baptism necessary to be saved???

[Florida College]

suzie,

You haven't responded for several days. Hopefully, you are still considering the ongoing discussions. Discussion is a two-way street. You have to be able to listen, as well as speak. If you need more time to develop the ability to listen, I will understand.

FC

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

florida college

The Father is my DADDY !!

Gal 4:6-7 And because you are sons God hath sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts crying "Abba! Father!" [daddy, daddy] 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son then an heir through God.

As for Israel the Father was King ...what the BIG deal

Ester 4:11 All the King's servants and the people of the king provinces know that for any man or women who comes to the king to the inner court who is not summoned, he has but one law, that he be put to death, unless the king holds out the golden scepter so that he may live. And .....

We[the church] have better promises than those in the dispensation of LAW thus I can go boldly into the throne room because We are the Bride/Son..

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

1 peter 3:18-21

vs 18 death in the flesh and alive in the spirit

this is talking about present tense salvation how we can be saved right now from are sinful flesh if we walk by the Spirit...thus like Noah by walking with God he too was saved his flesh from the flood
Gal 5:16-17 Just as the evil spirits had oppunity but decided to pervert the flesh Jude 6-7

Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify her having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word.

John 7:37 Now on the Last Day, the great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out , saying, "If any man is thirty, let him come to Me and drink. 38 He who believes in ME, as the scripture said, From his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water. 39 But this He spoke of the Spirit, whom those who believed in Him were to recieve; for the Spirit was not given, because Jesus was not glorified.

spirit baptizism with water in this verse

Matt 3:11 baptize you in water for repentance

other question

Acts will take some time

Been shown by my liitle brother BUT haven't mark it in my bible
basicly it is progression of steps that keep changing in Acts I don't know why it just does

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Just because I do not explain my self very well every time I try very much so to harmonize my scripture esspecially with the trinity, positional truth, different dispensations, mystery's, ages, ect..

 

[Florida College]

Brethren,

Is it appropriate the call the LORD Daddy?
Consider:
Ps. 111:9 "He has sent redemption to His people; He has commanded His coventant forever: Holy and awesome is His name."
"Jehovah - . . . represented in Hebrew by the four consonants YHWH. The personal name of God was so sacred to the Hebrews that it was not uttered. . . . It was not until the Middle Ages that the Jewish scribes, the Masoretes, began adding points, tiny notations above or below the consonants to to indicate the vowels. " - The Revell Bible Dictionary. YHWH is frequently translated LORD in translations such as the KJV and the NKJV. Considering also: "And whatever you do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him." - Col.3:17 God is the Father, not Jesus' daddy - a more casual and flippant use of the term. Think about it.

Now, let's go back to Acts 8:35-38. Philip preached Jesus. Agree? When the eunuch saw water, he asked if he could be baptized. Agree? The eunuch was baptized in water. Agree? The Spirit's involvement in the eunuch's conversion is given in vs. 29 & 39. Agree?

Concerning 1 Pet.3:18 - . . . "being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit" refers to Jesus, not to Jesus' followers. Note vs. 20 - "eight souls were saved by water." Agree? After all, that is what the scripture says. Continuing in vs.21, "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us" . . . (KJV). Agree? That is what the scripture says. The conclusion, just as the eight souls were saved on the ark, baptism saves us! All I ask is that you read the verses . . . not "read into" the verses.

Matt.3:11 was a baptism in water for repentance. The baptism of John (the baptist or baptizer) was a baptism of repentance because the kingdom was "at hand" (or close) - vs. 1-2. John's baptism is clearly not the same as the bapism that puts one into Christ - Acts 19:3-4. Notice the order of events in this verse: they were baptized into Jesus - vs.5. Following that, Paul laid his hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit - vs. 6. Carefully notice that these were totally separate actions.

Carefully consider Rev.3:20. Does the Lord really do it all as far as salvation is concerned? Who knocks on the door? Now, who hears the voice at the door and opens the door? It sure seems like somebody other than the Lord is doing some work (listening and opening - that does require some action). Kinda' makes you think a little bit doesn't it?

