Baptism without immersion, should I go ahead?

[☦Marius☦]

Guys, please simmer down and take a step back. This is the sort of behaviour that splits the church of Christ. Everyone insist on being right and discards what the other said. We have to remember that apart from the Lord, no one holds the truth.
My original plight has long been lost beneath an argument about tradition and interpretation and by now it seems it is more about being right and seeking the truth.
So please, do not let pride get the better of you. Be loving and stop arguing among yourselves. Take a break and come back with a renewed mind.
While I wanted to discuss this issue, but had I known that it leads to arguments such as these, I probably wouldn’t have. The unity of the body of Christ and peaceful conduct among brethren is more significant to me than whatever I wanted to know.

In short, chill out

Welcome to Christian Forums

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No there wasn't always unity, but how did they solve that?

The difference with the ones faithful to Yahweh , abiding in Jesus,
and since then, has been that the ones faithful always knew to stay in line with all Scripture, in Perfect Harmony with all Scripture, without contradicting any Scripture, as God led them and trained them and taught them in His Word and again as Jesus Praised the Father for as God the Father REVEALED THE TRUTH about Salvation AND everything concerning Salvation in this life and in the life to come
to those 'little children' ;
as this was and is the Father's Good Pleasure so to do, as always.

 

[LoricaLady]

The main problem over the earth is the false gospel that claims people don't have to repent.
That they don't have to turn to God and do what God says to do.
That they should just be left to live as they want to live, and don't try to change them.
That everyone should just join together and forget differences, and 'be' 'one' in what the world calls 'good', and what God calls an abomination and death.

Amen.

Because some Christians believe that there are people blessed with the gift of spiritual analysis and theological understanding that the rest of us could only dream of. Not only that but the apostles themselves didn't trust each other's "private interpretation" of scripture- which is why they held the first church council to decide the matter of circumcision. We are all corrupted to some degree. That means our personal way of thinking has corruption- therefore our way of reading the Bible can be corrupted. We should not rely on ANY individual to interpret scripture, as that is exactly what the pope does when he invokes infallibility. Instead we should submit to the Church Councils as that is what the apostles established as the proper method for deciding doctrine.

There weren't any "Church councils" with the Apostles, as there was no such thing as a Church, which translated only means a body of believers, ie. ecclesia. They did consult with one another as can be seen in Acts 21. However, we also see them using their own minds and sometimes being directed personally and individually by the Almighty. Did Ananias have to get a council together to go to Paul, the mortal enemy of believers? Did Cornelius have to get permission or direction from a council or some human authority to seek Peter? Sometimes a gathering of believers can be very helpful. Proverbs tells us to seek wisdom. We are a gathering of believers here!

However, I think it helps to remember that none of the believers in the Bible had gone to Seminary. Also, the Scriptures say "You need that no man should teach you, but the Holy Spirit will teach you."

If people want to seek out those they feel have a lot of wisdom, fine. But too many times the "authorities" and "experts" are teaching things that are not really Biblical. Again, we all have our own minds and generally at least one Bible. The Bible is the ultimate authority, not any mortal, and we all need to know it well so that no mortal confuses us.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

we all need to know it well so that no mortal confuses us.

This is true , especially know His Word as Yahweh grants understanding of all,
and
the Good Shepherd also says "My Sheep Know My Voice and Follow Me - they will not follow another". (surprisingly few ever realize this ! ! )
As He Shepherd's us, He guards us, and leads us to still waters, and makes us lay down in green pastures, and restores our souls. He comforts us.

All the confusion in the world, even amongst believers, is from other voices, not the Shepherd's.

 

[LoricaLady]

No there wasn't always unity, but how did they solve that? They held a Church council and collectively decided what would be the proper teaching- and they tell us that the Holy Spirit influenced them as a group.

Then they collectively submitted to the decision and the Church remained one.

However, again, they didn't do that all the time, not by any means. Again, they often acted independently and got instructions and direction directly from the Almighty.

