Baptism by immersion in my pool!

[DaRev]

Just how many Christian churches do you think existed in John's time?

Baptized AGAIN?

We also need to keep in mind that the baptism of John the Baptist was not the Christian baptism instituted by Christ.

 

[Flipper]

Just how many Christian churches do you think existed in John's time?

Baptized AGAIN?

Exactly, but he was genuinely baptized without a pulpit right there. Same with Jesus.

Yes, I have thought it would be very nice to get baptized again where I can actually hear and understand the words, and remember the feel of the water cleansing my sins. Also to be done in a river with other believers like it was done back in John's time would add to the neatness of it.

I don't have in mind the Currant River during a float trip with a cooler in the canoe.

I know it doesn't count because I've already been baptized. It's just something I've thought about.

 

[Flipper]

We also need to keep in mind that the baptism of John the Baptist was not the Christian baptism instituted by Christ.

What was it then?

What about Jesus' baptism by John the Baptist?

 

[Confess]

What was it then?

What about Jesus' baptism by John the Baptist?

Neither Jesus nor John was baptized in the name of the Triune God.

Their baptism was not any less relavant, it was just under a different time.

Jesus' baptism was a fulfillment of prophecy.

John's was a baptism of repentance.

Note that they both were circumcised.

All those who baptized in the command of Jesus and under the Triune God are the ones which cleanse us of our sins and join us with God, this baptism nullifies circumcision.

 

[porterross]

I don't have in mind the Currant River during a float trip with a cooler in the canoe.

Now that idea has some merit. We could combine it with a Lutheran reunion and go tubing.

 

[Confess]

I just want to be clear and state that no one is upset that this person is coming to Christ. It is just to bad that no one is teaching this person what Lutherans believe before they are baptized.

You see, the focus on making something "special" has been an issue in the church for sometime now.

Many do not want the Lord's Supper every Lord's day because they like for it to be "special".

Same with Baptism. Many want to make baptism "special" and try to think of whatever they can that will make an indullable mark on their lives for us to remember for the rest of our days.

This motivation is wrong.

I think it would be best to ask your friend why they want to be baptized and why is it important to be immersed.

When those two questions are asked, we may find that those horrible posters on CF were wrong or ... maybe they were on to something.

 

[Flipper]

Now that idea has some merit. We could combine it with a Lutheran reunion and go tubing.

You either misread what I said, or you are mocking my little dream. This is something I've seriously thought about.

 

[DaRev]

What was it then?

What about Jesus' baptism by John the Baptist?

According to Scripture, baptism unites us with Christ's death and resurrection. When Jesus was baptized by John, He obviously hadn't been crucified or resurrected yet.
Also, what original sin did Jesus have to be washed clean of?

John's baptism was not Christian baptism.

 

[Flipper]

According to Scripture, baptism unites us with Christ's death and resurrection. When Jesus was baptized by John, He obviously hadn't been crucified or resurrected yet.
Also, what original sin did Jesus have to be washed clean of?

John's baptism was not Christian baptism.

Jesus was mortal enough to die for us, I thought that being human meant he had original sin.

 

[DaRev]

Jesus was mortal enough to die for us, I thought that being human meant he had original sin.

No no no no no!!!!! Who taught you that?!!??!?

That's why He was born of a virgin, so as to be conceived free of original sin. Jesus was born a human in the same state that Adam was created, free of sin.

Jesus had no sin. 2 Corinthians 5:21, "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."

 

[Flipper]

No no no no no!!!!! Who taught you that?!!??!?

That's why He was born of a virgin, so as to be conceived free of original sin. Jesus was born a human in the same state that Adam was created, free of sin.

Jesus had no sin. 2 Corinthians 5:21, "He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."

Why did Satan bother trying to tempt Him then?

 

[DaRev]

Why did Satan bother trying to tempt Him then?

That was for our benefit. It shows that Christ could and did resist the temptations of Satan, temptations that we cannot resist. It was to show us that Christ is indeed truly human, having to endure temptations, and yet it also showed us that He is the perfect "Adam". He, as the "new Adam" (1 Corinthians 15:45-49) was completely without sin.

 

[TCat]

Spoke to our Pastor this morning and after doing some research I find that Luther prefered baptism by full immersion too.

So, my friend can either be baptised in a church before the altar of God in the borrowed baptisty in the Baptist church down the street or in my pool. Here she will be surrounded by 30 or more Christian friends celebrating the means of Grace by which the Holy Spirit is sealing her with God's promise and giving her new life in Him.

We talked about making this an "event" which someone mentioned was inappropiate. I disagree, it is an event!
More important than a wedding or graduation this is a major event in her spiritual life and should be celebrated.

 

[Jim47]

Which is more important:

To have our own way and have this baptism done away from the walls of God's church and our own church family or to do as God has called us to do and forget our troubled thoughts and desires?