I know that you believe in John 3:16. Do you believe in Luke 13:3,5? Yes or No? If not, why not?

FC

 

[sbbqb7n16]

We're discussing this same thing over in Liberal Theology. I gave my answers over there/... it's long so I don't wanna type it over lol

But about the Daddy thing... yeah it is!!

Rom*8:15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"
9 Gal*4:6 Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

Abba is a very intimate term for Father, much like Daddy is in English.

 

[CrossMovement]

Baptism is necessarely for salvation , Who can you deny that ??

Give me your best example , your best one that a people have been saved without being baptize and I swear that I will have the answer for you.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

We do not disagree about baptism in neccessary for salvation

we disagree whether by WATER of man OR BY THE water of the SPIRIT..

 

[CrossMovement]

We do not disagree about baptism in neccessary for salvation

we disagree whether by WATER of man OR BY THE water of the SPIRIT..

ok sorry , I am in error , I though it was a different argument

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

We're discussing this same thing over in Liberal Theology. I gave my answers over there/... it's long so I don't wanna type it over lol

But about the Daddy thing... yeah it is!!

Rom*8:15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"
9 Gal*4:6 Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

Abba is a very intimate term for Father, much like Daddy is in English.

Nice to find a Like minded believer in the FORUM

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Yes I believe in luke but maybe not the same as you....

H.S. convince us of John 16:7-11 and we know we are worth nothing and deserve hell and God the trash collector saves us from it

 

[aggie03]

We do not disagree about baptism in neccessary for salvation

we disagree whether by WATER of man OR BY THE water of the SPIRIT..

Water of the Spirit? Water of man?

I think that if we read through the very beginning of the Bible, the Book of Genesis is sufficient to answer that there is no such thing as "water of man". God made the heavens, the earth and all that is contained on the earth. All of the water on the earth is the water of God because He made it!

Titus 3:5 ASV

not by works done in righteousness, which we did ourselves, but according to his mercy he saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,

I think that there is a very important word that you have been leaving out when you are trying to understand this passage, a brethren. The word "and" which I have highlighted in red. It serves as a conjuction, meaning that it combines to separate things together. The washing of regeneration is altogether different and set apart from renewing of the Holy Spirit. They are two separate things that are joined together in this sentence.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

i AM NOT WHITE TRASH CAN'T SPEAK ..CAN'T WRITE VERY WELL BUT GOOD ENOUGH

THERE ARE SEVEN WORKS OF THE SPIRIT

RESTRAINING 2 THES 2:1-12
REPROVING/CONVINCING JOHN 16:7-11
BAPTIZING ACTS 11:15-18
REGENERATING 1 COR 12:12-13
INDWELLING GAL 3:2-5,, 1 COR 12:13
SEALING EPH 1:13
FILLING EPH 5:18

 

[aggie03]

i AM NOT WHITE TRASH CAN'T SPEAK ..CAN'T WRITE VERY WELL BUT GOOD ENOUGH

I never called you white trash. To the best of my knowledge no one here has ever said anything even remotely close to that - ever.

How do these 7 works that you've listed affect whether or not baptism for the remission of sins is necessary for our salvation? If you could go through and explain each one, that would be very helpful.

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Water of the Spirit? Water of man?

The word "and" which I have highlighted in red. It serves as a conjuction, meaning that it combines to separate things together. The washing of regeneration is altogether different and set apart from renewing of the Holy Spirit. They are two separate things that are joined together in this sentence.

WHAT EVER

I GOT TWO PAGES
JUST FOR REPROVING

DO YOU WANT THEM sEND pm TO ME WITH YOUR WISHES SEND YOUR ADDRESS AND i WILL SEND THAT THROUGHT HE MAIL

 

[Florida College]

Brethren,

I'm confused. Aren't you the same person who has been saying all along that God does it all, and all we have to do is believe? Yea, I'm sure that was you. What gives? Why this complete about-face now? Are you ready to acknowledge that Jesus said, "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved - Mk.16:16?" And are you ready to accept that Peter said in Acts 2:38, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins? If so, we are progressing nicely.

