have the power to drive them out. They are not destroyed, they are simply expelled. They live on, and can infect somebody else, or the same person again if the door is opened to them again.

The light draws the demons too. As a person becomes closer to God, the demons are drawn to the rising goodness, like ants to honey, and they seek a way in. Their motivations are obscure to us - perhaps the demons themselves derive pleasure in their lives from it. But the nefarious effects of their presence are not obscure: they are very bad for us, and very persistent. We need God to drive them out and drive them off.

Without God, we are a computer without any antivirus protection out in the open on the Internet. We will be infected, and then we will have to bear the diminished performance, and the essential personality of the demon within us.

Sin cracks the shield and lets the demons in. The demons are driven out - if they are ever driven out - by the power of God.

 

[Ken Behrens]

From what I'm reading from you all, I'm more than screwed up. I'm a demon.

I was not aware we were talking about anyone in particular. I don't even know you. All I have been discussing is general discernment criteria.

 

[Ken Behrens]

Legion was infected by THOUSANDS of 'evil spirits'. That is what the Bible 'says'. Mary had 'seven' demons cast out of her by Christ. These are only individual instances 'mentioned'. What about all the potential instances that were 'not mentioned'? Do you suppose that when Christ sent out His disciples to 'cast out demons' that those 'doing so' could have written BOOKS of their adventures? We 'know' that they were accomplishing what they were sent out to do, for when they came back after encountering a 'demon' that 'ran them off', they expounded upon the fact that they had 'no problems' casting most demons out until they ran into one of extraordinary strength that ran them off. This plainly illustrates that they had indeed cast 'many demons out' before encountering the 'one' that they couldn't.

Could we think clearly please? Legion is unclean spirits, not evil spirit.s (Pork is unclean, but it is not evil, for example). The one they could not cast out was a deaf and dumb spirit. The words for devil, demon and spirit are different, and they are not always translated correctly.

 

[Ken Behrens]

Yes , If you don't mind, Gods Word tells us to test every Spirit. I don't know you and have never heard you claim to have the Spirit of Christ or the Mind of Christ , but you did insinuate you can exorcise demons. That would mean you would have the Spirit and Mind of Christ. It's the Mind of Christ that i'm asking about , what happened when you received it , and what is continuing to happen as the result of having it?

I know this is personal , I hope you don't mind.

The mind of Christ is a fair question. i struggle to get more and more into it with each day, as do we all. None of us is perfect.

As far as what happened, yes, it is personal, and I am too new at this site to take a chance sharing it publicly. I only do exorcisms when I am asked (and it is needed. Like others who have posted, many times the original discernment of the person asking is wrong.) by those who know me. You have heard me insinuate, or more accurately, report what I have learned studying and doing. I do not solicit such ministry, I do not advertise. Exorcisms have been less than a small fraction of a tiny fraction of a percent of my ministry over the years. Those who ask, know my fruit, or they would not ask. You are new here also, and you are from Ohio, so I doubt we would ever meet. If such time occurs as we become friends, or the Lord joins us in ministry, I will be happy to share then. You are welcome to visit my website, where you will see some things that may (or may not) help answer your question.

 

[Church2u2]

H

Could we think clearly please? Legion is unclean spirits, not evil spirit.s (Pork is unclean, but it is not evil, for example). The one they could not cast out was a deaf and dumb spirit. The words for devil, demon and spirit are different, and they are not always translated correctly.

Hi. So what are the correct translations for devil, demon and spirit?Thanks.

 

[Ken Behrens]

I think that DAVE answered that question when he said it might just take a revelational gifting from the Holy Spirit to discern. I know that Paul walked around for several days listening to the woman with the spirit of divination prophesy true things, before he finally discerned this was demonic and cast it out. I only suppose that the sophistry of this demon so deceived Paul that it took him some time to seek God for a 'spiritual discernment' concerning her. Otherwise it seems odd that the Holy Spirit wouldn't have warned Paul the first time she spoke.

I am curious as to why you and Dave both think that dealing with demonic activity is some 'special' calling though?