Why are we to assume that this person or that group is really wise or really Biblical just because they set up a council or went to some Seminary? How can we tell? By being very, very familiar with the Bible and having a personal relationship with the Holy Spirit. Why are we told "You need that no man should teach you, but the Holy Spirit will teach you." And where does He most often teach us? Not from mortals but from the Bible.

 

[frater_domus]

No there wasn't always unity, but how did they solve that? They held a Church council and collectively decided what would be the proper teaching- and they tell us that the Holy Spirit influenced them as a group.

Then they collectively submitted to the decision and the Church remained one.

Precisely my point. Collective prayer and a will to solve a problem together to glorify God, not self.

Welcome to Christian Forums

I know it was meant as a joke, and usually I would chuckle, but this in particular is something that deeply concerns me. Internet communication and the annonymity thereof tends to remove certain inhibitions, which can lead even the best-meaning person down the path of ugliness.
I am sure the posters here meant well, but looking back at it, the thread has gone off topic a while ago. Sure, it is still about baptism, but the person and concerns of said person have disappeared in favour of a discussion about rules. This feels like the Pharisees discussing whether or not one can heal on the sabbath without consideration of person who is suffering from a disease.
Again, I do not mean offense, but sometimes it is truly better to take a step back and take a look at the whole picture

 

[Job3315]

Having finally overcome my reservations about church communities, I found my desire to be baptized. This usually includes a few weeks of studying things about bible and church, which I do not understand, but it isn't bothering me. What bothers me is that they practice baptism without immersion, something I just found out. I am not sure how I feel. Maybe it is because most things I know I learned from Baptists or because the word 'baptizo' means 'immerse' or because the bible only ever mentions places with sufficient water as places of baptism, either way, it bothers me and I am not sure how to react. I feel bad going to them and suddenly call it off, but I am not sure how to feel about baptism without immersion. I know that it isn't technically in the bible, but it is what I was looking forward to and what I imagined.

Any thoughts on how to handle it?

I would express my concerns with the leaders of the church. A healthy church welcomes the concerns of its congregation. The immersion is important because as you feel your whole body being submerged, it will give you a realization that you have died to the world and are a new creation in Christ. Meaning, you become aware that His blood covered you and sealed you (sort of like a glaze). This just a physical representation (to you) of what is happening in the spiritual and it shows your commitment to the Lord to follow Him as His disciple, and also a visual representation to others about your serious commitment.

 

[Radagast]

Having finally overcome my reservations about church communities, I found my desire to be baptized. This usually includes a few weeks of studying things about bible and church, which I do not understand, but it isn't bothering me. What bothers me is that they practice baptism without immersion, something I just found out. I am not sure how I feel.

Short answer is that you should join a church, and be baptised the way that they baptise.

 

[Radagast]

To be frank, I have very little experience with all the different denominations, as I am against the whole concept. It fractures the body of Christ and breeds elitism, contempt and conflict.

And trying to be a Christian all on your lonesome doesn't "fracture the body of Christ and breed elitism, contempt and conflict"?

 

[frater_domus]

And trying to be a Christian all on your lonesome doesn't "fracture the body of Christ and breed elitism, contempt and conflict"?

I do not crave isolation. I visit whatever church welcomes me. All I am trying to say is that denomination is not very high up on my list when it comes choosing a church.

 

[Radagast]

I do not crave isolation. I visit whatever church welcomes me. All I am trying to say is that denomination is not very high up on my list when it comes choosing a church.

Well, you say that, but when it comes to something specific, like being baptised, you seem to have a denominational mindset (a Baptist one, to be exact).

I'm struggling to understand your position here. If you like Baptist theology, join a Baptist church. If you like Lutheran/Reformed theology, join an EKD church. If you like Catholic theology, join a Catholic church. If you like SDA theology, join an SDA church. If you like Pentecostal theology, join a Pentecostal church. Those all seem to be feasible options in Germany. But don't join one and complain that you really wanted to be in another.

 

[frater_domus]

Well, you say that, but when it comes to something specific, like being baptised, you seem to have a denominational mindset (a Baptist one, to be exact).