In reviewing your conversation with aggie03, things took a turn for the worse when you used the expression "God the trash collector." Where in the world did you dig up that expression? Certainly not from the bible. Rather than speak the language of the "street," why not focus on the scripture and become a student of the word?

I still haven't heard your reply to Acts 8: 35-38. Focusing on those passages, I would like you to explain your belief that the eunuch was not baptized in water.

I see that you got somebody to agree with you about calling God "Daddy." Remember, just because someone agrees with you doesn't mean that you're right. All it means, is that both of you are disciples of the school of liberal theology. I realize that abba is an intimate term, and that when it is used when addressing the Father it is a term that suggests a deep, affectionate, and dependant relationship (much like an infant to its father). However, I know of no credible translation of the Bible that translates abba as "daddy," do you?

Bible study is not necessarily about how well you speak or write. Bible study is more about how you think. One of the more sobering passages to me in all of the bible is found in 2 Thess.2:10-12. This passage points out that those who do not have a love for truth will perish, and because they want to have it their way and not God's way, God will send "strong delusion." The result is that they believe that which is a lie. Scary isn't it? That is why several writers are encouraging you to focus on the scriptural teaching about baptism. Baptism is not about being dunked in water. Baptism is about . . . well, rather than tell you . . . I'll let you read it in Rom.6:3-11. Give a little thought to vs. 4 - "just as Christ was raised from the dead . . . even so we also should walk in newness of life." Consider this also: Jesus said, " Unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" - Jn.3:3. He further explained being born again as being "born of water and the Spirit" - Jn.3:5. Water is involved - - in baptism - Acts 8:35-39. The Spirit was involved also in Acts 8 - note vs. 29. What did the Spirit direct Philip to teach - - Jesus - vs. 35. Where, and how, was the eunuch baptized after the Spirit through Philip preached to him the message of salvation through Jesus? The text clearly points out that the eunuch was baptized in water. Who can deny it? Do you deny it?

Brethren, please note Jesus' words in Jn.14:15 - "If you love Me, keep My commandments." This is all that I desire for you - - nothing more!

FC

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

Brethren,

I'm confused. Aren't you the same person who has been saying all along that God does it all, and all we have to do is believe? Yea, I'm sure that was you. What gives? Why this complete about-face now? Are you ready to acknowledge that Jesus said, "He who believes and is baptized shall be saved - Mk.16:16?" And are you ready to accept that Peter said in Acts 2:38, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins? If so, we are progressing nicely.

I have said again and again

I BELIEVE IN BAPTISM BY THE SPIRIT NOT OF MAN

In reviewing your conversation with aggie03, things took a turn for the worse when you used the expression "God the trash collector." Where in the world did you dig up that expression? Certainly not from the bible. Rather than speak the language of the "street," why not focus on the scripture and become a student of the word?

ISA 64:6 ARE WORKS ARE CALLED FILTHY RAGS[TAMPONS]

1 COR 1:26 fOR YE SEE YOUR CALLING, BRETHREN, HOW THAT NOT MANY WISE MEN AFTER THE FLESH, NOT MANY MIGHTY, NOT MANY NOBLE ARE CALLED 27 BUT GOD HATH CHOSEN THE FOOLISH THINGS OF THE WORLD TO CONFOUND THE WISE; AND GOD HATH CHOSEN THE WEAK THINGS OF THE WORLD TO CONFOUND THE MIGHTY; 28 AND BASE THINGS OF THE WORLD, AND GOD CHOSEN, YEA AND THINGS WHICH ARE NOT, TO BRING TO ENOUGH THINGS THAT ARE:

GOD IS A TRASH COLLECTOR


[/QUOTE]I still haven't heard your reply to Acts 8: 35-38. Focusing on those passages, I would like you to explain your belief that the eunuch was not baptized in water.

