Beware of demons.

[Job8]

Of course you are correct. And this is important. But how can we discern which is which? May I ask for a precise definition of demon? Perhaps that will be one step in the direction you intend.

According to Scripture, a demon is a spirit being which enters into other bodies, be they human or animal.

 

[Job8]

I am not as confident in the idea that evil spirits can possess animals.

Well we have an excellent example in Scripture where the demons asked to go into a herd of swine, which were then stampeded into the sea. Furthermore, Native Americans have long held to the belief that animals are possessed by spirits.

 

[watchman 2]

Sorry my friend, that's not how it works. Whether you believe in them or not, they believe in you and they WANT you.

Nope, everything is not the fault of the devil. Chance, fate, there are many things that happen in our lives that are 'not the fault of the Devil'.

Your 'desire' to know them is irrelevant. It matters not.

It is nice to know that I have finally met the ONE MAN that is completely consumed by The Holy Spirit. you are one 'special dude' indeed. For you the ONLY person I have EVER met that has made such a bold statement. I can assure you, there is much MORE time in my life that I am NOT in The Spirit than the time that I am. And I KNOW this without a doubt for I recognize what it means to be "IN" the Spirit.

You have introduced me, for the first time in my life, to one of God's 'very elect'. For that is what I believe one 'MUST BE' in order to be 'completely' consumed by the Spirit of Christ. you are indeed, from my perspective, ONE OF A KIND.

Blessings,

MEC

I'm not sure i communicated the point i was trying to make . But thats how it works for me. When God seals the Holy Spirit in us as the result of a continual surrendering of our lives to Him, it's like we are put in a protective bubble. Nothing coming in, and nothing going out. But, the Holy Spirit is "inside us" never leaves us. The other thing that is inside us that doesn't come and go is the "mind of Christ." So when i say i'm completely consumed, yes its a very special happening , but that doesn't make me special as you said.

The best example i can give would be Rom. 7 :14-21. In this Scripture Paul makes statements about his state of being that is just a basic "in Christ" understanding.. He states that he can't do what he wants to do , and what he does not want to do , that he keeps on doing. He goes onto say , that when he does what he does not want to do , it's not him doing it , but sin dwelling in him thats doing it.

As the result of extensive study in the original Scriptures , the Greek texts paint a picture thats much easier to understand. The state of being that Paul is in , is that there are 3 entities in his state of being. One the sinful nature , two , the Holy Spirit , and three Paul. The Greek specifically describes a state where there is "trench warfare" going on inside him between the sinful nature and the Holy Spirit ( in the bubble, i know bad example ). Paul as the third party, is merely an onlooker , watching this warfare going on , warring over his soul , with only the power to decide which on of those two he will continually surrender his life two.

This is the perfect understanding of what Sanctification is , or what simply means to be separated from. So the Spiritual state that you implied comes and goes just isn't supported by at least this one example of what the state of being "in Christ" should look and feel like.

With all that going on inside Paul , why would he entertain demons at any level?

There are laws in the Spiritual world just as relevant as laws in the natural. In Pauls state in Rom 7 , he probably couldn't entertain demons , just like were bound to gravity. The two states can't coincide at any level.

 

[Job8]

Agreed. But exactly 'what' animals can demons infect?

That should be a secondary consideration. The point to note is that animals can be demon-possessed or Satan possessed.

 

[Ken Behrens]

My opinion is that those 6 steps if they really were on the catacomb walls , were just a format to enter into a relationship with Christ.

In 30 years, i only knew that one person to do the steps the way he did.

Oh, and the 3rd step of AA. Its the same exact definition of the Greek word "pisteuo" that was mistranslated "believe, believer, and believing in our NT Bibles. Vines Greek dictionary : "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." The word "believe" just doesn't communicate that message. Pisteuo is used 248 times.

I'm sure these steps were never there, just as you are. There are different ways to do this ministry. i have known very few successes either way, but exorcism seems to have proportionately fewer than your method. Most people I have known in this ministry either do deliverances all the time, or never. This does not help the purpose of this thread though, to determine which case is which.

Plato says (in Latches) that pistis is a contraction for "pos estis" meaning in Greek, "in order to become".

 

[Ken Behrens]

Could you elaborate how the policeman works?

I mean the part about carrying a gun. A good policeman hopes he never has to use it. I can, and have, handled this realm of demons, but that is how I feel when I must do so.

A bad policeman wants to kill the badguys. I know some exorcists like that.

A godly policeman does what he must, and trusts God that it will not mess up his own opinion of himself.

