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Baptism by immersion in my pool!

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KEPLER

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I wondered if sprinkling became the norm because of the initial tendancy of the church to do infant baptism. Obvioiusly immersion is not appropriate in that case. Just wondering. gg
The Eastern Orthodox churches immerse their infants -- three times!
 
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LutheranChick

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I have read through this thread a few times and wanted to put in my '2 cents worth' and trying to come up with the right wording. I found an answer to a question regarding baptism by immersion on the WELS.net website, I will summarize what was said there, because it is exactly what I wanted to say, in regards to the baptism by immerson portion of this thread:

The Bible neither commands nor forbids any specific method of baptism. That is called "adiaphora", a matter of Christian freedom. However, we also need to be careful to not cause confusion or offense by what we do. I think the Baptists - and correct me if I'm wrong here - demand immersion as a valid baptism. So, therefore, the loving and confessional thing to do is act in a way that demonstrates the truth in Scripture and freedom in Christ. The reason why we normally avoid immerson is for the same reason Paul refused to circumsize Titus (Galatians 2:1-5)- as a testimony against the Judaizers.

Another example is Pauls answer to the Corinthians in the eating of food offered to idols, in 1 Corinthians 8:8-9: "Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. 9 But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak."

We should always remember to search the Scriptures for answers to our questions.
 
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TCat

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The Bible neither commands nor forbids any specific method of baptism. That is called "adiaphora", a matter of Christian freedom. However, we also need to be careful to not cause confusion or offense by what we do. I think the Baptists - and correct me if I'm wrong here - demand immersion as a valid baptism. So, therefore, the loving and confessional thing to do is act in a way that demonstrates the truth in Scripture and freedom in Christ. The reason why we normally avoid immerson is for the same reason Paul refused to circumsize Titus (Galatians 2:1-5)- as a testimony against the Judaizers.

Please correct me if I am making a wrong assumption here but are you, and others in past threads, suggesting that Lutherans NOT immerse because Baptist's do it?

Preacher'sWife, I am sorry you are suspicious about this baptism. I cannot for the life of me think why. As for the reason she has waited til this weekend, she does want her parents to be there, and our pastor, the one who has counseled her has been gone a lot this summer. This is the first weekend they have all been able to get together. Personally I wish she were willing to wait til later in the year, September would be cooler but she doesn't want to put it off so...
 
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KEPLER

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Please correct me if I am making a wrong assumption here but are you, and others in past threads, suggesting that Lutherans NOT immerse because Baptist's do it?

Actually, TCat, Franz Pieper, the LCMS's most famous dogmatician, outright states in his Christian Dogmatics, that we (Lutherans) maintain immersion as testimony against the Baptists. And that is a stance in line with the Confessions, which state that when the Church is being persecuted over something which is rightly considered adiaphora, we have an obligation to take the opposite stance. Here is the relevant portion of the Solid Declaration of the Formula of Concord:
26] 1. Therefore we reject and condemn as wrong when the ordinances of men in themselves are regarded as a service or part of the service of God.

27] 2. We reject and condemn also as wrong when these ordinances are by coercion forced upon the congregation of God as necessary.

28] 3. We reject and condemn also as wrong the opinion of those who hold (what tends to the detriment of the truth) that at a time of persecution we may comply with the enemies of the holy Gospel in [restoring] such adiaphora, or come to an agreement with them.

29] 4. We likewise regard it as a sin that deserves to be rebuked when in time of persecution anything is done either in indifferent matters or in doctrine, and in what otherwise pertains to religion, for the sake of the enemies of the Gospel, in word and act, contrary and opposed to the Christian confession.

Paragraphs 26 & 27 are obvious. Unfortunately, some have interpreted paragraph 28 to mean (for example, in our present case) that as long as Baptists insist in immersion only, that we Lutherans can never immerse. That is simply not true.

What P28 says is that as long as Baptists hold their stance, we can come to no agreements with them on this matter. Which is to say, "We're right. They're wrong. They have to back down. Period." Which is most certainly true.
 
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PreachersWife2004

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When one comes to my husband and wants baptism, he asks them key questions, has a little sort of cathechism class with them, and then baptizes them when they are ready. That could mean he does it right then and there, which is actually what he suggests, or he suggests that they do it that following Sunday in front of the congregation.

I just don't understand wanting to wait. Do it now, have the party later if people can't all attend.
 
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TCat

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PW,

The young women being baptised wanted the pastor and her parents to be there. I am sure you can agree that you wouldn't have wanted your children baptised without you and your husband/pastor present. That was the sole reason for waiting. Parents and pastor were all gone at different times for a large part of the summer.
And since she is already a Christian waiting until her parents and pastor were available did not place her salvation in jepordy.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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just passing saw this:
Originally Posted by gratefulgrace
I wondered if sprinkling became the norm because of the initial tendancy of the church to do infant baptism. Obvioiusly immersion is not appropriate in that case. Just wondering. gg



the initial tendancy ? not according to the Jewish believers ad 30 to today.

and:
So, therefore, the loving and confessional thing to do is act in a way that demonstrates the truth in Scripture and freedom in Christ. The reason why we normally avoid immerson is for the same reason Paul refused to circumsize Titus (Galatians 2:1-5)- as a testimony against the Judaizers.

