baptism

[TerryWoodenpic]

Really. That's funny given I've watched people get baptized more than once.

Not in any of the episcopal churches you haven't. (Including Catholics, Orthodox and Anglicans.....) Though there are two occasions where it might be done, Firstly where it is not known known, for sure, if it was done previously.
And in cases where the Trinitarian form was not used by a non trinitarian church, or where it might not have been used in the previous baptism.
These are really conditional baptisms, Just in case....
They are never done again, when it is known that they were correctly done previously, and never just as a repeat.

 

[Meowzltov]

That said... why is being 22 years of being a Christian without baptism 'scandalous'?

It is disobedient. "Repent and be baptized every one of you for the forgiveness of sins."

 

[Meowzltov]

Really. That's funny given I've watched people get baptized more than once.

And that's another act of disobedience. One Lord, one faith, one baptism. Only in cases where a baptism is invalid, such as when it is not trinitarian, can another baptism be done which would be valid.

But these people who get rebaptized because they don't like their childhood baptisms? Scandalous!

 

[Meowzltov]

sorry you have resentments towards your parents

so far we have pretty good communication with our child, so I don't think there are any resentments
I also started a journal between us (mother and daughter) last year so she shares questions/concerns with me and that is often easier done on paper

Awww! You are a good mom.

 

[Meowzltov]

she's only 10 and many here have answered it might be better to wait until she has better understanding

(we are first time parents and I imagine we don't do everything right but we do focus on our child and always try to do the best for her, hence my starting this thread)

What understanding does she not yet have? She knows that she sins and that her sins will send her to hell. She knows therefore that she needs a savior. She knows Jesus died for her sins, rose from the dead, and will come again. What more does she need for baptism than that?

 

[Dave-W]

Baptism is a public declaration of faith.

Not scriptural. Baptism is the burial of the dead flesh - the "old man."

Colossians 2:12
having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Romans 6:4
Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.​

Baptism does not do anything for you.

Actually, it is a spiritual transaction that does a LOT.

 

[Dave-W]

maybe herein ^ lies the true problem; we
need to discuss what he believes vs my belief vs child

don't know if this blogger/Pastor explains it well or not but interesting that he states at end that he struggles with what he believes
Baptism: Sacrament or Ordinance? - Tim Challies

Christine: Baptism is VERY important. I suggest you carve out some time and listen to these:

 

[shannon T daringer]

sorry if this is a repeat; unable to do searches for some reason today


baby dedication at age 2 when we adopted her

she is now 10 and have been thinking about baptism lately
husband and I were both baptised as infants

should we should wait until our child expresses interest in being baptised with other adults?
or look into having her baptised with infants now?

Jonah chapter 2 is one of the best descriptions of a baptism i've ever read..even Jesus was at a certain age before being baptised. Their is not only age requirement but also need requirement for baptism..both have a recognition of why they are being baptised..which a baby would not.
And once being baptised..there is a need to go further..why did you do it and where do you take it..growth

 

[tampasteve]

Jonah chapter 2 is one of the best descriptions of a baptism i've ever read..even Jesus was at a certain age before being baptised. Their is not only age requirement but also need requirement for baptism..both have a recognition of why they are being baptised..which a baby would not.
And once being baptised..there is a need to go further..why did you do it and where do you take it..growth

I have heard about Jonah being a baptism foreshadow, and I like it.

However, Jonah would have been familiar with using natural or man made mikvah. Baptism as we know it started with John, we don't know the ages of people he baptized. What we do know is that it was more like how Jewish people use a Mikvah, of which a river would be a perfectly valid mikvah. When babies convert with their families to the Jewish faith they are fully immersed in the water to make the conversion permanent and later make a declaration, as all young Jewish adults do.

Baptism and mikvah use are not a perfect analogy for each other, but they did develop from each other. What I am getting at is that we really don't know that there is a limit to the age to baptize, it's more of a belief that develops based on ones denomination or faith background. Both positions are supportable from history, with infant baptizm being seen conclusively further back as the only solid refutation of it doesn't start showing until the reformation. But the only solid mention of it doesn't come until around the 200s.

 

[mama2one]

What understanding does she not yet have? She knows that she sins and that her sins will send her to hell. She knows therefore that she needs a savior. She knows Jesus died for her sins, rose from the dead, and will come again. What more does she need for baptism than that?

talked in the car with her this morn on the way to school
asked if they have talked about sin in Sunday school
answer: no
asked her if she knew what sin was and she struggled to answer and answered with a question

so apparently, she isn't ready

 

[Paidiske]

Well, that gives you a useful starting point in thinking about preparing her, I guess.

