Baptist Pastor - Voddie Baucham on "Sabbath commandment before Sina"

[BobRyan]

This is where pastor Baucham deals with many objections found on this Sabbath-and-Law forum in a single sermon

1. He shows the Sabbath commandment prior to Exodus 20 - giving of the Law -- in Ex 16 and Gen 2:1-3
2. He points out that there is no good way to "delete just one" of the TEN
3. He addresses the fallacy in the argument that says -- nations should not be judged by the TEN Commandments unless they voluntarily choose to obey/accept the TEN.
4. At 17:00 he points out that because it is included in the creation order in Gen 2:1-3 -- it is not limited to "Just the Jews". (We could point out the same in Is 66:23 where it is "for all mankind" in the New Heaven and New Earth)

QUESTION: What do you think of his affirming statements about God's Sabbath prior to Sinai -- for all mankind?

(Seems to prefer some sort of "Edit" for the Sabbath to make it fit something other than what you read in the text for it - and does not do that with the other 9... interestingly enough)

============== background

Voddie Baucham Asked To Lead Southern Baptist Convention As President

Voddie Baucham is being asked to be a nominee to the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) presidency. However, he raised his concern over his eligibility for the post.

www.christianitydaily.com

"Voddie Baucham is being asked to be a nominee to the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) presidency. However, he raised his concern over his eligibility for the post.​

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"Baucham discussed the matter through a statement to The Christian Post (CP).​

​

"I have indeed been asked to accept a nomination for SBC President. While I am honored to have been asked, I am not sure I am eligible. There are questions about the way church membership is considered for missionaries," he said, citing the rules in the Articles II and VIII of the SBC Constitution.​

​

​

====== a few months later there is this

Voddie Baucham loses bid to become president of SBC Pastor’s Conference by 82 votes

Voddie Baucham, a fierce opponent of critical race theory and a beloved preacher, particularly among the more conservative wing of the Southern Baptist Convention, lost his bid to become the next ...

www.christianpost.com

"Voddie Baucham, a fierce opponent of critical race theory and a beloved preacher among the more conservative wing of the Southern Baptist Convention, lost his bid to become the next president of the SBC Pastor's Conference to a relatively unknown North Carolina pastor.​

​

"Pastor Daniel Dickard of Friendly Avenue Baptist Church in Greensboro got the nod over Baucham to preside over the two-day SBC Pastor's Conference, which takes place before annual meetings. The tightly contested voting session occurred during the denomination's annual meeting Monday.​

​

"Pastor Daniel received 690 of the 1,35​

​

Voddie Baucham - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[BobRyan]

What he does not do is claim that since the Baptist Confession of Faith affirms the TEN - which includes the Sabbath -- that this makes the Sabbath valid for today. This is not a "proof by tradition" argument he is making.

 

[Canuckster]

1. He shows the Sabbath commandment prior to Exodus 20 - giving of the Law -- in Ex 16 and Gen 2:1-3

I don't see God commanding anyone to keep the Sabbath in Gen 2:1-3

 

[BobRyan]

I don't see God commanding anyone to keep the Sabbath in Gen 2:1-3

In Ex 20:11 God says the Gen 2:1-3 fact alone - makes Sabbath binding.

Ex 20:11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day; for that reason the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Gen 2:1-3 says the same thing about God making it holy in Eden --
2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it (made it holy), because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

When God makes something Holy - then man is immediately obligated

"Take your shoes off for the place you are standing is holy ground"

Ex 3:2 Then the angel of the Lord appeared to him in a blazing fire from the midst of a bush; and he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, yet the bush was not being consumed. 3 So Moses said, “I must turn aside and see this marvelous sight, why the bush is not burning up!” 4 When the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here I am.” 5 Then He said, “Do not come near here; remove your sandals from your feet, for the place on which you are standing is holy ground.” 6 And He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” Then Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look at God.

Ex 20:8 "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it HOLY"

And as Voddie points out - in Ex 16 BEFORE the Ex 20 command we have "Tomorrow IS the Sabbath"
And in Gen 1-2 -- the one and only thing God creates on Day 7 -- the Seventh day made Holy.

