baptism

[mama2one]

husband has surprised me with taking a personal day off work so now we will have some time to ourselves with child at school and can also talk about everyone's advice
thanks again

 

[Cement]

People saying babies can’t consciously choose God are right in a way but it doesn’t not mean that God can’t communicate with babies the same way he does with you and me. We are all souls in fleshly bodies and souls have a mind outside the body. The body is a vehicle through which we can interact in the material world. I’m sure that in believers the Holy Spirit may start working within us even before we are born. Look at Jeremiah for reference.

 

[Paidiske]

Within traditional Christian practice, circumcision was replaced by baptism; and the 40th day presentation was replaced by the rite of the "churching of women" (perhaps @Paidiske can comment on whether Anglicans still have a liturgy for that).

To my enormous gratitude, the churching of women has been replaced in the most recent prayer book in my province with a rite of "thanksgiving for a child." I have heard of the churching of women still being done in one of the groups which has broken away from the Anglican communion.

 

[Andrew77]

she was the only toddler at baby dedication which occurred a mos after our child came home from another country

why wouldn't we do the dedication?

There is no reason to not do a dedication. We say "you are dedicating your baby", but it actually has nothing to do with the baby. It has to do with you as the parent. It's about you acknowledging that this baby that is yours, is really the Lords.

Baptism, is about the person. Baptism is YOUR choice, about making public YOUR faith.

This is why I discourage parents from every trying to push, or nudge, or anything, to get their kid to get baptized. It defeats the purpose.

You can get kids to do anything. You can get kids to eat Tide Pods. You can get kids to carry bombs into a night club in Israel.

None of that reflects on them, but rather the people to pushed them to do crazy things.

A parent pushes a child to get baptized, then it effectively means nothing about the child anymore, but rather the parent.

Baptism is never supposed to be that. It is supposed to be a direct personal choice of the person doing it, to show the faith in their heart.

I was actually glad that my parents never pushed me to get baptized. I got baptized in my 30s, and when I got baptized, it meant something to ME. Because I was making a statement of my own faith. I was not doing it for any other reason, than for the Lord G-d of Heaven.

 

[JoeP222w]

And their households

But to say that means babies, that is eisegesis (reading into the text).

Baptism does not give assurance of eternal life.

I did not say it did. But if you falsely baptize someone who is not a believer in Jesus Christ, they will also falsely believe that they are righteous before God because of such a false baptism.

 

[Meowzltov]

sorry if this is a repeat; unable to do searches for some reason today


baby dedication at age 2 when we adopted her

she is now 10 and have been thinking about baptism lately
husband and I were both baptised as infants

should we should wait until our child expresses interest in being baptised with other adults?
or look into having her baptised with infants now?

Why i the world are you withholding baptism from her?????

 

[Meowzltov]

sorry if this is a repeat; unable to do searches for some reason today


baby dedication at age 2 when we adopted her

she is now 10 and have been thinking about baptism lately
husband and I were both baptised as infants

should we should wait until our child expresses interest in being baptised with other adults?
or look into having her baptised with infants now?

Why in the world are you withholding baptism from her?

The one thing I still resent about my parents is that they withheld baptism from me.

 

[mama2one]

Why i the world are you withholding baptism from her?????

she's only 10 and many here have answered it might be better to wait until she has better understanding

(we are first time parents and I imagine we don't do everything right but we do focus on our child and always try to do the best for her, hence my starting this thread)

 

[mama2one]

The one thing I still resent about my parents is that they withheld baptism from me.

sorry you have resentments towards your parents

so far we have pretty good communication with our child, so I don't think there are any resentments
I also started a journal between us (mother and daughter) last year so she shares questions/concerns with me and that is often easier done on paper

 

[Andrew77]

Why in the world are you withholding baptism from her?

The one thing I still resent about my parents is that they withheld baptism from me.

Withheld? So you mean that you said you wanted to be baptized, and they refused?
I can't imagine any reason a christian parent would do this.

Even so, why would you resent it? You can get baptized at any point. As long as you follow in the foot steps of Jesus, you are denied nothing.

You do realize that as a Christian, you are required to forgive, and that includes your parents for withholding baptism.

You realize the fact you are still holding resentment, is a direct contradiction to what Baptism stands for? Do you see my logic?

Baptism symbolizes you being buried with Christ, when you go down into the water, and the resurrection with Christ, as you come up from the water.

And why did Christ do this? Why was he buried, and resurrected? To forgive sin. You are still resenting your parents. Are you really being buried and resurrected with Christ, if you can't even forgive, and stop resenting your own parents?

I'm just asking. Something you should think about.

 

[Meowzltov]

Withheld? So you mean that you said you wanted to be baptized, and they refused?
I can't imagine any reason a christian parent would do this.

First, they withheld baptism from me when I was born, despite the fact that the Methodist church does baptize infants. I was to be raised in the church, raised in Christ, and by those who would certain be sure to make sure I would know him. I would grow up being a part of the church, so why withhold me entrance into the Church? It makes no sense.