Baptisim is an event, a worship event. We dedicate oursleves to to God and to follow Him. By having this baptism in a pool or in a Baptist church down the street we are placing what we want above what God has said.

When does one start following Christ, at baptism or some time later when they are finally ready?

Baptism by emersion is fine, but it should not be chosen if it is being done away from our own church. Baptism by spinkling or pouring is just as good. Its by water and The Word that we enter into the house of God, not by water alone. Baptists don't understand this or believe it, thats why they have what tghey refer to as baptism of The Holy Spirit. This is done in their eyes when they are able to prophesy or speak in tongues as they use this as evidence of their acceptance by God.

When we baptize we do so in the name of The Triune God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Unless we are baptized into all 3 we are not baptized into Christ our Savior.

 

[TCat]

Jim,

I was only referring to the Baptist Church because they have a baptistry fount in which emersion could be done not because this has anything to do with the Baptist denomination. And BTW not all Baptsit's do the speaking in tongues and prophesy thing or think that is a requirement for anything.

Please correct me if I am wrong but my understanding is what makes Baptism a means of Grace is the Word of God and some water. Having a baptism inside church walls or in a river or pool doesn't change what God is doing in it.

Baptism is a worship event! Yes, an amazing and wonderful worship event! Being inside 4 walls in a brick building has nothing to do with worship, it has everything to do with being in the presence of God.

Celebrating my friends Baptism with some of her Christian family and friends in a backyard will be full of worship and praise to God for what He has done and what He is doing!

 

[Jim47]

Baptisim does not have to be done within the walls of a church, but that doesn't mean that its not the best place for it, thats is what DaRev and I have been trying to say.

Its all a matter of getting ones priorities in line, and submitting to God's will and direction for us instead of having our own way. I fully realize that it can be done by the pool with church members present, but it is still not being done in God's House. That should be more important then being done by imersion, that is all I am trying to say.

My concern is that this person being baptized is placing too much emphasis on what she sees as tradition and not enough emphasis on having the blessing of it being done within the walls of Christ's church for which He died.

 

[TCat]

I understand what you are saying and maybe if we had a baptistry in our church she would decide to have it done there but since we don't and she feels strongly led to be immersed this seems to be a good choice.

Perhaps she is submitting to God's will in this direction. Since it's the Holy Spirit working faith in her maybe He has plans in this that we are not aware of.

I'm just glad she is choosing to be baptised. She already has faith and is a participating member of the church but knows that this is an important step to take as commanded by Christ.

 

[Confess]

Spoke to our Pastor this morning and after doing some research I find that Luther prefered baptism by full immersion too.

So, my friend can either be baptised in a church before the altar of God in the borrowed baptisty in the Baptist church down the street or in my pool. Here she will be surrounded by 30 or more Christian friends celebrating the means of Grace by which the Holy Spirit is sealing her with God's promise and giving her new life in Him.

We talked about making this an "event" which someone mentioned was inappropiate. I disagree, it is an event!
More important than a wedding or graduation this is a major event in her spiritual life and should be celebrated.

Sacraments are not events.

This person already has saving faith which has lead them to follow the command of Christ to be baptized.

This sacrament (like the Lord's Supper) forgives this person their sins and puts them in fellowship with their brothers and sisters in Christ.

So if you call this an "event", then you would have to say that every Lord's Supper is an event as well.

And that would just not make much sense as it takes the focus OFF of Christ an on to temoral times and acts (aka events that mark our lives).

Yes, things like having a child is an event, or going somewhere special for vacation or something of that nature are "events". These are things that are focused on outwardly things like people, places and things.

When the focus is on God ... it stops being an event.

The event stopped when Christ was resurrected from the dead. All that happens after that points us BACK to that last event of Christs'.

 

[DaRev]

The Sacraments are indeed "events." But they are events of God and not of us. Baptism is an event in the life of the Christian because it is where God works on them and in them. It is His work, His doing, His event.
It is when we try to make Baptism our event instead of God's event that there can be confusion and a loss of reverence.

While I do not at all agree with the method (and would not agree to do such a baptism myself), I have no doubt that this poolside baptism will be valid as long as it is done by one so authorized to do so and with water in the name of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. It is certainly something worth giving God glory, that this individual is being drawn by the Spirit to be baptized. It is my prayer, however, that this person be led to have her baptism publically recognized by the Rite of the Church within the congregation.

 

[dinkime]

i have a quick question, not wanting to ruffle feathers, etc -- where is it stated (in the BIBLE) that baptism has to be by sprinkling in a church? when Jesus said "go into the world, baptizing..." He did not say to build a church first...isn't baptism in a church by sprinkling our tradition? it is not mandated in the Bible to be done that way...