===================

Now what I find most interesting is that Voddie admits to all these Bible details as a NON-Sabbath-keeping (non-Sabbatarian as some call it) Christian. He does not keep the seventh day holy yet he admits to all these very clear Bible details above.

 

[Canuckster]

In Ex 20:11 God says the Gen 2:1-3 fact alone - makes Sabbath binding.

no command there in Gen, bud....

 

[eleos1954]

I don't see God commanding anyone to keep the Sabbath in Gen 2:1-3

It is referring back to creation .... the 4th says "remember" .... remember what was already put in place. and what was put in place was the 7th day from creation and God called it the Sabbath.

The 7th day Sabbath was created for man (mankind) .... not just for any "race" of people.

Mark 2

27Then Jesus declared, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

 

[Canuckster]

It is referring back to creation .... the 4th says "remember" .... remember what was already put in place.

27Then Jesus declared, “The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28Therefore, the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Remember because they were already taught and commanded to observe it when they started collecting Manna, Exodus 16, before it was formally thundered from Sinai. The Sabbath existed since creation but there was no command to any man to observe it prior the gathering of the manna. And Mark 2 is a statement regarding Christ being the Lord of the Sabbath. It’s not a command for future believers all over the earth to observe the Sabbath. If it was of life and death importance for followers of Christ to observe the Sabbath it would have been stated as clearly and as repeatedly as the commands to abstain from sexual immorality.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Remember because they were already taught and commanded to observe it when they started collecting Manna, Exodus 16, before it was formally thundered from Sinai. The Sabbath existed since creation but there was no command to any man to observe it prior the gathering of the manna. And Mark 2 is a statement regarding Christ being the Lord of the Sabbath. It’s not a command for future believers all over the earth to observe the Sabbath. If it was of life and death importance for followers of Christ to observe the Sabbath it would have been stated as clearly and as repeatedly as the commands to abstain from sexual immorality.

I truly do not know how God could have made the Sabbath commandment more clearer. He personally engraved it on stone with His own finger Exodus 31:18 He spoke it with His own voice. Exodus 20 The Ten Commandments was placed inside the ark of the covenant in the Most Holy of God’s Temple where He dwells under His mercy seat and is in heaven. Revelation 11:19. The earthy Temple was a miniature of God’s Heavenly Temple. God’s Law is eternal and Lucifer broke these laws from the beginning because without law there is no transgression. Romans 4:15 which means there was God’s law from the very beginning in heaven and in Eden. No government can survive on lawlessness and God’s kingdom is no different. The Sabbath continues in heaven Isaiah 66:22-23 and I don’t think God is going to be okay with those who only want to keep nine of His Ten Commandments in heaven. How many times in scripture does it tell us to keep God’s commandments- it’s throughout both old and new testament and one of the last verses before the second coming of Jesus. Revelation 22:14 The Ten Commandments was placed together by God and no man can change.

God said keeping the Sabbath is a sign between God and His people. Ezekiel 20:12, Ezekiel 20:20. I can only speak for myself but I want to be one of God’s people!

According to scripture if we break one of these commandments James 2:10-12 we break them all, so there is no difference of breaking the commandment to commit adultery which includes sexual immorality or breaking God’s holy Sabbath day.

We should place our trust in God’s works Exodus 32:16 what He deems righteous Psalms 119:172 and not trust in our own works and our version of righteousness because we can’t save or sanctify ourselves, only through God’s Truth and His Word John 17:17 and all of God’s commandments are Truth. Psalms 119:151 and those who do not keep His commandments there is no Truth. 1 John 2:3-5 according to the scriptures. The Sabbath is not some hidden commandment, it’s there for all to see, but it’s the one commandment that has to do with our time. It’s an appointment every seventh day Sabbath to keep His day holy and to honor Him. Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13 and in return He delights when we keep His Sabbath and He blesses us. Isaiah 58:14

 

[Canuckster]

