Baptisim

[Benedicta00]

August- http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_romcath.html

Here, I don’t have a calculator but if you would be so kind to add all these number up. I’d appreciate it.

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

August, please be sensible, there are at least a couple billion Christians world wide who do baptize for the remission of sins and only a few million, if even that who don't and do it for other reasons.

That is a red herring.
The question is not how many Christians there are that baptize.

Your statement was; There is nearly 2 billion Catholics world wide, who believe that baptism is absolutely neccessary for salvation, which a gross exaggeration and misrepresentation of the facts.

 

[Augustine_Was_Calvinist]

August- http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_romcath.html

Here, I don’t have a calculator but if you would be so kind to add all these number up. I’d appreciate it.

So, you are telling me that the official Vatican Radio source is wrong?

Should you really be refuting the Vatican?

The article from an official Vatican source was from 3 weeks ago, so I assume their numbers are current for today.

 

[Benedicta00]

Christian 2,106,962,000
Roman Catholics 1,105,808,000
Independents 416,541,000
Protestants 369,848,000
Orthodox 218,427,000
Anglicans 78,745,000
Muslims 1,283,424,000
Hindus 851,291,000
Chinese Universists 402,065,000
Buddhists 375,440,000
Sikhs 24,989,000
Jews 14,990,000

Here is a chart I got off of a Protestant site.

 

[Benedicta00]

Vatican Radio refutes that number.

Catholics worldwide register increase

The Catholic population in the world in 2004 increased by 12 million compared to 2003, according to the latest figures released by the Vatican. The statistics for 2003 and 2004 were contained in Vatican's annual yearbook, called the Annuario Pontificio for 2006, which was presented to Pope Benedict XVI on Saturday. According to the yearbook, the number of Catholics in the world grew from 1 billion 86 million in 2003 to 1 billion 98 million in 2004 - an increase of 1.1 percent. But in comparison to the world population, which grew from 6.301 billion in 2003 to 6.388 billion in 2004, the Catholic population shrunk by 0.1 percent. Catholics in 2003 formed 17.2% of the world population, whereas in 2004 the percentage declined to 17.1%. In the same period, 170 bishops were nominated around the world. The number of priests in the world in 2004 grew by 441 to 405,891; but this growth was not uniform in all the continents. There were 1,422 and 840 more priests in Asia and Africa respectively in 2004, whereas in the Americas and Oceania the number remained practically stationary. In 2004, there were 1,876 fewer priests in Europe compared to 2003. However, the number of permanent deacons in North America and Europe has increased to 32,324.

http://www.oecumene.radiovaticana.org/in2/Articolo.asp?c=67147

In reality, according to the official Vatican Radio source, the number is closer to 1.09 billion, nearly half of the number presented here as fact.

Okay… it's 1 billion, 1 million Catholics and the Orthodox is so many million. Just between us alone not counting Lutherans and Anglicans more Christians do believe baptism is regenerative than those who do not.

 

[Tonks]

The numbers are not that relevant to the discussion. FWIW, there are about 1.1 billion Catholics. I think that AWC's quesiton about determining intent etc was interesting and probably more profitable for discussion.

However, as this is a quesiton solely about baptism I'm not sure why it is tipping towards yet another Catholics v. other debate - though i am in no way surprised.

 

[Schroeder]

Still like to be showed how you know its baptism of the spirit...no one has showed me how they got that.

And no I didnt switch the words around in Acts 2:38..i copied and pasted straight from NKJ. Also it nevers says just to repent.