? "normally" avoid immersion ?
the word sprinkle was never used in Scripture for immersion in Jesus Name. the "office of the pope" (i think is what politically correct lutherans call it) added the meaning 'sprinkle' several hundred years after the New Testament was written....


and, btw, the "office of the pope" claims/brags/boasts that all the protestant churches are actually admitting the popes authority as head of the church on earth by following [some of the] changes made by the "office of the pope" , which changes were always made without the authority of God's Word(sola Scriptura ?} and without authority from God except what the "office of the pope" claimed.

wondering if anyone's aware of this.
 
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gratefulgrace

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Sorry but it seems silly to wrangle over a person's personal conviction about the method of Baptism when scripture does not get so specific and it seems even the Lutheran church makes room for individual convicitons. (stated in previous post) As a person who favours adult over infant baptism I believe the act itself does not save a person but faith alone in the finished work of Christ. (His death and resurrection) We follow the Lord in the waters of Baptism in obedience to his example and as an outward expression to the world and the body of Christ that this inner work has taken place in our hearts. I do think a baptism "in secret" with you and the appropriate qualitfied clergyman honours God but it is more of a testimony when it takes place in front of the body of believers.
Don't you get blessed at Baptisms? Doesn't it cause rejoicing in YOUR heart (not just the angels) to see hear a person profess faith in God publicly often for the first time. (believe in your heart and confess with your mouth that JESUS IS LORD). Can it act as a conviction and a witness to any in the crowd not walking fully with God. Yes I believe it does all those things. I pray that this pool Baptism will do all that. gg
 
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KEPLER

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A word of caution to gratefulgrace and yeshuaslavejeff:

Neither of you are on the Master List of TCL members. You may fellowship in our boards, but you may not (to quote the rules) "come to TCL to try to "teach" the Lutherans because you feel they are wrong."

Cheers,

--Kepler
 
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PreachersWife2004

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Thanks for posting that Kepler.

TCat, I am thankful that this woman is getting baptized. Please understand this is more to do with the whole "fiesta" atmosphere about it. I don't think I'll ever be able to convey what I mean without sounding as though I'm thinking ill of this woman, which I'm not.

I just have personal convictions that I have to realize not everyone else has.

Again, I'm happy and joyful that she is getting baptized.
 
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LutherNut

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A word of caution to gratefulgrace and yeshuaslavejeff:

Neither of you are on the Master List of TCL members. You may fellowship in our boards, but you may not (to quote the rules) "come to TCL to try to "teach" the Lutherans because you feel they are wrong."

Cheers,

--Kepler

Oops! I'm not on that list. Am I allowed to post here? :scratch:

This place sure has gone to the dogs lately.
 
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gratefulgrace

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A word of caution to gratefulgrace and yeshuaslavejeff:

Neither of you are on the Master List of TCL members. You may fellowship in our boards, but you may not (to quote the rules) "come to TCL to try to "teach" the Lutherans because you feel they are wrong."

Cheers,

--Kepler
I do not feel anyone is wrong and in fact I think there are others who have posted similarly to me but maybe they aren't on the list either. Sorry I mean no offense. gg
 
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PreachersWife2004

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What is the Master List of TCL members ? I have never heard of any lists here on CF in other threads. gg

It's stickied.

When Erwin came through like a hurricane, the list was drafted. I believe it is those who were posting in here on a very regular basis, but someone correct me if I'm wrong.
 
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KEPLER

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I do not feel anyone is wrong and in fact I think there are others who have posted similarly to me but maybe they aren't on the list either. Sorry I mean no offense. gg
GG,

That's why I labelled it as a word of "caution"...just wanted you to be aware. When you said:
As a person who favours adult over infant baptism I believe the act itself does not save a person but faith alone in the finished work of Christ. (His death and resurrection) We follow the Lord in the waters of Baptism in obedience to his example and as an outward expression to the world and the body of Christ that this inner work has taken place in our hearts.
you were expressing an opinion which Lutherans find to be in opposition to what Scripture states.

We believe that the Scriptures are QUITE CLEAR that Baptism is not merely and "outward expression." Baptism is the work of the Holy Spirit. Scripture plainly states that when we are baptised, we are washed, cleansed, forgiven, buried with Christ and raised with Him again; clothed with Christ; given a clean conscience and new hearts; indeed, saved (cf. Eph 5:25-6; Titus 3:5, Acts 2:38; Romans 6:3-4; Col 2:12; Gal 3:26-7; Heb 10:22; 1 Pet 3:21).

Baptism is one of the means that God uses to effect (i.e., create) faith and thus salvation; the other of course is the preaching of the Gospel.
 
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