When I was old enough that I consciously made a decision for Christ (I won't say received Christ, because I had always known the Lord), my parents should have at that time sat down with me and instructed me that this decision was to be accompanied by baptism. But AGAIN they failed me.

And then yet again, when I was eleven, and figured things out for myself, and asked to be baptized, they did not consider it of great concern (they are of the opinion that it doesn't matter if you get baptized or not) and suddenly began attending a Friends (Quaker) Church which taught that baptism was a wrong idea.

Thus commenced the years of my brainwashing that really messed me up, until I could discuss baptism and not even remember that I was unbaptized or that it was an issue. It took until I was 22 for all the brainwashing to finally dissolve. That's 22 years of being a Christian without being baptized. And that's scandalous.

You do realize that as a Christian, you are required to forgive, and that includes your parents for withholding baptism.

Yes I know. And I do. But then out of the blue, the subject comes up and those old feelings come up again, and then I have to forgive them once more.

 

[Andrew77]

First, they withheld baptism from me when I was born, despite the fact that the Methodist church does baptize infants. I was to be raised in the church, raised in Christ, and by those who would certain be sure to make sure I would know him. I would grow up being a part of the church, so why withhold me entrance into the Church? It makes no sense.

When I was old enough that I consciously made a decision for Christ (I won't say received Christ, because I had always known the Lord), my parents should have at that time sat down with me and instructed me that this decision was to be accompanied by baptism. But AGAIN they failed me.

And then yet again, when I was eleven, and figured things out for myself, and asked to be baptized, they did not consider it of great concern (they are of the opinion that it doesn't matter if you get baptized or not) and suddenly began attending a Friends (Quaker) Church which taught that baptism was a wrong idea.

Thus commenced the years of my brainwashing that really messed me up, until I could discuss baptism and not even remember that I was unbaptized or that it was an issue. It took until I was 22 for all the brainwashing to finally dissolve. That's 22 years of being a Christian without being baptized. And that's scandalous.

Yes I know. And I do. But then out of the blue, the subject comes up and those old feelings come up again, and then I have to forgive them once more.

Good answers there.

That said... why is being 22 years of being a Christian without baptism 'scandalous'?

What is the scandal? I knew a lady that wasn't baptized until she was in her 50s.

We had a guy at my church, realize he wasn't baptized, and got it done in his 40s, after being in the church over 10 years. He just never thought about it. Then when he did, he decided that he wanted his faith public, and wanted to have this done.

You did it. You got baptized. All that stuff before is not only unimportant, it's irrelevant.

The old man is dead. The new man (or woman) is alive. You should be dead to that past. That past, is past, and you need to bury that past, in the watery grave with Christ. There is nothing scandalous.

I don't know much about the faith groups you are in, but the Bible doesn't have this 'scandalous' thing where if you don't get baptized, you are somehow unclean and shamed. It sounds to me like you have some strange teachings in your head, that are not in the bible.

You show me where they flicked water on babies in the bible, for baptism. You show me where if you are not baptized immediately, you are shamed for it.

If you read my post from before, I was in my 30s when I got baptized. It never occurred to me to even consider the years before as being worthy of my thought.

Let this go hon. You are clean and pure before the Lord. Nothing here to be resentful for.

 

[TerryWoodenpic]

I don't see any place anywhere in the Bible, where infants are baptized.

Baptism is for people wanting to make their faith in Jesus Christ, public.

So by definition, the individual in question has to make the choice THEMSELVES, that they want to be a Christian.

Splashing water on someone, doesn't make them Christian, anymore than sitting in a garage makes you a BMW, or sitting in a barn makes you a cow.

Baptism should only be done when the person in question understands what being Christian is. That they are sinners. That they are flawed human beings. That they need a savor to save them from their own sins and flaws. And that they want Jesus as their Lord, and King of their life.

And when they reach that point, then they want to show this publicly in baptism.

Lastly, I would rather this child wait until they are 30 if that is what they want, rather than to fake it, pretend to be Christian, just so they can make their parents happy they got dunked in water.

It is better to have real honest people, than people who fake and pretend because their parents want them baptized. The goal you need to be seeking, is heart change. You want their Heart to be turned to the good, and away from the evil. Not their skin getting wet.

I'm saying this, because I had a lady friend that was baptized, but she was baptized because her parents demanded it from her. She end up screwing around, got into drugs, married a drug dealer, he started beating her, her life was a complete and total train wreck.

She became a real Christian in her 50s. She got baptized, this time for real, because her heart was real this time, in her late 50s.

The first time she got "baptized" meant nothing more than water being splashed on her.

However, because she did this fake thing, she thought she was good, and didn't change her life. That's why she had to get in her 50s, and into drugs and being beaten, before she figured out she need real change.