I see that you got somebody to agree with you about calling God "Daddy." Remember, just because someone agrees with you doesn't mean that you're right. All it means, is that both of you are disciples of the school of liberal theology. I realize that abba is an intimate term, and that when it is used when addressing the Father it is a term that suggests a deep, affectionate, and dependant relationship (much like an infant to its father). However, I know of no credible translation of the Bible that translates abba as "daddy," do you? [/QUOTE]

EXACTLY IT IS A PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP AND SINCE WE ARE ABLE TO JUMP ON HIS LAP SINCE WE ARE SONS IN CHRIST WE GET TO GO BOLDLY IN TO THE THRONE ROOM

Bible study is not necessarily about how well you speak or write. Bible study is more about how you think. One of the more sobering passages to me in all of the bible is found in 2 Thess.2:10-12. This passage points out that those who do not have a love for truth will perish, and because they want to have it their way and not God's way, God will send "strong delusion." The result is that they believe that which is a lie. Scary isn't it? That is why several writers are encouraging you to focus on the scriptural teaching about baptism. Baptism is not about being dunked in water. Baptism is about . . . well, rather than tell you . . . I'll let you read it in Rom.6:3-11. Give a little thought to vs. 4 - "just as Christ was raised from the dead . . . even so we also should walk in newness of life." Consider this also: Jesus said, " Unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God" - Jn.3:3. He further explained being born again as being "born of water and the Spirit" - Jn.3:5. Water is involved - - in baptism - Acts 8:35-39. The Spirit was involved also in Acts 8 - note vs. 29. What did the Spirit direct Philip to teach - - Jesus - vs. 35. Where, and how, was the eunuch baptized after the Spirit through Philip preached to him the message of salvation through Jesus? The text clearly points out that the eunuch was baptized in water. Who can deny it? Do you deny it?

Brethren, please note Jesus' words in Jn.14:15 - "If you love Me, keep My commandments." This is all that I desire for you - - nothing more!

FC

WHAT COMMANDMENTS ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT i ONLY KNOW OF ONE COMMANDMENT FOR THE CHURCH

JOHN 13:34 a NEW COMMANDMENT I GIVE UNTO YOU, THAT YE LOVE ONE ANOTHER; AS I HAVE LOVED YOU[ROMANS 5:8] THAT YE ALSO LOVE ONE ANOTHER.[AS CHRIST LOVES ME]

GAL 5:18 bUT IF WE ARE LED OF THE SPIRIT, YE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW.

 

[aggie03]

Because your reply is to Florida College, and I have no doubt that he will return to reply in a much better fashion than I am able , I will only address the point in this post that I could not pass over without responding to.

I have said again and again I BELIEVE IN BAPTISM BY THE SPIRIT NOT OF MAN

I don't believe in a baptism of man either, but I believe in baptism in the name of Christ for the remission of our sins. Perhaps the problem is just that I don't understand what you mean by baptism of man, for this term is never mentioned in the Scriptures.

ISA 64:6 ARE WORKS ARE CALLED FILTHY RAGS[TAMPONS]

I have several different translations of the Bible, and not one them uses the word that you have posted in place of "filthy rags" or "garments passing away" or something of the like. While I am not versed in ancient Hebrew, both of the literal translation that I have did not translate this passage as you have it quoted. Perhaps some of the root for our not seeing eye to eye is a problem with translation you are using. If those who have translated the version you are using have taken liberty in changing words, this could lead to trouble.

...TRASH COLLECTOR

I think that you should go back and edit this out of your post. I believe that you've missed the point of the passage that you've quoted, and are in serious danger of profaning the character of God. God is righteous, Holy, Just, Pure. He is not as you have stated. I really wish you would edit this out of your post.

GAL 5:18 bUT IF WE ARE LED OF THE SPIRIT, YE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW.