I hope you are wrong, and that discernment can be helped by a more careful study of the Word, and by sharing of experiences, rather than by a revelational gifting. If you are correct, there is little sense in having this conversation.

Paul was trying to avoid making trouble. He knew it was demonic, but was not certain what direction his ministry was to take. Paul had been summoned to Macedonia in a dream by a man, and yet, he had met only women in the time he had been there. And he also knew, that whatever happened here, it would signal his start of a new ministry, among people where there were no established Jewish synagogues.

It is and it isn't special Any Christian walking with the Lord is qualified. The problem is, that there are so many Christians who take the name, but are not walking with the Lord.

 

[Ken Behrens]

H

Hi. So what are the correct translations for devil, demon and spirit?Thanks.

In order, diabolos, daimon, pneuma. Hebrew has satan,......, ruach. But, they are not exact. Pneuma includes neshama. Depending on who you talk to, some might say that the blank space could be filled by ob, or maybe even nephesh or chai. But none of these three mean what the Greeks called daimon, since the Hebrews did not have the understanding of self-identity in the classical language.

 

[Hillsage]

I hope you are wrong, and that discernment can be helped by a more careful study of the Word, and by sharing of experiences, rather than by a revelational gifting. If you are correct, there is little sense in having this conversation.

Of course I think all things can be helped with bible study. But if bible study is what is really required then the body of Christ was pretty much left in the dark 'ages' for a long time waiting for 'bibles' to be available. I know you have maybe already alluded to it....and it's not a totally accepted verse....but;
MAR 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

I suppose one might argue that the above verse means they can 'believe in Jesus and be saved' but still not 'believe they can cast out devils'. What do you think?

Paul was trying to avoid making trouble. He knew it was demonic, but was not certain what direction his ministry was to take.

Couldn't he just figure it out "studying the word"? I'm jesting of course. No Christian had a written "word to study" concerning these things. All they had was the Holy Spirit and a willingness to be led by God's 'spoken word' IMO. Paul was also simply led of the Spirit most of the time IMO. As to your comment that "he knew it was demonic", Is that just opinion or do you have some scriptural 9or other support) for your POV also? And as far as "not certain as to the direction of his ministry", I kind of feel like the following scripture tells us all Paul often knew, most of the time;

Acts 16:10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.

Personally, I think the church today would be a lot more effective if they depended more upon the 'Lord's calling/speaking by the Spirit'.

Paul had been summoned to Macedonia in a dream by a man, and yet, he had met only women in the time he had been there. And he also knew, that whatever happened here, it would signal his start of a new ministry, among people where there were no established Jewish synagogues.

It is and it isn't special Any Christian walking with the Lord is qualified. The problem is, that there are so many Christians who take the name, but are not walking with the Lord.

I totally agree with your point here. But not really knowing your background Ken I hope I don't step on toes with my additional 'qualification'.....and that same scripture I quoted above. "they shall speak in tongues" indicates to me that a fundamentalist isn't going to be doing these types of supernatural works. They just have a tendency to go 'dispensationalist' IMO.

 

[Ladyghosthunter]

Thank you for an excellent start. Let me list some problems with each, and see if my list does not help us develop a more precise definition. 1. Can be mimicked by martial arts techniques. 2. Can be mimicked by PTSD from war. 3. That uses demonic to define a test for being demonic, and thus is circular. 4. Is usually alleged to be psychiatric in cause. 6. A lot of people have that. 7. Occult activity can be done without demonic involvement for a while.

First of all, I know martial arts, Kosho Ryu Kenpo. Second I have PTSD. Third, I've had depression all of my life and have seen counselors since I was 14 due to the abuses of my family. I'm just not understanding what you're saying. I'm a seer and an empath-so all of these things make me demonic? I've been suicidal from my PTSD. What I'm not understanding is that I've seen a demon and I've written about it that will be published soon. I was attacked by a demon but praise God I wasn't scratched or anything like that. I wasn't possessed or even oppressed, I was just attacked.
Please explain to me what your wordly intentions meant because, to me, it sounds like I'm demonic and just didn't know it all of my life. I mean, I was baptised twice and carry with me holy water to bless myself every day. I don't get it.