Beings from beyond... Does it have to shake our theology?

[Carl Emerson]

Sure, some cultures will be monotheistic but that doesn't mean they worship the right god, ie the muslims as an example.
Also, the Maori's you mention would not have converted to Christianity until AFTER the Gospel arrived on their shores.
So some aliens, if they existed, might be monotheistic & others multi-theistic, but none would worship the true God without the true Gospel.

Even if He reveals Himself through creation ?

 

[Sorn]

Even if He reveals Himself through creation ?

Romans 1 and creation are meant to be there so that no one can say 'there is no God'. However it says nothing as to who that God is or many of its qualities, hence human societies have invented hundreds if not thousands of Gods throughout the ages, none of which are correct.
Nature as we know it, & because they would live in the same universe, as aliens, if there were any, would know it, does not say enough about who God is that they could know Him just by nature. They would still need some sort of revelation.

But the main problem is sin, how would sin be dealt with in them, as Jesus only died once and for us, its quite clearly in the bible or otherwise the bible is completely inaccurate on this point.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Romans 1 and creation are meant to be there so that no one can say 'there is no God'. However it says nothing as to who that God is or many other its qualities, hence human societies have invented hundreds if not thousands of Gods throughout the ages, none of which are correct.
Nature as we know it, & because they would live in the same universe, as aliens, if there were any, would know it, does not say enough about who God is that they could know Him just by nature. They would still need some sort of revelation.

But the main problem is sin, how would sin be dealt with in them, as Jesus only died once and for us, its quite clearly in the bible or otherwise the bible is completely inaccurate on this point.

Yet from God's perspective they have sufficient revelation of Him and His Character to be judged...

 

[Sorn]

Yet from God's perspective they have sufficient revelation of Him and His Character to be judged...

So are you saying that before Jesus, people didn't need Jesus?? Which begs the question why He came and died then??

 

[Lost Witness]

So are you saying that before Jesus, people didn't need Jesus?? Which begs the question why He came and died then??

Don't think brother Carl was suggesting that people before the LORD walked in the flesh didn't need him?
Its because all men, past present and future. Need him that he revealed himself to us?

Its through the Lord revealing himself to us as he did and the sacrifices that he made.
That we no longer can claim to be ignorant?

 

[Carl Emerson]

So are you saying that before Jesus, people didn't need Jesus?? Which begs the question why He came and died then??

No it doesn't - the Cross was a timeless event that spans the whole of history.

 

[Fervent]

Romans 1 and creation are meant to be there so that no one can say 'there is no God'. However it says nothing as to who that God is or many of its qualities, hence human societies have invented hundreds if not thousands of Gods throughout the ages, none of which are correct.
Nature as we know it, & because they would live in the same universe, as aliens, if there were any, would know it, does not say enough about who God is that they could know Him just by nature. They would still need some sort of revelation.

But the main problem is sin, how would sin be dealt with in them, as Jesus only died once and for us, its quite clearly in the bible or otherwise the bible is completely inaccurate on this point.

As Romans 9:15-16 makes clear, God is not limited in who he may show mercy to. Jesus' death for us is His mechanic for accomplishing that in us, but that does not mean that He could not accomplish mercy in an alien race in a different manner.

 

[bbbbbbb]

No it doesn't - the Cross was a timeless event that spans the whole of history.

In a very real sense, you are correct. It aligns with the Calvinist belief in predestination as having taken place outside of the limits of time. Eternity is timeless.

 

[Sorn]

As Romans 9:15-16 makes clear, God is not limited in who he may show mercy to. Jesus' death for us is His mechanic for accomplishing that in us, but that does not mean that He could not accomplish mercy in an alien race in a different manner.

Romans 9:15-16 makes clear, God is not limited in who he may show mercy to, but it says nothing on hoe God shows hat mercy so He may well limit it to those that have faith in Jesus. So in my opinion, it would seem very odd that for us God the Father says to Jesus (God the Son) you must go, live as one of them then suffer and die but for the little green ones here and those big grey ones there, I am just going to let them in if they say sorry.