We are not under the Law of Moses. We are however under the Law of Christ.

Galatians 6:2 ASV

Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

How can we fulfil the Law of Christ if we are not under the Law of Christ???

 

[A Brethren IN CHRIST]

READ ALL THE VERSE ABOUT MAN ......and God called out some [ romans 3:10-11]according to 1 cor 9:22and without christ we are trash ...He makes us holy[set apart] not us.

Baptism I believe in 1 cor 12:13 were the H.S. put us into Christ no one can see it 2 cor 5:7 and no man can put you in or keep you out.

I think I know were you are going with the Law of Christ give me some verses???

 

[Florida College]

Brethren,

What is this baptism of man that you do not believe in?

We have previously discussed calling God "daddy" and the "trash collector." Now, you refer to the "filthy rags" of Isa. 64:6 as "tampons." I am going to comment on this from several different angles:

1.) The Hebrew word for filthy in Isa. 64:6 is iddim - with a meaning of things passing away. Isa. 64:6 is the only time this Hebrew word is used in the Old Testament. The Hebrew word for rags in Isa. 64:6 is beged - with a meaning of rotten cloak, garment, or covering. This word appears several other times in the Old Testament: 4 times it is translated as apparel, 13 times as cloth, 69 times as clothes, 1 time as clothing, 107 times as garment, 1 time as lap, 1 time as rag, 12 times as raiment, 4 times as robe, 1 time as vesture, & 2 times as wardrobe. (Hebrew references taken from Young's Analytical Concordance) Therefore, there is nothing in the Hebrew words to suggest that the prophet was referring to "tampons" in Isa.64:6.

2.) I am aware of no credible translation that reads "tampons" in Isa.64:6. Are you?

3.) Who told you that "filty rags" meant "tampons?"
Let me guess? You thought of it all by yourself.
(Other readers, bear with me for just a moment of folly.) Perhaps, you envision a tampon falling from the back of God's trash truck.

4.) How well are you familiar with the Old Testament history? Specifically, how familiar are you with feminine hygiene products among Israelite women about 700 B.C.? Were tampons even around back then? Site your reference source with your answer.

Recommendation:
Brethren, you entered a discussion of whether or not baptism is necessary for salvation. You write to discourage or draw attention away from the baptism that is necessary - - a baptism in water for the remission of sins. You have yet to comment on any of the points made from Philip's teaching and the eunuch's conversion in Acts 8:35-39. Instead, you throw in rambling points that never seem to connect to anything and never make any real sense. If you are a student of the scriptures, you need to be focusing on the scriptures - - not on the crude terminology that comes from a liberal and carnal mindset.

I'll repeat the same verse that I did in the last response: Jn.14:15 - "If you love Me, keep My commandments." Your response was: WHAT COMMANDMENTS ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT. i ONLY KNOW OF ONE COMMANDMENT FOR THE CHURCH.
JOHN 13:34 a NEW COMMANDMENT I GIVE UNTO YOU, THAT YE LOVE ONE ANOTHER; AS I HAVE LOVED YOU[ROMANS 5:8] THAT YE ALSO LOVE ONE ANOTHER.[AS CHRIST LOVES ME] Here is what you have done. Jesus plainly said that we must keep his commandments (as in the plural, or more than one). You respond that you only know of one. Someone is wrong here. Either you are right in that there is only one commandment, or the Lord is right - - there are commandments. If you are right, the Lord is wrong. If the Lord is right, you are wrong. Which is it? I put my faith in what the Lord says! You attempt to come across as a student of the word, so why not spend some time and study it?

And while you prepare to study the word, review the memos that aggie03 has sent you. These scriptures are frequently listed in those memos: Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned.
Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, wherein ye were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Rom 10:9 because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved
Rom 10:17 So belief cometh of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
You have not addressed these scriptures, nor have you addressed Acts 8:35-39 or Acts 2:38. Why not?
Could it be because you have no answer?

FC