I truly do not know how God could have made the Sabbath commandment more clearer. He personally engraved it on stone with His own finger Exodus 31:18 He spoke it with His own voice. Exodus 20 The Ten Commandments was placed inside the ark of the covenant in the Most Holy of God’s Temple where He dwells under His mercy seat and is in heaven. Revelation 11:19. The earthy Temple was a miniature of God’s Heavenly Temple. God’s Law is eternal and Lucifer broke these laws from the beginning because without law there is no transgression. Romans 4:15 which means there was God’s law from the very beginning in heaven and in Eden. No government can survive on lawlessness and God’s kingdom is no different. The Sabbath continues in heaven Isaiah 66:22-23 and I don’t think God is going to be okay with those who only want to keep nine of His Ten Commandments in heaven. How many times in scripture does it tell us to keep God’s commandments- it’s throughout both old and new testament and one of the last verses before the second coming of Jesus. Revelation 22:14 The Ten Commandments was placed together by God and no man can change.

God said keeping the Sabbath is a sign between God and His people. Ezekiel 20:12, Ezekiel 20:20. I can only speak for myself but I want to be one of God’s people!

According to scripture if we break one of these commandments James 2:10-12 we break them all, so there is no difference of breaking the commandment to commit adultery which includes sexual immorality or breaking God’s holy Sabbath day.

We should place our trust in God’s works Exodus 32:16 what He deems righteous Psalms 119:172 and not trust in our own works and our version of righteousness because we can’t save or sanctify ourselves, only through God’s Truth and His Word John 17:17 and all of God’s commandments are Truth. Psalms 119:151 and those who do not keep His commandments there is no Truth. 1 John 2:3-5 according to the scriptures. The Sabbath is not some hidden commandment, it’s there for all to see, but it’s the one commandment that has to do with our time. It’s an appointment every seventh day Sabbath to keep His day holy and to honor Him. Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13 and in return He delights when we keep His Sabbath and He blesses us. Isaiah 58:14

It was clear alright…. clear for the children of Israel…. But the children of God are under a new contract and in that contract there’s no command to observe any Sabbaths. Anyone who wants to make an attempt at observing the old contract is welcome to do so. But it must be observed according to all that is written in the Book of the Law. Those who alter it in anyway are only fashioning their own contracts of condemnation.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

It was clear alright…. clear for the children of Israel…. But the children of God are under a new contract and in that contract there’s no command to observe any Sabbaths. Anyone who wants to make an attempt at observing the old contract is welcome to do so. But it must be observed according to all that is written in the Book of the Law. Those who alter it in anyway are only fashioning their own contracts of condemnation.

The book of the law was written by Moses Deuteronomy 31:24 and it is not the Ten Commandments written by the finger of God. Exodus 31:18 Exodus 20

God only made one contract with one people and that is with the house of Israel. Hebrews 8:10 Hebrews 10:16, Jeremiah 31:33 God only has one people and that is those who are in Christ through faith. Galatians 3:26-29. It's not very smart to think that only Jews need to keep the Ten Commandments and everyone else is free to worship other gods, bow to images, murder or covet etc..

According to scripture it says the saints keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus Revelation 14:12 and the saints are God's people not limited to Jews, but those who are in Christ through faith Gal 3:26-29 God writes His law in the hearts and minds of is people which is not Jew or Gentile.

Those who will be in the New Heaven and New earth will be coming before the Lord and worshipping every Sabbath Isaiah 66:22-23 if one does not want to keep this commandment now, not sure why they suddenly would want to in God's New Kingdom. Perhaps something to pray about.

 

[Canuckster]

The book of the law was written by Moses Deuteronomy 31:24 and it is not the Ten Commandments written by the finger of God. Exodus 31:18 Exodus 20

God only made one contract with one people and that is with the house of Israel. Hebrews 8:10 Hebrews 10:16, Jeremiah 31:33 God only has one people and that is those who are in Christ through faith. Galatians 3:26-29. It's not very smart to think that only Jews need to keep the Ten Commandments and everyone else is free to worship other gods, bow to images, murder or covet etc..

According to scripture it says the saints keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus Revelation 14:12 and the saints are God's people not limited to Jews, but those who are in Christ through faith Gal 3:26-29 God writes His law in the hearts and minds of is people which is not Jew or Gentile.

