Baptism by immersion in my pool!

[DaRev]

i have a quick question, not wanting to ruffle feathers, etc -- where is it stated (in the BIBLE) that baptism has to be by sprinkling in a church? when Jesus said "go into the world, baptizing..." He did not say to build a church first...isn't baptism in a church by sprinkling our tradition? it is not mandated in the Bible to be done that way...

It has been stated earlier in this thread that the method is not as important as the meaning. The Scriptures do tell us that worship should be orderly. The Lutheran Confessions do outline certain things so that they are in good order. Baptism needs to be done in a way that reflects the work of God being done and the reverence of the event. Doing so in a way that could be irreverent or could cause confusion among people as to the importance of the sacrament or the significance of what is truly happening there is not demonstrating the Biblical or Confessional importance of good and proper order of all things.

 

[dinkime]

but i think, also, the way she has stated it -- her church family, the pastor, etc will be the ones there -- it is not a free for all with a quick little prayer over someone while they are swimming...people are looking at the statement about using the pool and only seeing a pool party, they seem to have missed the part about the Pastor doing it, her CHURCH family being present, having it be what it should be, just a little different than what we are used to...

 

[DaRev]

But one thing to keep in mind is that are these people all coming to witness a baptism or are they coming to swim in the pool afterwards? What is it that is attracting the "church family" to come to this?

This is the problem I have with it and why I would not do something like this. I would more likely have done it in a river if only just to seperate it from the frivolity of the swimming pool.

 

[dinkime]

But one thing to keep in mind is that are these people all coming to witness a baptism or are they coming to swim in the pool afterwards? What is it that is attracting the "church family" to come to this?

This is the problem I have with it and why I would not do something like this. I would more likely have done it in a river if only just to seperate it from the frivolity of the swimming pool.

I think the Pastor of this church knows his members best and if he believes they can handle the baptism taking place at a pool, that is his call as he knows the people best who will be involved. and by putting "church family" in quotes like that, it makes me think you are judging them somehow as to not being a church family at all (why the quotes otherwise?), it is not for us to judge -- Jesus knows their hearts, their home Pastor knows them as humans and can accurately judge whether they will take away the truth of a baptism at a pool or just the fun, i am sure if he felt they were going just to swim/party/whatever he would not do the baptism at a pool

 

[TCat]

Maybe it would help to realise that where I live nearly EVERYONE has a pool in their backyard. Having a pool is like having a garage, no big deal, there is nothing special about having a pool to swim in. In fact it's hard to buy a house here without a pool.

It had not occured to me that the pool was a problem, it just seems like a good immersion pool. Most of the times we have celebrations of any kind in our backyard the pool is only used by the kids. It has little appeal to most of the adults because it is so common place here.

The fact is that my girlfriends father was a Bible study this morning and our choir director brought up the baptism during the lesson. All of the men voiced their approval and several are planning to attend the service.

It sounds like it will be a terrific time of worship and praise. I am excited and so glad that she is being baptised. We spoke again after work about baptism and the work and promises of God in accordance with it.

I want to thank you guys here for making me stretch and study and think about what baptism means. This thread has been very helpful even if we don't all agree.

I'll let you know how it goes, she hasn't set a date yet, she and our pastor have to do some more talking and checking their calenders.

Being good Lutherans everyone has volunteered to bring food and provide whatever help we might need. I hope I can find enough chairs!

 

[rockytrails]

why immersion ?
Lutherans mostly perfer pouring or sprinkling since it sends a very clear message that all modes of baptism are scriptual and Gods word in baptism
is what saves and makes it legitament not the mode!

also why would you want a place out of the ordinary ?worship service in church . what is the reason behind that
perhaps they better talk this over with their pastor first

 

[TheCosmicGospel]

Poor Grandma Schmidt, she doesn't understand what is going on in her church with the young people these days. No wonder homose*uals have parades, mothers now abort, list goes on and on. It all starts with the church in her mind. When it goes to pot, everything else follows. Well, she does have history on her side. She is that kindly smiling lady at church who will never say a word. But she wonders what in heck is going on when we have to have baptism in pools just to make some people happy.