I'm struggling to understand your position here. If you like Baptist theology, join a Baptist church. If you like Lutheran/Reformed theology, join an EKD church. If you like Catholic theology, join a Catholic church. If you like SDA theology, join an SDA church. If you like Pentecostal theology, join a Pentecostal church. Those all seem to be feasible options in Germany. But don't join one and complain that you really wanted to be in another.

Did you actually read the thread? The last thing I do is complaining about a church not having it my way. I am talking about certain thoughts I had and whether they have any significance in the matter. And for the last time, I am not joining any church. Where do you people get the idea? I am just getting baptised.
Besides, if you read the thread, you'd know that I am moving away from Germany very soon, so no local church will matter at that point.

 

[Radagast]

Did you actually read the thread? The last thing I do is complaining about a church not having it my way.

My mistake; that's what it sounded like.

And for the last time, I am not joining any church. Where do you people get the idea? I am just getting baptised.

Well, most denominations associate baptism with becoming a member of the church. Indeed, if you stated an unwillingness to join any church upfront, most pastors would either refuse to baptise you, or they would take the baptism as agreement to join anyway.

So there's a problem there.

Besides, if you read the thread, you'd know that I am moving away from Germany very soon, so no local church will matter at that point.

Missed that. It's a long thread.

 

[Radagast]

I would express my concerns with the leaders of the church. A healthy church welcomes the concerns of its congregation.

Well, you can't really rock up to a Catholic church and demand a Baptist-style baptism, just as you can't rock up to a Baptist church and demand the Latin mass.

 

[All4Christ]

I’m guilty of this as well, but the OP is right about the debate (in context of Christian Advice). This isn’t a forum to discuss theology with each other but it is a forum where we should address the OP’s concern directly to him. We shouldn’t be debating with each other or even having a theological discussion between ourselves in this forum.

 

[JIMINZ]

Indeed. To me, baptism is symbolic. I see it as the wedding ring when marrying. I was also baptized as an infant, though not because my parents were believers, but because that's what everyone did. It was russian orthodox. However, it means little to me. I want to get baptized in the name of Christ by my own choice and out of love for God and Christ.

Why would I want to do multiple baptisms though? One seems enough, though I wouldn't say no to a river baptism, just because its awesome

Well there you go, you have answered the question yourself.

If all you believe is that Baptism is a symbolic gesture, then it really doesn't matter if how it is performed, or by who.

Why heck, you could walk out in the rain and let God Baptize you Himself.

 

[Radagast]

I was also baptized as an infant, though not because my parents were believers, but because that's what everyone did. It was russian orthodox.

I missed that too. If you are already baptised, Lutheran/Reformed or Catholic churches will not baptise you again.

If you want to be baptised again, you will have to wait for some Baptists to do it.

 

[LoricaLady]

Short answer is that you should join a church, and be baptised the way that they baptise.

This is making a denomination to be "God." We are to follow the Word, not the ever varying and contradictory ways of men and their man made, too often confused and/or self serving, ways.

 

[LoricaLady]

Well, you can't really rock up to a Catholic church and demand a Baptist-style baptism, just as you can't rock up to a Baptist church and demand the Latin mass.

You have choices. You can not go to a Church that preaches and practices what is not in the Bible. Or, if you feel you just have to go to a certain Church, then you can find someone who is a sincere, Baptized by immersion, individual and let that person baptize you. The only qualificaitons, in the Bible, for a baptizer was that they be a sincere believer.

When we just do whatever a denomination says then we are doing what Messiah warned us not to do: "For you ignore YHWH's" aka God's "law and substitute your own tradition."

 

[Anhelyna]

To all posters in this thread

The SoP for this board isStatement of Purpose - Christian Advice Statement of Purpose

It would be most helpful if you would please read it.

This is a not an area where you can debate theology amongst yourselves. This is an area to help someone who is asking for "Christian Advice"

Thank you for your co-operation in this.

Anhelyna Senior Ambassador Member

With apologies for the late editing - too many windows open - and I hit the wrong article - sorry about that