Those who will be in the New Heaven and New earth will be coming before the Lord and worshipping every Sabbath Isaiah 66:22-23 if one does not want to keep this commandment now, not sure why they suddenly would want to in God's New Kingdom. Perhaps something to pray about.

The Book of the Law was written by God through the hand of Moses. God gets all the credit for that Book. You will never find a command to keep the Sabbath towards followers of Christ. And you will never find a command before the manna for anyone to keep the Sabbath. All you can do is find scriptures that show that it was commanded to be observed in the past within the nation of Israel, and commanded to be observed in the future within a restored nation of Israel after Satan is removed and Christ rules the world. But no such command for the followers of Christ, scattered to the four corners of the earth, living in this present world ruled by Satan.

 

[eleos1954]

Remember because they were already taught and commanded to observe it when they started collecting Manna, Exodus 16, before it was formally thundered from Sinai. The Sabbath existed since creation but there was no command to any man to observe it prior the gathering of the manna. And Mark 2 is a statement regarding Christ being the Lord of the Sabbath. It’s not a command for future believers all over the earth to observe the Sabbath. If it was of life and death importance for followers of Christ to observe the Sabbath it would have been stated as clearly and as repeatedly as the commands to abstain from sexual immorality.

Jesus is our example in all things .... He kept the 7th Day Sabbath ..... good enough for me.

1 John 2:6

the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.

It is stated clearly .... and affirmed by Christ (Lord of the Sabbath) .... He created it for mankind. It is a delight.

The 10 (all of them) were spoken and written by God Himself and placed in the ark (permanent and unchangeable) .... what else do you want?

It is the same God (Jesus) throughout the entire bible (OT/NT) it is a continuous narrative, continues until His return.

He don't change.

God Himself said, “I am the LORD; I change not” (Malachi 3:6). The Bible says He is the Father of lights with whom there is no change or variation (James 1:17). This means God will never be less than He is now, or ever be different from what He has already revealed Himself to be in the past.

Hebrews 4

8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath rest for the people of God. 10For whoever enters God’s rest also rests from his own work, just as God did from His

for the people of God (not just the Jews) and obviously referring back to creation.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The Book of the Law was written by God through the hand of Moses. God gets all the credit for that Book.

These are two different things. All scripture is God-breathed but God personally wrote and spoke the Ten Commandments, that is God's work alone. Exodus 32:16 He didn't leave it up to man to write His holy commandments.

You will never find a command to keep the Sabbath towards followers of Christ.

If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15 which Jesus repeated right from the Ten Commandments Exodus 20:6. Jesus kept all of His Fathers commandments including the Sabbath John 15:10, Luke 4:16 and we are told to follow His example 1 John 2:6

And you will never find a command before the manna for anyone to keep the Sabbath.

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man Mark 2:28 and man was created on the sixth day Genesis 1:26 right before the first Sabbath in the presence of God. Genesis 2:1-3. Sin separated man from God and when Jesus comes sin and sinners will be no more and the Sabbath will continue to be the day of worship in the presence of the Lord Isaiah 66:22-23

All you can do is find scriptures that show that it was commanded to be observed in the past within the nation of Israel, and commanded to be observed in the future within a restored nation of Israel after Satan is removed and Christ rules the world. But no such command for the followers of Christ, scattered to the four corners of the earth, living in this present world ruled by Satan.

The Sabbath is all throughout the New Testament observed by Jesus Luke 4:16, John15:10 and the apostles Acts 18:4, Acts 13:44, Acts 13:42. Jesus taught on His Fathers commandments often Matthew 15:3-9, Matthew 5:17-30, Matthew 19:17-19 John 14:15 and the apostles Cor 7:19, John 14:15, 1 John 5:3, 1 John 2:3-6 so your argument seems to be with the text.

 

[BobRyan]

no command there in Gen, bud....

Until you read the command in Ex 20 informing us that the command in Gen 2:1-3 alone - makes it binding.

Apparently Voddie Buacham also noticed this Bible detail being affirmed in the Baptist Confession of Faith sectn 19.

