Being Gay and Christian...is this possible?

[Jase]

Why should I trust your interpretation and not that of all the scholars that have worked on translating bibles and such? I wont.

I however have said what I needed to say. Homosexual acts are sinful, but not having the attraction. I will not debate this.

Conservative Bible publishers are the one's who changed the meaning of the anti-gay verses, because it increased Bible sales among conservatives. Bible Publishers are not above deception to make a profit.

 

[Searching_for_Christ]

Don't come to the Liberal forum and attack our views on scripture and these issues. It is a violation of the board rules. Your views on homosexuality are wrong. End of discussion.

*looks at the conservative forum* I see we are both doing the same thing :/

 

[Searching_for_Christ]

Alright here this goes.

I would like to formally apologize. You are correct, I should not be coming into the liberal section looking for a fight. I am breaking forum rules by doing this, and my actions have lead to a un-Christ like banter between us. My convictions remain (in regards to homosexuality) however I will bow out of this forum. Please forgive me for letting my pride and ego get to my head, which had lead to my little mini-crusade against you kind folks the last couple of days.

Good night.

 

[kiwimac]

There is no need for you to NOT post here. Just post bearing in mind that this is a place for liberal Christians.

 

[Jase]

*looks at the conservative forum* I see we are both doing the same thing :/

I didn't make accusations. I asked questions. Questions are allowed between faith groups. Telling them their views are wrong is not.

 

[Speculative]

paintedgoldfish,

Many United Methodist Churches are gay-friendly. My church has several gay couples and the current youth director is a lesbian. You can search for a church through the Reconciling Ministries Network at rmnetwork.org. Blessings and best wishes to you

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Hmm i'm a christian .

and i do lots of stuff the book doesn't agree with . and some of it generally would trump what you've listed as a roadblock to being a "christian"

the point is Jesus died to nail the rules that stand against us to the cross . (colossians) now we come to him . and all that is needed is trust . (galatians) sin simplified is anything that harms others (romans) and anything that doesn't come from trust (also from romans) . if you feel you've wronged someone or hurt someone, confess it . God forgives you and cleanses you . (1st John) no need to beat yourself up because that would be harming yourself .

love yourself and love others as you love yourself (gospels) because God loved you first . (1st john) with this love, love God because he's awesome . this is basically what Jesus taught . the rest is cultural exegesis.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

A good question for meditation .

in Jesus's view of sexuality i.e. Matthew 5:28 .. he as God seems to be looking at the heart of the matter not mere outer appearances .

can anyone actually draw a distinction in context of the new covenant the difference between homosexuality and heterosexuality? i'd be hard pressed to do so . human relationships are the same . you need trust for love to grow and love for trust to develop . the rest that we see with our eyes is what the apostles said in their time was "rapidly fading away" what is important is that you know Jesus loves you, and you live loved . because this world and everything in it is nothing like the world God is preparing for us . all that will be left is faith hope and love . and the greatest of these is love . because God is love . and love does not keep record of wrongs . remember to be merciful to yourself also .

hope you're well .

 

[NvxiaLee]

Conservative Bible publishers are the one's who changed the meaning of the anti-gay verses, because it increased Bible sales among conservatives. Bible Publishers are not above deception to make a profit.

Can you recommend a liberal Bible publisher, err, translation? As a seeker of truth and a hater of conservatives, I don't want to be mislead by a conservatively biased Bible translation.

(Hate might be strong word, and conservative might need the neo- prefix. But, I really don't want to be mislead by a conservatively biased Bible translation.)

 

[meliagaunt]

Thank you for raising this, paintedgoldfish, and God bless you in your quest to be yourself and find a church that accepts you as God made you.

To your question, can you be gay and a Christian, the answer is simple: yes.

To the question, can you be in a practising gay relationship and a Christian, my answer would be equally simple: yes.

I won't go over the Biblical arguments; undoubtedly there are a few verses in Leviticus and Romans that condemn some sexual practices that might be same sex: as other posters have said, there are scholars, e.g. Jeffrey John, who have argued that these refer to temple prostitution, orgies and the like.