 

[Ken Behrens]

According to Scripture, a demon is a spirit being which enters into other bodies, be they human or animal.

And that is the problem. How can you tell when there is one inside a given body?

 

[watchman 2]

I'm sure these steps were never there, just as you are. There are different ways to do this ministry. i have known very few successes either way, but exorcism seems to have proportionately fewer than your method. Most people I have known in this ministry either do deliverances all the time, or never. This does not help the purpose of this thread though, to determine which case is which.

Plato says (in Latches) that pistis is a contraction for "pos estis" meaning in Greek, "in order to become".

After experiencing the result, i would lean more towards they were there on the catacomb walls. Put flesh and blood on it. If someone wanted to follow Christ , what would you say back then? Believe the Scriptures ? There was no Scriptures yet. So the only way one could follow Christ , would be what the 3rd step was , "to surrender their life and will to God." And that is still true today. Pisteuo used 248 times in the NT means "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." Not , believe, believer and believing as it was mistranslated into English.

What people stand on today for Salvation, wouldn't have worked before the 1500's.

 

[watchman 2]

I mean the part about carrying a gun. A good policeman hopes he never has to use it. I can, and have, handled this realm of demons, but that is how I feel when I must do so.

A bad policeman wants to kill the badguys. I know some exorcists like that.

A godly policeman does what he must, and trusts God that it will not mess up his own opinion of himself.

I would be more inclined to test the exorcist before a demon. God has given me a understanding to test all Spirits.

If one has the Spirit of Christ , then Christ is his , and Gods Word and His promises are his also. If one does not have the Spirit of Christ, Christ , His Word and promises are not theres either.

Gods Word tells us , if we have the Spirit of Christ , then we have the "mind of Christ". If you have a really good teacher, he could show you in Gods Word what happens and what it's like to experience the Spirit of Christ. But what Gods Word doesn't tell us is what happens and what it feels like when you recieve the "mind of Christ."

So i simply ask to test the Spirits, what happened and what is continuing to happen as the result of having the mind of Christ?

What would your answer be?

 

[Job8]

And that is the problem. How can you tell when there is one inside a given body?

We can only go by Scripture, where we see:

1. Superhuman strength

2. Extreme and uncontrolled violence

3. Bizarre, suicidal or demonic behavior

4. Mental derangement

5. Paroxysms

6. Physical diseases and disabilities

7. Occult activity (mediums, witches, wizards).

 

[Ken Behrens]

After experiencing the result, i would lean more towards they were there on the catacomb walls. Put flesh and blood on it. If someone wanted to follow Christ , what would you say back then? Believe the Scriptures ? There was no Scriptures yet. So the only way one could follow Christ , would be what the 3rd step was , "to surrender their life and will to God." And that is still true today. Pisteuo used 248 times in the NT means "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." Not , believe, believer and believing as it was mistranslated into English.

What people stand on today for Salvation, wouldn't have worked before the 1500's.

Precursors of the steps were certainly in use, but from what I have read of catacomb walls, they were probably not that kind of engravings. The only real proof is to produce the original.

 

[Ken Behrens]

So i simply ask to test the Spirits, what happened and what is continuing to happen as the result of having the mind of Christ?

What would your answer be?

Are you asking for my personal answer to that? Or for my answer to how I would test the exorcist? I would agree with you on the seo=cond, of course, by their fruit you will know them. My test amounts to the humility portion of that.

 

[Ken Behrens]

We can only go by Scripture, where we see:

1. Superhuman strength

2. Extreme and uncontrolled violence

3. Bizarre, suicidal or demonic behavior

4. Mental derangement

5. Paroxysms

6. Physical diseases and disabilities

7. Occult activity (mediums, witches, wizards).

Thank you for an excellent start. Let me list some problems with each, and see if my list does not help us develop a more precise definition. 1. Can be mimicked by martial arts techniques. 2. Can be mimicked by PTSD from war. 3. That uses demonic to define a test for being demonic, and thus is circular. 4. Is usually alleged to be psychiatric in cause. 6. A lot of people have that. 7. Occult activity can be done without demonic involvement for a while.

 

[Ladyghosthunter]

I have read all of your posts and wonder what you all really think of my PTSD condition. Are you saying that I'm possessed or oppressed? Being a seer for over 40 years, I know the four stages of demonic takeover and I'm not taken over by any means. I've been through Hell with my family, with failed marriages, with other things but that doesn't make me demonic or filled with evil. I pray every day to Mother Mary and to Jesus constantly and have seen his miracles. I've got rosaries in the house and holy water, which demons abhor that I bless myself with.
Unless you all are a professor in theology or an exorcist, I'm going to say that these speculations are just that. If I was possessed or even oppressed, I'd be in front of an exorcist in a second to cure me. From what I'm reading from you all, I'm more than screwed up. I'm a demon.