 

[BobRyan]

The Book of the Law was written by God through the hand of Moses. God gets all the credit for that Book. You will never find a command to keep the Sabbath towards followers of Christ.

Unless you admit that followers of Christ are members of mankind and that they will be in the New Earth of Rev 21.

"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" Is 66:23 in the new heavens and new Earth.

In Acts 13 - the believing gentiles who accepted Paul's gospel as for MORE Gospel preaching to be given "The next Sabbath".

In the NT saints "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12, 1 John 5:3-4

And you will never find a command before the manna for anyone to keep the Sabbath.

And you will never find a command to not take God's name in vain -- before Sinai.

Even D.L. Moody and the Baptist Confession of Faith sectn 19 notice that the TEN are valid since Genesis 2 - which apparently Voddie Baucham also affirms.

 

[Canuckster]

Jesus is our example in all things .... He kept the 7th Day Sabbath ..... good enough for me.

Of course He did as did all the Jews who were from the nation of Israel living in Judea. It was their custom. And they also observed all high Sabbaths, feast days and other observances etc... The old covenant with the Sabbaths and feasts were commanded to be observed as a nation, by the people of Israel within the nation of Israel. It was never commanded to be observed by any of the other peoples and nations of the world outside of Judea. Why would the new covenant change that and start commanding individuals living in the remotest parts of the globe to start observing the Sabbath, (or all the other Sabbaths, feast days and other observances), as a requirement for eternal salvation? This is a man made doctrine that lacks any sense.

 

[Canuckster]

Until you read the command in Ex 20 informing us that the command in Gen 2:1-3 alone - makes it binding.

That’s not a commandment in Genius 2:1-3, it’s a sanctification. There was only one commandment to man after the creation and that's in Genius 2: 16-17

 

[Canuckster]

And you will never find a command to not take God's name in vain -- before Sinai.

That's correct.... and a whole lot of other commandments you won’t find before Sinai.... But there’s no evidence of Sabbath observance by the men of God before Sinai while there’s plenty of evidence of respect towards His Name…. and He didn’t have to command it either.

 

[BobRyan]

Of course He did as did all the Jews who were from the nation of Israel living in Judea. It was their custom. And they also observed all high Sabbaths, feast days and other observances etc... The old covenant with the Sabbaths and feasts were commanded to be observed as a nation, by the people of Israel within the nation of Israel.

True of the Lev 23 yearly feasts/Sabbaths.

Not true of the Gen 2:1-3 Sanctified holy day of God - the 7th day. Ex 20:11. where "all mankind" are to come before God and worship even in the New Earth for all eternity after the cross - "from Sabbath to Sabbath" Is 66:23

All mankind - covers a lot of territory.
For all eternity in the New Earth - covers a lot of time.

It was never commanded to be observed by any of the other peoples

Until you read the texts above.
As Jesus said in Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was made for mankind"

Why would the new covenant change that and start commanding individuals living in the remotest parts of the globe to start observing the Sabbath,

Hmm - let's read the New Covenant when we talk about it so we can see why Voddie , the Baptist Confession of Faith, the Westminster Confession of Faith and almost all major denominations admit that the Sabbath commandment still exists in that law of the Jer 31 New Covenant.

Jer 31:31-34

31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “For this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord: “I will put My law within them and write it on their heart; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their wrongdoing, and their sin I will no longer remember.”

Note - it is verbatim the same in the New Testament as in Jer 31 -- quoted verbatim Heb 8:6-12

The Sabbath is "made for mankind" and for "all mankind" to come before God to worship "from Sabbath to Sabbath" for all eternity in the new Earth even.

By contrast the NEW Covenant is for "The House of Israel".

Man made doctrine and tradition that tries to delete one of the Ten Commandments is addressed by Christ in Mark 7:6-13 as He slam hammers that tradition "sola scriptura" in that chapter.

 

[BobRyan]

That’s not a commandment in Genius 2:1-3, it’s a sanctification.

Its the same word in both Gen 2:1-3 and Ex 20:11 for "made holy" and "Sanctified" - set apart, made holy - made binding on mankind.

The point remains.