That is inconsistent & out of character with how we see God acting hence why I don't think that would happen which then supports there being no other aliens out there in my opinion.

 

[Fervent]

Romans 9:15-16 makes clear, God is not limited in who he may show mercy to, but it says nothing on hoe God shows hat mercy so He may well limit it to those that have faith in Jesus. So in my opinion, it would seem very odd that for us God the Father says to Jesus (God the Son) you must go, live as one of them then suffer and die but for the little green ones here and those big grey ones there, I am just going to let them in if they say sorry.

That is inconsistent & out of character with how we see God acting hence why I don't think that would happen which then supports there being no other aliens out there in my opinion.

Maybe, but the context of Romans 9 is about God's mercy being more expansive than men imagine, so while we may believe certain necessities for God's mercy to flow through that does not mean He can be so limited. While the topic of aliens is a bit beyond the scope of ordinary speculation, that does not mean God could not have made provision without mentioning as much to us.

 

[Servus]

I think they are beings of the earth who were in a separate dimension which was opened by an atomic bomb detonation. Perhaps the first one the movie "Oppenheimer" is about. It was shortly after that event that they started showing up.

The first nuclear explosion occurred July 16, 1945.

The first UFO sighting occurred June 24, 1947.

 

[Strong in Him]

Just a thought about the current disclosures being made by folks from the military about phenomena in the skies thought to be the activity of some advanced technology beyond normal human capabilities.

You can read about it on this thread... Whistleblower Testifies Under Oath to Congress that the Government has recovered "non-human biologics" from UFOs

Should these claims stack up and we are faced with there being life beyond the earth - will your theology cope with that ?

I don't see that it's got anything to do with theology.
Whether God created other beings on all, or no, other planets, that doesn't affect the fact that a) he created and loves me, b) he is my Saviour, c) I am called to live for him each day; living out my faith and taking the opportunities that he gives me to tell others about him.

 

[FireDragon76]

I do not see a reason why to try to fit this into biblical worldview. Bible does not have to speak about everything and not every phenomena or being must be identified as "something in the Bible - angel or demon".

Theologically, I do not see any problem with extraterrestrials, with beings from other dimensions or with some undiscovered intelligent terrestrial life.

My thoughts exactly. I prefer to suspend judgement.

Centuries ago, Christians often believed in a host of non-human, non-angelic intelligences in the world, such as fairies or elementals. These were not regarded as demonic, but just another kind of creature that lived alongside humanity. It was some Protestan reformers that started to suggest that tales of strange creatures and ghosts were demonic, but before then, Christians really did not have a problem with non-demonic/angelic, nonhuman intelligences as such.

 

[FireDragon76]

I think they are beings of the earth who were in a separate dimension which was opened by an atomic bomb detonation. Perhaps the first one the movie "Oppenheimer" is about. It was shortly after that event that they started showing up.

The first nuclear explosion occurred July 16, 1945.

The first UFO sighting occurred June 24, 1947.

Actually, stories about lights and ships in the sky predate the atomb bomb by centuries. They also transcend cultures. We have accounts of mysterious lights in the sky, similar to modern accounts, in premodern China, for instance. We also have stories from the Renaissance, in Europe. Some early American Puritan settlers also saw unidentified lights in the sky, and in the late 19th century there was an airship sighting flap all over the US.

 

[Servus]

Actually, stories about lights and ships in the sky predate the atomb bomb by centuries. They also transcend cultures. We have accounts of mysterious lights in the sky, similar to modern accounts, in premodern China, for instance. We also have stories from the Renaissance, in Europe. Some early American Puritan settlers also saw unidentified lights in the sky, and in the late 19th century there was an airship sighting flap all over the US.

Yep. But the UFO, flying disk, flying saucer phenomenon started in 1947.