But for those who insist that the Bible condemns homosexuality, can I put in a plea for consistency? The Bible also condemns eating shellfish (Leviticus 11) - so please ban prawn sandwiches from your churches as well as gay people. The Bible also says that adulterers (both male and female) should be put to death: get the stones ready, folks. It is ok to have slaves (Leviticus 25) provided you take them from other nations than God's people, so William Wilberforce was obviously wrong. And in case you think I'm just referring to the Old Testament, remember that those slaves should obey their masters (Ephesians 6). Oh, and I hope you don't let women speak in church: St Paul would never approve (1 Corinthians 14)!

If anybody's irony radar is malfunctioning, I don't actually believe in slavery, stoning adulterers, or avoiding prawn sandwiches, and I worked quite happily with our female vicar until she moved on recently. What I don't like is people arbitrarily taking some Biblical passages that suit their homophobic prejudices, and conveniently forgetting how problematic it is to take the Bible as a simple lawbook for Christian living.

Either accept the whole lot if you can, or else accept that God's scriptural word to us is found in the whole sweep of salvation history, focussed in Jesus' opening the Kingdom to Zaccheus, Simon the Leper, Mary Magdalene and others, and not in individual phrases taken out of context and used as magic oracles.

 

[trek4fr]

I've found the NRSV to be a good translation and the Discipleship Study Bible to be a good Bible for study. Some study Bibles focus almost entirely on academic issues involved in translation. Other study Bibles focus almost entirely on personal application. The DSB is, to me, unique in that not only does it go into fair depth on many historical/critical issues of the text, but it also focuses on how the Bible's overall thrust is on learning to live with each other. So it goes beyond fostering personal piety (which has its place, of course) to how we, as disciples of Jesus, actually treat those around us, personally and socially.

Christianbook.com has it on sale for $17.99 right now.

Hope this helps.

 

[If Not For Grace]

What I am looking for is what the Bible says on the issue.

"There is neither Jew nor Greek, neither slave nor free, neither male nor female"
when referring to the "next" life. (That's Jesus when being questioned by the relgious bunch of the day, regarding a woman who had been married several times under biblical applications) Who's wife will she be?

How many wives did King David Have? They laughed an accused him of being dead when they put a beauty beside him & he did not respond. Do you think David was a christian?

To be a Christian is not to be w/o sin? It is to seek God & Love your neighbor-do what God leads you to do...

 

[All Englands Skies]

Reading for the scripture, I think gayness is against God, you cant change that fact in my opinion.

But on the other hand, You can try, but you have to seperate yourself from the gay lifestyle, I mean, you have to force yourself against it. I dont think its possible with this new attitude where people try to balance the two.

I used to be an aggressive and racist person, I couldnt just turn around and say "its okay to be aggressive and racist and be Christian", because it contradicts Gods command to love. Regardless of what way i could spin it, if God truly touches your life, you leave behind the wrongful lifestyle (I am not saying its a battle won over night though), you cant just make exeptions for it to suit the lifestyle, because you compromising Gods commands for your own sins.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

I think heart attitudes such as Pride, Greed, Bloodlust, Fear applied to any sin or anything are the real problem .

 

[meliagaunt]

<staff edit>

Silly, silly.

'Can I be a paedophile and a Christian?'

Actually, in one sense, yes, because God's mercy and forgiveness can extend to anybody, even if we find it difficult.

However, to equate the questions about being a Paedophile or indulging in bestiality with the question that started this thread is deeply homophobic. There is a huge difference between consensual sexual activity between responsible adults and sex with minors or animals, which can never be consensual.

Just because liberal Christians don't share the same interfering judgementalism of conservatives, it doesn't mean that we believe anything goes, simply that we recognise that too often down the years people have used religion to force their own narrow-minded prejudices and desire to control on people, rather than free them to live ethical lives as mature adults within God's grace.