 

[Jamie Lee]

I have already discussed my understanding of 'mental disorders' mostly being 'demon' inspired. Not going to go back and talk about it 'again'.

But I will point out that there are more people on 'mental medications' today than any time in history. We are a 'people' of 'mental disorders' today. Not going to quote statistics. Anyone that has an interest, a true interest, already knows what I'm talking about and that what I speak concerning 'numbers' is truth.

But what I want to focus on in this thread is: what about those that 'think' they are mentally competent but in truth are just 'hiding' their mental issues? Not everyone with mental issues are on medication. Not all with mental issues have sought any sort of 'help' from the medical community. So that means that there are 'many' with mental issues no one but themselves and those closest to them are aware of.

To me, it is utterly apparent that during the time of Christ, those possessed of 'evil spirits' or 'demons' were considered 'insane'. The man who's son fell into fire and water would certainly be considered 'insane' by today's standards of diagnosis. Yet the Bible tells us that the child was possessed of 'evil spirits'.

Legion was considered 'insane' as well. Yet we see that after Christ 'cast out the demons', they were seen talking together and Legion was by all accounts, perfectly 'normal'.

So what are 'mental disorders'? Are they really 'medical conditions' or merely foreign influence of one's 'mind'?

Over and over we hear the stories of the mother who says she was 'told by God' to kill her children in order to 'save them'. Not 'one' story. MANY. The legal system and medical community call these people 'delusional' and 'mentally ill'.

I won't deny the diagnosis. But the medical community continually insists that the 'mental disorders' suffered by these people are simply problems with their 'brains'. Is this 'really' the proper diagnosis?

Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, (or syndrome), as of late, has been extensively studied. The information obtained is 'showing' that those that suffer from this disorder have literal 'brain disorders'. That what they were exposed to due to the stress and shock they experienced have literally 'altered' their brains. Their brains when compared to each other show similar patterns of activity that do not exist in others who do not suffer from the syndrome.

This means that we can 'experience' things that can literally 'alter' the way our brains work. Not merely a 'mental condition', but a literal 'altering of the functioning of one's brain'.

Think about this: A person can simply 'experience' intense emotions and that experience has the potential to actually 'alter' the way their brain functions.

What if? What if demons, once one allows them to make a 'place' in their minds and hearts, have the potential, over time, to DO this very thing: Like PTSS, they can literally cause the 'altering' of one's 'brain'? As one 'relinquishes' their own control of their mind, hands it over to a 'demon or demons', those demons have the potential to actually 'alter' their minds and hearts?

We continually hear the stories of those that commit the most atrocious crimes that are almost identical. They start with, "I don't know what happened. It's like I snapped and 'lost control'. Or, 'It was like I was 'outside' my body and I was watching myself pull the trigger'.

Or course, law enforcement would shudder at the mere 'thought' that they may be telling the 'truth'. For if they are ''telling the truth'', they would be considered 'not responsible' for their own behavior. This could cause some major problems in attempting to 'try' them. For how does one find someone 'guilty' of something they have 'no control over'?

The medical community would NEVER consider what I'm offering for there is 'no money' in treating someone with 'demons' instead of insisting that their 'mental issues' are merely a matter of chemistry. Yet no amount of medicine ever 'cures' anyone. The medication merely interrupts electrical signals basically 'cutting off' certain brain functions. Once one 'stops' taking their medication, we often witness that their problems are worse than when they started taking medication.

So what if. What if 'demons' are able to literally alter 'brain chemistry' or 'brain function'? When we witness people that we call 'insane', they are merely under the influence of demons and demons that have the capacity, over time, to literally alter the functioning of the host's brain? Their 'minds' or their 'hearts'?

The Bible tells us that we need to remain continuously on guard against the 'wiles of the Devil'. I find it safe to assume that demons, being minions of the Devil, are merely one functioning 'part' of the 'wiles of the Devil'. That Satan 'uses' his demons to influence those that 'allow' them the opportunity.

And by 'allowing', it means that is through a lack of vigilance that one becomes 'infected', (possessed), by 'evil spirits', (demons), Only when one 'lets down their guard' is it possible to be 'possessed'. But once possessed, one 'must do' certain 'things' in order to rid themselves of these parasites. They 'don't just go away' of their own choice. Not until they have accomplished what they 'came for'. And that is the destruction of the 'host's soul'.