Grandma Schmidt won't be coming to the pool party. You just left out an important part of the church. You have raised a whole bunch of questions in the minds of the older people who have had to endure countless changes and your pastor will be in the center of those questions for allowing this kind of nonsense. So much for "me and my God approach" and the 30 friends. What about the rest of the church she is joining whom this shepherd is also to be leading? And yet somehow this registers to many here as a legitimate service to this congregation.

Peace,
Cos

 

[TCat]

why immersion ?
Lutherans mostly perfer pouring or sprinkling since it sends a very clear message that all modes of baptism are scriptual and Gods word in baptism
is what saves and makes it legitament not the mode!

I think my friend simply prefers immersion, she understands that it is not the amount of water involved. My understanding is that Luther also preferred immersion, perhaps for the symbolism of being buried with Christ and washed free from sin. Since it's not the mode that matters why should she not be immersed if she chooses?

As for Grandma Schmidt, poor dear, perhaps she views Baptsim into Christianity and baptism into the Lutheran Church as one in the same and this is why is it hard for her to grasp that there is only one Baptism, one Spirit and one Church.
My girlfriend is being Baptised into the Christian faith and seal with God's grace, she is already a member of our local Lutheran church, through Baptism she is joining the Christian Church.

 

[synger]

I'm seeing two ways of looking at this event:

One is as a worship service, centered around Word and Sacrament, that just happens to be done at someone's house so that the Sacrament can be more wet than usual.

The other is as a party, with some prayer first and a smattering of "religious speeches" to justify it.

I fully understand why the second option would not be appropriate.
It is my hope that the pastor will structure the service like the first instance.

This reminds me of all the times I've had Communion or seen Baptisms outside a church building. Retreats and conferences, especially, often have Communion. But it is part of, and cannot be separated from, the worship service that brings us into God's presence and prepares us to hear and receive His Word.

It will be interesting to hear more about this worship service.

 

[TheCosmicGospel]

Next week, there could be a a BBQ for Jesus event in the park. Wouldn't that be neat? Keep the Spirit flowing. There are some tired of church and liturgy...why not feed the flow of the spirit...let's keep up the pool parites..bbq's..it's a whole new way of reaching others. Isn't that what we are supposed to do? I am sure the pastor would go along and even participate.

30 friends make a church. Why not see it through all the way?

Peace,
Cos

 

[dinkime]

as Jesus said (Matthew 18: 20) "For where two or three come together in my name, there am I with them." so the church of 30 is really not a reason, there are churches all over the world who have less members than that and many churches larger than that who see less members than that at a regular church service...

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I don't think anyone is saying that a baptism done outside the church isn't true baptism. If they are, they need to speak to my husband, who has been a pastor in the WELS for almost ten years. He insists on baptizing our babies almost before they're even out of the womb. The baptism is no less just because it's not done in church.

My only fear is wondering whether this lady thinks that her baptism is BETTER because it will be a full immersion. Or that she will somehow feel CLOSER to God. If this is how she is feeling, then she definitely needs to reexamine why she is getting baptized in the first place.

Quick question: a few of you talked about this lady being cathechized (I think that's the right word) before her baptism. I understand taking a class before one is confirmed as an adult into the Lutheran church...is this the same class you are speaking of? Or are you just meaning that the pastor has asked the woman what her beliefs are?

Thanks for your answers ahead of time!

 

[DaSeminarian]

I don't think anyone is saying that a baptism done outside the church isn't true baptism. If they are, they need to speak to my husband, who has been a pastor in the WELS for almost ten years. He insists on baptizing our babies almost before they're even out of the womb. The baptism is no less just because it's not done in church.

My only fear is wondering whether this lady thinks that her baptism is BETTER because it will be a full immersion. Or that she will somehow feel CLOSER to God. If this is how she is feeling, then she definitely needs to reexamine why she is getting baptized in the first place.

Quick question: a few of you talked about this lady being cathechized (I think that's the right word) before her baptism. I understand taking a class before one is confirmed as an adult into the Lutheran church...is this the same class you are speaking of? Or are you just meaning that the pastor has asked the woman what her beliefs are?

Thanks for your answers ahead of time!

GOod questions. Yes. Because she is an adult as she is being baptized, most Pastors in the LCMS would require some kind of catechism class prior to baptism as she will also be taking Holy Communion after she is baptized.

 

[TCat]

This young women has been meeting with our pastor, I am guessing that he is satisfied with her answers since he is going to do the baptism. I do know that she has attended our new member classes in the past.