 

[Jase]

Thank you for raising this, paintedgoldfish, and God bless you in your quest to be yourself and find a church that accepts you as God made you.

To your question, can you be gay and a Christian, the answer is simple: yes.

To the question, can you be in a practising gay relationship and a Christian, my answer would be equally simple: yes.

I won't go over the Biblical arguments; undoubtedly there are a few verses in Leviticus and Romans that condemn some sexual practices that might be same sex: as other posters have said, there are scholars, e.g. Jeffrey John, who have argued that these refer to temple prostitution, orgies and the like.

But for those who insist that the Bible condemns homosexuality, can I put in a plea for consistency? The Bible also condemns eating shellfish (Leviticus 11) - so please ban prawn sandwiches from your churches as well as gay people. The Bible also says that adulterers (both male and female) should be put to death: get the stones ready, folks. It is ok to have slaves (Leviticus 25) provided you take them from other nations than God's people, so William Wilberforce was obviously wrong. And in case you think I'm just referring to the Old Testament, remember that those slaves should obey their masters (Ephesians 6). Oh, and I hope you don't let women speak in church: St Paul would never approve (1 Corinthians 14)!

If anybody's irony radar is malfunctioning, I don't actually believe in slavery, stoning adulterers, or avoiding prawn sandwiches, and I worked quite happily with our female vicar until she moved on recently. What I don't like is people arbitrarily taking some Biblical passages that suit their homophobic prejudices, and conveniently forgetting how problematic it is to take the Bible as a simple lawbook for Christian living.

Either accept the whole lot if you can, or else accept that God's scriptural word to us is found in the whole sweep of salvation history, focussed in Jesus' opening the Kingdom to Zaccheus, Simon the Leper, Mary Magdalene and others, and not in individual phrases taken out of context and used as magic oracles.

To add to your post for purposes of the OP, she is female. The Torah never condemns lesbians, so without expanding on the traditional view of same-sex acts beyond the Bible, female same-sex acts are not mentioned.

 

[Jase]

Reading for the scripture, I think gayness is against God, you cant change that fact in my opinion.

But on the other hand, You can try, but you have to seperate yourself from the gay lifestyle, I mean, you have to force yourself against it. I dont think its possible with this new attitude where people try to balance the two.

What is gayness and the gay lifestyle? Neither exist. And one cannot stop being gay, anymore than you could stop being straight.

I used to be an aggressive and racist person, I couldnt just turn around and say "its okay to be aggressive and racist and be Christian", because it contradicts Gods command to love. Regardless of what way i could spin it, if God truly touches your life, you leave behind the wrongful lifestyle (I am not saying its a battle won over night though), you cant just make exeptions for it to suit the lifestyle, because you compromising Gods commands for your own sins.

What does loving someone of the same-sex hurt? How does that break God's command to love?

 

[Jase]

Being a pedaphile breaks the Golden Rule, two women in a loving relationship doesn't. So no, pedaphilia will never be the next liberal question.

For the life of me I will never understand what conservatives do with Jesus', Paul's, and James' teaching of the Golden Rule. Are those parts cut out of their Bibles?

It seems as though among Fundamentalists and Conservatives, the Golden Rule only applies to people who think and believe exactly as they do.

 

[Jase]

The law should be changed to legalize relationships between adults and children, and humans and their animals. Children can give consent and the idea of getting consent from an animal is insane. In every state of the US, two same-sex adults can legally have consensual sex, but because there's so much paedophobia and beastiphobia, people having sex with children and animals are sent to jail.

The love of a father for his son is the most pure of love, why should that be a criminal offense? Why should the church condemn it?

Or, is this too soon?

I'm calling a Poe. Pro Jew one minute, Anti-Semitic posts the next, pro liberal one minute, anti liberal the next, pro pedophilia and beastiality.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

It seems as though among Fundamentalists and Conservatives, the Golden Rule only applies to people who think and believe exactly as they do.

I noticed that .