For we are warned that we need not fear those capable of taking our physical lives, but that which is able to destroy our very SOULS. So there is no doubt that our 'souls can be destroyed'. The Bible says so.

And how is one's soul destroyed? By doing something that they cannot forgive themselves for. For we are forgiven as we are able to forgive. And if one is incapable of forgiving, they they cannot be forgiven. That too is what the Bible says.

Many will disagree due to the 'teachings of their churches'. But the Bible states that if you DO NOT FORGIVE, you WILL NOT BE FORGIVEN. The most important part of the plan of Salvation is 'forgiveness'. You cannot practice true love without forgiveness. And you cannot receive Salvation without being able to 'love God and your neighbor'. Christ Himself stated that the 'most important commandment' is to 'love God' and the second is 'love your neighbor'. And He also stated that to 'love God' is to follow His commandments'. The most important 'act' of faith is 'love'. That means that 'saying' you believe means 'nothing'. it's what you DO that matters. What you 'do' that produces the 'fruit' of your faith. Saying you are a believer? Even Satan is a believer in Christ. He hates Him. The demons shudder at His name. Following is the ONLY fruit of the 'Spirit'. It's not what you 'say', that makes you a follower of God through Christ, it's what you "DO".

With these things in mind, what happens when one 'lets down their guard' that they have been instructed to 'keep up at all times'? They basically leave the front door WIDE open. Not only 'unlatched' or 'unlocked', but WIDE OPEN. May as well verbally 'invite them in'. And once in, they are like any other parasite: awful hard to get rid of. For they obviously NEED a host in order to 'survive' or to be 'satisfied' with their very existence.

I know, crazy right? Hmmmm...........If you call accepting what the Bible offers 'crazy'? Then indeed. According to the 'world around us'. Absolutely. But according to the Bible, nothing I have offered contradicts what it offers. In fact, what I have offered is much more Biblical than the idea that people are 'born crazy'.

And think about this: If demons are very difficult to get rid of, what happens if one doesn't even recognize their own demons? Or if society in general is not 'taught' to recognize them? But instead, is encouraged to believe something entirely 'different' than the 'truth'? Oh my. See where this is heading? How would one be 'able' to know what I'm offering if everything that exists in this world is PUSHING to hide it? Influencing all but God's very elect to ignore the 'truth' and follow that which is 'false'.?

Think about this too: Why are there 'so many different denominations'? What is the "INFLUENCE"? Certainly it isn't God influencing men to divide themselves into 'different denominations'. Especially when we can clearly see that many of these denominations are completely and utterly contrary to the 'truth'.

I'm going to let this be digested before continuing any furthers. And I'm sure I've offered enough to keep the skeptics coming for days. LOL.

Blessings,

MEC

Lol, you have courage for bringing up this controversial subject!

Keep in mind, people are found not guilty by reason of insanity when they are found to be not responsible for their actions. So it does happen indeed.

As somebody studying both psychology and neuroscience and demonology, I have often wondered this myself. Its an interesting question and Im not sure what I believe.

Im not sure it has to be one or the other. Perhaps the spiritual world is always working in conjunction with the physical. Jobs boils were a medical condition, but it was the Devil that caused it. Not because he was evil, but to test him.

Christians suffer from mental illness just as much as nonbelievers, its important to remember its not a result of sin neccessarily, but perhaps a part of the tests that come to us all. I think either way, you should treat it with every weapon in your arsenal if its causing a problem. Not all about having a disorder is neccessarily bad, for instance, ADHD makes an individual more creative, and drawing a line between what is a disorder and what is just a difference with upsides and downsides is difficult. But therapy, medication, counseling, praying and exorcism? You could try them all for problems.

In medieval demonology, it was a common belief that we were each assigned a guardian angel and a personal demon, and both had a specialty virtue or vice they would try to sway us towards. I like this, whether its just symbolic or literally the way things are. We do each have a vice and virtue. Perhaps specific demons are assigned to some people at birth that specializes in causing insanity. Perhaps the spiritual causes the physical.
Food for thought.

Cheers.

 

[watchman 2]

Are you asking for my personal answer to that? Or for my answer to how I would test the exorcist? I would agree with you on the seo=cond, of course, by their fruit you will know them. My test amounts to the humility portion of that.

