Baptist Pastor - Voddie Baucham on "Sabbath commandment before Sina"

eleos1954

God is Love
Site Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,821
5,662
Utah
✟722,940.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Regarding Hebrews 2:6 ..... my lexicon shows the greek as being anthrópos (mankind)

Strong's Greek: 444. ἄνθρωπος (anthrópos) -- a man, human, mankind

and Psalms 8:4 in Hebrew being enosh (mankind)

Strong's Hebrew: 582. אֱנוֹשׁ (enosh) -- man, mankind

and then followed by and Adam as being (son of man) son of mankind.

Adam was the first human (son of God) and also the first son (of mankind) the beginning of the human race.

as far as capitalization goes those types of grammatical "rules" were not in place back then.


This is a good point .... yes Shabbat (the 7th) was created for all of mankind ... and started with Adam.
 
Reactions: BobRyan
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,439
10,656
Georgia
✟917,305.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I encourage you to read the link I provided you with some time ago. I will repeat it if you want.
Feel free to summarize the points in your link that you find to be the most compelling.
 
Upvote 0

sparow

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2014
2,561
429
85
✟491,915.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
I don't see God commanding anyone to keep the Sabbath in Gen 2:1-3
Some people need to be told every little thing; they think God gave us an awesome brain so we could wear a hat on it. There may not be a command contained in Gen 2:2-3, but the subject of latter commands is established; the Lord Sanctified the SEVENTH DAY.
 
Upvote 0

sparow

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2014
2,561
429
85
✟491,915.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
What he does not do is claim that since the Baptist Confession of Faith affirms the TEN - which includes the Sabbath -- that this makes the Sabbath valid for today. This is not a "proof by tradition" argument he is making.

I think you missed something. I was very impressed, initially, then I heard him call Sunday both the first day and the seventh day, heard him say that the church keeps the first day as the Sabbath because Christ rose on the first day. How Sad it is, that the apologetics that followed apologizes for not keeping the commandments of God and for man changing the commandment. I can accept he was sincere, but he exceeded Pastoral licence.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,439
10,656
Georgia
✟917,305.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
no command there in Gen, bud....
God says it is there in Ex 20:11 -
Gen 2:1-3 says the Sabbath was "made a holy day" right there and Ex 20:11 makes the same point in legal code for the Sabbath

Pretty hard to ignore those Bible details.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,439
10,656
Georgia
✟917,305.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
You can keep the Sabbath if you want, but it's not a commandment by Jesus or anywhere else in the NT.
Neither is "do not take God's name in vain" found in all of the NT - but that does not "delete it" and every Christian knows this.

Using ad hoc rules as if that suffices for a basis for doctrine does not work.

"there REMAIN therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God" Heb 4
"what matters is KEEPING the Commandments of God" 1 Cor 7:19
where "'Honor your father and mother' is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2 in that still-valid unit of TEN
And of course all mankind to keep Sabbath for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth - Is 66:23

No wonder that Paul is preaching the gospel to gentiles and Jews "every Sabbath" Acts 18:4 - in the New Testament.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,439
10,656
Georgia
✟917,305.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
I think you missed something. I was very impressed, initially, then I heard him call Sunday both the first day and the seventh day, heard him say that the church keeps the first day as the Sabbath because Christ rose on the first day
He is a Southern Baptist minister so we would expect him to do both of those things.

My point in bringing him up is that on many of these threads people attack the idea that all Ten of the Ten commandments apply to all mankind still to this very day. Baucham agrees on that point and that is also reflected in his affirmation of the Baptist Confession of Faith section 19.

So then "one" of the many sticking points in this area of the board is addressed by his statements.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Canuckster

Active Member
Nov 21, 2022
181
47
57
Calgary
✟29,071.00
Country
Canada
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Single
And some people don't know the difference between a sanctification and a commandment and merge the two to suit their purpose.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,439
10,656
Georgia
✟917,305.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
And some people don't know the difference between a sanctification and a commandment and merge the two to suit their purpose.
Out of curiosity did you read the OP and answer the question there that is put for you to consider?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,439
10,656
Georgia
✟917,305.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
yes i did
what was your answer to this question?