Don't push your child to do something that isn't real. Real heart change is the goal. Not splashing water.

Baptism is something God does, not something you do.
Adult or child, God decides and acts, in both cases we only comply.
It can neither be partly done, done again, nor undone.

 

[Andrew77]

Baptism is something God does, not something you do.
Adult or child, God decides and acts, in both cases we only comply.
It can neither be partly done, done again, nor undone.

Really. That's funny given I've watched people get baptized more than once.

 

[Paidiske]

Really. That's funny given I've watched people get baptized more than once.

But the perspective of most Christians would be that only one was a valid baptism. Any re-baptisms after that would not add anything to the first one.

 

[Andrew77]

But the perspective of most Christians would be that only one was a valid baptism. Any re-baptisms after that would not add anything to the first one.

Baptism is a public declaration of faith.

Baptism does not do anything for you. You are not more holy, because you got baptized. You are not more "saved" because you got baptized. Baptism doesn't do anything for you, the first, last, or any time.

Baptism, is you making your faith public.

That's all. You don't need to be baptized more than once, I agree. Jesus only said we are to be baptized.

But if you got baptized, and lived like a hellion, your public declaration of faith was destroyed by how you lived.

If you turn back to the Lord, you may wish to be baptized again, to show publicly your faith is real.
I know people who have done exactly that.

 

[Paidiske]

Well, many of us believe that God does something for us in baptism. But this is not a debate forum.

 

[mama2one]

Well, many of us believe that God does something for us in baptism. But this is not a debate forum.

maybe herein ^ lies the true problem; we
need to discuss what he believes vs my belief vs child

don't know if this blogger/Pastor explains it well or not but interesting that he states at end that he struggles with what he believes
Baptism: Sacrament or Ordinance? - Tim Challies

 

[mama2one]

we have been married a long time but don't know his beliefs on everything
although we are Christian, we don't have lengthy discussions on raising our child as we seem to be on the same page about everything so far
but we still haven't had time to discuss Baptism in length since I started this thread

 

[Radagast]

don't know if this blogger/Pastor explains it well or not but interesting that he states at end that he struggles with what he believes
Baptism: Sacrament or Ordinance? - Tim Challies

This would be the traditional Reformed view:

Article 34: The Sacrament of Baptism (Belgic Confession)
We believe and confess that Jesus Christ,
in whom the law is fulfilled,
has by his shed blood
put an end to every other shedding of blood,
which anyone might do or wish to do
in order to atone or satisfy for sins.

Having abolished circumcision,
which was done with blood,
Christ established in its place
the sacrament of baptism.

By it we are received into God’s church
and set apart from all other people and alien religions,
that we may wholly belong to him
whose mark and sign we bear.

Baptism also witnesses to us
that God, being our gracious Father,
will be our God forever.

Therefore Christ has commanded
that all those who belong to him
be baptized with pure water
“in the name of the Father and of the Son
and of the Holy Spirit.” {Matthew 28:19}

In this way God signifies to us
that just as water washes away the dirt of the body
when it is poured on us
and also is seen on the bodies of those who are baptized
when it is sprinkled on them,
so too the blood of Christ does the same thing internally,
in the soul, by the Holy Spirit.

It washes and cleanses it from its sins
and transforms us from being the children of wrath
into the children of God.

This does not happen by the physical water
but by the sprinkling of the precious blood of the Son of God,
who is our Red Sea,
through which we must pass
to escape the tyranny of Pharaoh,
who is the devil,
and to enter the spiritual land of Canaan.

So ministers, as far as their work is concerned,
give us the sacrament and what is visible,
but our Lord gives what the sacrament signifies—
namely the invisible gifts and graces;
washing, purifying, and cleansing our souls
of all filth and unrighteousness;
renewing our hearts and filling them
with all comfort;
giving us true assurance
of his fatherly goodness;
clothing us with the “new self”
and stripping off the “old self
with its practices.” {Colossians 3:9-10}

For this reason we believe that
anyone who aspires to reach eternal life
ought to be baptized only once
without ever repeating it—
for we cannot be born twice.
Yet this baptism is profitable
not only when the water is on us
and when we receive it
but throughout our entire lives.

For that reason we reject the error of the Anabaptists
who are not content with a single baptism
once received and also condemn the baptism
of the children of believers.

We believe our children ought to be baptized
and sealed with the sign of the covenant,
as little children were circumcised in Israel
on the basis of the same promises
made to our children.

And truly, Christ has shed his blood no less
for washing the little children of believers than he did for adults.

Therefore they ought to receive the sign and sacrament
of what Christ has done for them,
just as the Lord commanded in the law that
by offering a lamb for them
the sacrament of the suffering and death of Christ
would be granted them
shortly after their birth.
This was the sacrament of Jesus Christ.

Furthermore, baptism does for our children
what circumcision did for the Jewish people.
That is why Paul calls baptism
the “circumcision of Christ.” {Colossians 2:11}