Yes , If you don't mind, Gods Word tells us to test every Spirit. I don't know you and have never heard you claim to have the Spirit of Christ or the Mind of Christ , but you did insinuate you can exorcise demons. That would mean you would have the Spirit and Mind of Christ. It's the Mind of Christ that i'm asking about , what happened when you received it , and what is continuing to happen as the result of having it?

I know this is personal , I hope you don't mind.

 

[Blade]

Jesus is real and this area is not one anyone should just be playing with. The body as we know can get sick..well the mind can do and does not always mean a demon. That is something that you know by the spirit of God. You dont look for this you dont seek it out. Then most that play with this dont pray 24/7 and I mean hours and hours a day. They dont watch what they say or do or think or hear.

And lets get one thing clear. We came up with this going to school to be this or that. One man in JESUS day went around using the name of JESUS doing what? Jesus said if they are for me they are not against me. The CALLING comes from GOD not man. But lol power of the devil and demons fallen angels ..a is in ALL of us period. Behold I have you power? Greater is HE that is in you then he thats in the world? Peter and John at the gate said? We dont have gold or silver but what we do have..wait? What? They never once had to ask GOD pray to JESUS? What? They had something and GAVE it away and IN Jesus name. THAT is what YOU have. I dont care what man says. You read the bible.. its what HE says you stand by you do. But you dont seek out devils and demons. And sorry lol not every mind sickness or body sickness is a demon. Comes from the same place but is not from GOD. What did God say about sin? What did He say to one ..go and sin no more lest a worse thing come on you? The wages of sin is death. Death comes in may ways.

But you have to be prayed up or you can say in JESUS name all you want and nothing will happen. All you will think for just after that you will get that thought that you were not thinking..maybe this is Gods will for them to be sick things like that.

Anyway sorry I didnt know if this was a statement the person was saying or asking. So forgive me if I got off on the wrong thing. But please.. if you take anything from what I say.. DONT play with this. The 12 lived what they preached. They prayed 24/7 all the time every day. From the day the holy Spirit came on them 25years later and more they were STILL just as strong in the lord or greater. Is that how we are? Whens the last time you were with 120 of one accord praying waiting on God for HOURS? WE cant even to it for an hour and you think the enemy is going to take us serious?

LadyGhosthunter. Though I disagree on some things you believe the FACT remains true. There is NOTHING greater then HE that is IN YOU. I dont know ANYONE that can have 1/4 1/2 3/4 of Christ in them. He comes in ALL or not at all. And He does NOT share HIS House. You are the temple that is not made by man.,,,,wow I hope I was not really off here .. before I said you name lol if so.. forgive me

 

[Basil the Great]

I do not believe that most mental disorders come from demonic possession. Could most come from demonic oppression? I suppose such is possible, but I still tend to doubt it. True demonic possession is very rare or so it would seem. As to how common demonic oppression is, it is hard to say.

 

[well hey]

mental disorders can be demonically charged or strickly medical. Having bipolar or schizophrenia is a health issue. It can also be intensified by demons. Going crazy and commiting a horrible crime and then blaming it on mental illness is a COP OUT. KIlling someone is a CHARACTER DEFECT and has nothing to do with the health issue.

Also to anyone. Satan has an enormous amount of power and we should always be on guard to protect ourselves with the armour of God

 

[musicalpilgrim]

I think it is a big mistake to place that much stress on Satan and his demons and their possible influence in a Christian's life. It can lead a person into paranoiac fear of anything and everything. God alone is to be shown respectful reverence. That is to say, a Christian should walk about secure in the knowledge that God has his back at all times.

True, but you need to be aware of these things as a Christian; I know of people who consider themselves Christians who 'don't believe in the devil or demon possession'.

I believe drug abuse is one example of demons working hard to destroy the person and the people around that drug addicted person.

I observe the tragic events of lone killers shooting up schools, random killings with no possible or obvious motive, and at the back, often not reported is the fact that these people have been on antidepressants, cannabis, or other drugs. Could these mind altering drugs be a factor in themselves?

Doing Biblical study on demons, is a well worth the research time it takes, and just might open the eyes of doubters.

I agree, research to be educated, and not obsession...

But we see the population of this planet being led down a 'new path of evil' like never before. Parents killing children, children killing their parents and each other at an alarming rate of frequency. And no one addressing the issue of 'why'.

The most abhorant is the killing of unborn children, which the law allows and encourages under the name abortion. I pray regularly about this.
I suspect the current widespread abuse of old people in care homes and in hospitals is also a slippery road...I don't care to think where it may end. I pray for protection of the old, lonely and unwanted.