She and I have talked about baptism before. I do not think she believes her baptism will be "better" because it is a full immersion, nor as others have tried to suggest in other posts will it be "lesser" than if it were done in the church from the fount. How could it be, one Baptsim, one Faith, one Holy Spirit, there is no other. She simply feels that this is a good choice for her, maybe she is being led this way by the Holy Spirit, I don't know but I think it will be a powerful witness to others.

She and our pastor are finalizing the dates right now, and should be able to get it done in late July or early August. I'll let you know how it goes.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

GOod questions. Yes. Because she is an adult as she is being baptized, most Pastors in the LCMS would require some kind of catechism class prior to baptism as she will also be taking Holy Communion after she is baptized.

I think we might do it a little differently.

Last month my husband baptized a father and his son. The following week the son was confirmed but not the dad. The dad and mom are currently going through the membership classes.

So the father and mother do not take communion yet but the son does, even though the mom and dad are both baptized.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

This young women has been meeting with our pastor, I am guessing that he is satisfied with her answers since he is going to do the baptism. I do know that she has attended our new member classes in the past.

Well, one can hope that the pastor is coming at it from the right direction . Pastors do many things they don't believe are right simply to please the masses.

She and I have talked about baptism before. I do not think she believes her baptism will be "better" because it is a full immersion, nor as others have tried to suggest in other posts will it be "lesser" than if it were done in the church from the fount. How could it be, one Baptsim, one Faith, one Holy Spirit, there is no other. She simply feels that this is a good choice for her, maybe she is being led this way by the Holy Spirit, I don't know but I think it will be a powerful witness to others.

People believe strange things about the sacraments. I honestly can't see why a person would be so adamant on an immersion baptism if there wasn't some feeling that it would be a better baptism. As for being led by the Spirit, well, I can't see the Spirit leading us to do anything that could cause another to stumble or question the word, so I doubt she is being led by the Spirit to seek out an immersion baptism.

I think it's situations like this that also led the Lutheran church to forgo the immersion baptisms.

She and our pastor are finalizing the dates right now, and should be able to get it done in late July or early August. I'll let you know how it goes.

Why wait if you're going to be baptized? As I mentioned, all my children have been baptized in the hospital. A week or two later we do a ratification in the church, in front of the congregation.

People in the bible didn't check their palm pilots before the got baptized, they didn't check to see who could come to the party...

I just think she's going about this whole thing the wrong way. It's too bad the pastor seems to be encouraging this, too.

 

[LilLamb219]

As for being led by the Spirit, well, I can't see the Spirit leading us to do anything that could cause another to stumble or question the word, so I doubt she is being led by the Spirit to seek out an immersion baptism.

I love the way you worded this!! I've been pondering for a few days now on how to say something just like this, but couldn't make it sound as if it weren't a slap in the face somehow. You did a good job of avoiding what I would have done!

 

[LilLamb219]

Why wait if you're going to be baptized? As I mentioned, all my children have been baptized in the hospital. A week or two later we do a ratification in the church, in front of the congregation.

A lot of pastors prefer for adults to wait until they're properly taught before being baptized since there is evidence of faith from hearing the word. Baptizing and teaching go hand in hand

 

[Aibrean]

i have a quick question, not wanting to ruffle feathers, etc -- where is it stated (in the BIBLE) that baptism has to be by sprinkling in a church? when Jesus said "go into the world, baptizing..." He did not say to build a church first...isn't baptism in a church by sprinkling our tradition? it is not mandated in the Bible to be done that way...

Baptize comes from the greek word "baptizo" (baptismos) which means [FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Arial, Geneva] "a washing, purification effected by means of water[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]."

The amount of water isn't important.


-------as for the Jesus having original sin...well that would make him imperfect and his death for us pointless. Also, what does that say about God...God above all would have no problem making perfection!

 

[PreachersWife2004]

A lot of pastors prefer for adults to wait until they're properly taught before being baptized since there is evidence of faith from hearing the word. Baptizing and teaching go hand in hand

I do understand that, but it sounds as though this is more of a case of someone waiting simply for the right date. It's my understanding she's had the membership classes.

I'd have to ask my husband what he would do if someone came to the church and asked to be baptized, right then and there. Interesting concept.