 
Upvote 0

sparow

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2014
2,561
429
85
✟491,915.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
God says it is there in Ex 20:11 -
Gen 2:1-3 says the Sabbath was "made a holy day" right there and Ex 20:11 makes the same point in legal code for the Sabbath

Pretty hard to ignore those Bible details.
Holy is an old English word that means whole or complete, the Church has inserted a religiosity into the word; in the Hebrew I believe what is meant is, set apart, special, elevated in importance.
 
Upvote 0

sparow

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2014
2,561
429
85
✟491,915.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
I felt that false doctrine was being appeased.
 
Upvote 0

sparow

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oct 7, 2014
2,561
429
85
✟491,915.00
Country
Australia
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Single
And some people don't know the difference between a sanctification and a commandment and merge the two to suit their purpose.
I do not know what you are talking about but the two concepts are combined in the fourth commandment.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Jesse Dornfeld

Slave to Christ
Site Supporter
Oct 11, 2020
3,345
1,109
37
Twin Cities
Visit site
✟177,553.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-American-Solidarity

Sabbath does not need to be on the last day of the week though. There is evidence of this in the Bible where they "broke bread" on Sunday.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,439
10,656
Georgia
✟917,305.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Sabbath does not need to be on the last day of the week though.
Let's ask the Word of God - what day of the week is Sabbath

Ex 20:10 "The seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)"

11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day; for that reason the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Lev 23:3 ‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH) in all your dwellings.
There is evidence of this in the Bible where they "broke bread" on Sunday.
IN Acts 2 they broke bread every day from house to house - that did not make it "Sabbath" or "a holy day" set apart by God.

In the NT every single time there is a reference to the Sabbath as a weekly day of worship -- it is always the seventh day. I don't know of a single exception to that.
 
Upvote 0

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,439
10,656
Georgia
✟917,305.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Holy is an old English word that means whole or complete, the Church has inserted a religiosity into the word; in the Hebrew I believe what is meant is, set apart, special, elevated in importance.
The same word is translated as Sanctified and also as Holy Gen 2:1-3 and then in Ex 20:11
 
Upvote 0

Jesse Dornfeld

Slave to Christ
Site Supporter
Oct 11, 2020
3,345
1,109
37
Twin Cities
Visit site
✟177,553.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Celibate
Politics
US-American-Solidarity

This won't change your mind, but I think you are in error and only believe that the Sabbath is meant to be on Saturday based on a vision that is not confirmed by the Bible. Hence, the vision is in error since it does not align with the Bible. As such, it is a false teaching.

 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

BobRyan

Junior Member
Angels Team
Site Supporter
Nov 21, 2008
51,439
10,656
Georgia
✟917,305.00
Country
United States
Faith
SDA
Marital Status
Married
Sabbath does not need to be on the last day of the week though.
Let's ask the Word of God - what day of the week is Sabbath

Ex 20:10 "The seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH)"

11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day; for that reason the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Lev 23:3 ‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the LORD (YHWH) in all your dwellings.
There is evidence of this in the Bible where they "broke bread" on Sunday.
IN Acts 2 they broke bread every day from house to house - that did not make it "Sabbath" or "a holy day" set apart by God.

In the NT every single time there is a reference to the Sabbath as a weekly day of worship -- it is always the seventh day. I don't know of a single exception to that.
This won't change your mind, but I think you are in error and only believe that the Sabbath is meant to be on Saturday based on a vision that is not confirmed by the Bible.
And I think every single argument and text above - is "in the Bible" ( so then far from not being confirmed by it).

I also think you did not respond to a single point that the Bible made in the texts above - are you basing your belief on something that is not in the Bible???

Does your belief require that the texts above be dismissed?
Does your belief require that when your statements above are placed in direct contrast to the Bible statements as listed - that the whole thing be dropped?
Hence, the vision is in error since it does not align with the Bible. As such, it is a false teaching.
Which Bible text in my response above are you claiming is "not aligned with the Bible?"
 
Upvote 0