 

[mama2one]

because our child didn't start learning English or any language until she was 2, she became good at guessing what we asked and often I thought she understood the meaning of something but she didn't

guess that by her answers to many things re God, Jesus, the Bible, I thought she had a good understanding but realized this morning, she does NOT

 

[Paidiske]

It's hard when there's a speech problem in there as well. I often find I underestimate how much my daughter really understands, because she can't put it into words. Then something will happen and she'll surprise me.

Is it worth looking into faith resources developed for kids whose learning style isn't verbal? There is some good stuff out there, but I found I really had to search hard to find it.

 

[mama2one]

Well, that gives you a useful starting point in thinking about preparing her, I guess.

agree

 

[mama2one]

she does get reading intervention at school now; fortunately they recognized she needed it this year
so thankful for that

 

[mama2one]

Is it worth looking into faith resources developed for kids whose learning style isn't verbal? There is some good stuff out there, but I found I really had to search hard to find it.

got her latest Bible (for Christmas) but it is still a fairly simple kid's version with only picked parts of the Bible
she really isn't ready for more

I'll go back to the Christian as well as Catholic bookstores to see what other good resources I can find for her

thanks

 

[shannon T daringer]

I have heard about Jonah being a baptism foreshadow, and I like it.

However, Jonah would have been familiar with using natural or man made mikvah. Baptism as we know it started with John, we don't know the ages of people he baptized. What we do know is that it was more like how Jewish people use a Mikvah, of which a river would be a perfectly valid mikvah. When babies convert with their families to the Jewish faith they are fully immersed in the water to make the conversion permanent and later make a declaration, as all young Jewish adults do.

Baptism and mikvah use are not a perfect analogy for each other, but they did develop from each other. What I am getting at is that we really don't know that there is a limit to the age to baptize, it's more of a belief that develops based on ones denomination or faith background. Both positions are supportable from history, with infant baptizm being seen conclusively further back as the only solid refutation of it doesn't start showing until the reformation. But the only solid mention of it doesn't come until around the 200s.

I would personally go for a Jewish form.. early on..rather than an early Catholic. I know that times have changed..but that does not mean that the ways God or the people associated with the process have got it wrong.

 

[Meowzltov]

talked in the car with her this morn on the way to school
asked if they have talked about sin in Sunday school
answer: no
asked her if she knew what sin was and she struggled to answer and answered with a question

so apparently, she isn't ready

I'm sorry that you have such an incompetent Sunday School. You can make your own choices, but if my church weren't teaching my kids the gospel, I'd switch churches.

She is old enough to learn. Remember that the primary responsibility for the religious education of children falls on the parent. I'd start taking her out for ice cream and teach her yourself.

1. Spend a week on the fall and sin and the need for a savior.
2. Spend another week on Israel's exodus and the giving of the commandments and the promise of a Messiah.
3. Then the Annunciation, Nativity, the incarnation, two natures of Jesus, the basic Trinity. Then the life of Jesus, his preaching and miracles; give a few choice examples from the scriptures.
4. Then cover the basics of the last supper,his arrest, trial, crucifixion, and resurrection, and talk about how Jesus' death paid the penalty for our sins so that we can go to heaven -- this is the Gospel.
5. Next, talk about how we "believe and are baptized for the forgiveness of sins," how we are saved through Grace through faith and respond to grace with obedience and good works.
6. Finally talk about how Christ will come again, we will be resurrected, the Great Judgment will occur, and we will live eternally. That about covers everything in

 

[mama2one]

I'm sorry that you have such an incompetent Sunday School.
She is old enough to learn.
[/LIST]

thanks for your input

do believe the Sunday schools our child has attended as well as the vacation Bible school approach topics at the kid's level and ability to understand

before becoming a parent, I taught Sunday school for 3 rd graders
might still have the teaching materials the church gave me and can use for my child

thanks again

 

[Albion]

Christine,

Personally, I think you should have her baptized, your pastor permitting, without a big delay unless there is some other consideration. We baptize infants, just as you were baptized yourself, and your husband was, and most Christians throughout the history of the Church have been.

This is Gods sacrament; it does not become what it is because we have achieved a level of wisdom concerning all the things of God. For that matter, in churches which do not allow infant baptisms, there are tens of thousands of teenagers (plus, in some cases, ten and even eight year olds) being baptized...and I am certain that the level of understanding that most of them have is not significantly more polished hers appears to be.

Based on what you have already told us about her statements, I would think that one evening of tutoring her in the nature of sin, etc. etc. should fill in the gaps that are causing you to hesitate.