But personally I think after 75 years of nothing really coming of it, nothing ever will. And when all the other stuff you brought up is added, then it becomes hundreds of years.

 

[FireDragon76]

Yep. But the UFO, flying disk, flying saucer phenomenon started in 1947.

Most scholars place the beginnings of the modern phenomenon in Finland around the end of WWII, with reports of "ghost rockets".

Ghost rockets - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Most Americans aren't aware of this but there are areas of Scandinavia that have alot of unidentified lights or objects sighted, even to this day. It's a global phenomenon; some of the largest sightings have actually occurred in Europe.

 

[Servus]

Most scholars place the beginnings of the modern phenomenon in Finland around the end of WWII, with reports of "ghost rockets".

Ghost rockets - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Most Americans aren't aware of this but there are areas of Scandinavia that have alot of unidentified lights or objects sighted, even to this day. It's a global phenomenon; some of the largest sightings have actually occurred in Europe.

I'm familiar with a lot of that. But when you google when was the first UFO sighting, you get June 24, 1947. And it took place near Mt Rainier in Washington state.

 

[FireDragon76]

I'm familiar with a lot of that. But when you google when was the first UFO sighting, you get June 24, 1947. And it took place near Mt Rainier in Washington state.

That's where the term "flying saucers" was coined, even though the objects Arnold claimed to see weren't saucer shaped at all, but wing shaped.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Terminology is a very trick thing. To assert that UFO sightings postdate the development of the nuclear bomb may be quite true simply because, as has been noted, there was no such term as UFO prior to that. That leaves, as also has been noted, the entire range of very similar phenomena which have been recorded over centuries. Like it or not, whatever term you wish to employ, it is disengenuous to say that UFOs are a modern phenomenom which are the direct result of a particular development.

The fact remains that there is a lengthy history of these things happening for which there has not yet been a reasonable explanation. There are also many beings, noted throughout history, such as fairies, angels, the Loch Ness monster, yeti, Bigfoot, etc. which have never received much of a plausible explanation other than they get lumped into a general category of folk myth.

 

[Jamdoc]

Just a thought about the current disclosures being made by folks from the military about phenomena in the skies thought to be the activity of some advanced technology beyond normal human capabilities.

You can read about it on this thread... Whistleblower Testifies Under Oath to Congress that the Government has recovered "non-human biologics" from UFOs

Should these claims stack up and we are faced with there being life beyond the earth - will your theology cope with that ?

My thought is that such activity if real, is demonic in origin for these reasons.

First we know that angels can assume human form - otherwise we couldn't entertain them unawares as Scripture says.

It follows then that fallen angels are equally capable of appearing in physical forms and may present with very high intelligence and forms that are non humanoid.

Second the narrative in Revelation speaks about the deception to come involving signs and wonders on earth and in the sky.

Thirdly the temptation in the garden was all about knowledge and being presented with superior knowledge from such beings will again be Satans trump card to draw humanity away from Godliness.

Hey - these are my musings and it seems very soon this matter will be in our face to deal with if what we are hearing is to be believed.

Not really. I accept that there can be lifeforms on other worlds. Angels came from somewhere and the descriptions of them seem pretty "alien-like" at times. I don't see it as they are just spiritual non corporeal beings, but they can be corporeal beings as well, coming from a physical universe. In Revelation there are 4 angels described as "beasts", and in Isaiah and Ezekiel cherubim are given very non human descriptions as well.

the popular second temple view of what demons were is the spirits of the Nephilim rather than the spirits of fallen angels. Angel just means messenger. so, it's possible that God uses intelligent beings from other planets as messengers rather than create a "species" of purely spiritual beings. I don't find this conflicting.
I also don't hold this dogmatically, only as a possibility. I don't think God revealed everything to us in the bible, just enough of what we need to know to worship Him and be saved and what's going to lead to our future. Everything else, will have to wait.