read the passages i gave you. john 3:18, says the same thing except the word baptism, john 7:37-39 tells us why. mark 16:16 is after he is glorified so he can now speak of this SPirit baptism, which John the baptist said he would give us. also read mark 17, these sign will accompony those who BELIEVE. left out the word baptism again. WHY? because the SPirit baptism is already done, and cant be seen, except through your works. your works or way of life shows whether you have received this SPirit baptism or not. you will show you have been BORN again and are a new creature or new man.
your right my NKJV says it the same though it is incorrect. it should say repent and baptism, everyone of you, in the name of. if it is there way, it is not true because water baptism does not bring forgiveness of sins. nor gives you the SPirit. John 3:5 says the SPirit gives you the Spirit and Eph. 1:13-14 says belief gives the SPirit. which supports Mark 16:16 being the SPirit baptism as well. As does Acts 15:8. ANd HOW can you repent if you dont first BELIEVE in christ. if you did not believe him you would not be repentive. it is the SAME THING. if you repent you belief. SO if you believe and repent you TRUELY believe and receive the baptism of the holy Spirit. BUT if you believe but dont repent you will NOT receive the SPirit. i can go into GREAT detail on this subject if you want.

 

[A New Dawn]

There is nearly 2 billion Catholics world wide, Catholics make up most of the Christian population and then Orthodox is second then Protestants.

Catholic and Orthodox most certainly believe in baptism that saves and so do Lutherans, Anglicans and a few other Protestant sects so I can be very confident that, world wide, a few billion believe that baptism saves.

According to several sites, at least in the U.S. (I don't know if it is different, statistically in Europe, etc.), Protestantism is the largest (by far) group of Christians.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_deno.htm
Size of religious groups in the U.S.
Polling data from early 2001 indicate that:

• 76.5% (159 million) of Americans identify themselves as Christian. This is a major slide from 86.2% in 1990. Identification with Christianity has suffered a loss of 9.7 percentage points in 11 years -- about 0.9 percentage points per year.
• 52% of Americans identified themselves as Protestant.
• 24.5% are Roman Catholic.
• 14.1% do not follow any organized religion. This is an unusually rapid increase from only 8% in 1990.
• 1.3% are Jewish.
• 0.5% are Muslim, followers of Islam.

http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html#Pew_branches
Survey Response %, ................ March 2002
Protestant ..................... .............. 52
Catholic ......................... .............. 24
Mormon ........................................ 2
Orthodox ....................................... *
Non-denominational ....................... 0
Something else (Specify) ................ 2
Not practicing any religion .............. 0
Don't know/Refused ....................... 2


The numbers don't make any difference, though, as my post stated that most Christians agree that baptism is necessary (for one reason or another)

 

[Inviolable]

I don't believe myself getting baptised is necessary. There are verses that talk about being baptised but those verses always mention faith or beliefe or tell you to repent.
I believe that it is important to get baptised to show that you have washed away your sins.
But I strongly believe there is only one thing that will get you to heaven and that is the blood of Christ.

Its simple really, just ask Jesus for forgiveness of your sins.

Then if you want to show the world that you are born again be baptised.
Baptism can get you in the Spirit.
But only Jesus saves.

 

[Tonks]

According to several sites, at least in the U.S. (I don't know if it is different, statistically in Europe, etc.), Protestantism is the largest (by far) group of Christians.

Protestants, in total, may be larger (they certainly are in the US). Catholicism is the largest group that maintains a single theology and doctrine - in the US and the world. Considering that Protestants range from the almost proto-Catholic High Anglians to the "church of the individual" pretty much the only common thread they have is that they're not Catholic.

This isn't a value judgment on my part - it simply is what it is. Frankly, the concern over numbers is somewhat bizarre, at least to me.

 

[Benedicta00]

How many people believe that it is necessary for Salvation.

More Christians do than don't, is that better? Non Christians don’t believe in any baptism at all, so brining them into is moot.

 

[Benedicta00]

According to several sites, at least in the U.S. (I don't know if it is different, statistically in Europe, etc.), Protestantism is the largest (by far) group of Christians.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_deno.htm
Size of religious groups in the U.S.
Polling data from early 2001 indicate that:

• 76.5% (159 million) of Americans identify themselves as Christian. This is a major slide from 86.2% in 1990. Identification with Christianity has suffered a loss of 9.7 percentage points in 11 years -- about 0.9 percentage points per year.
• 52% of Americans identified themselves as Protestant.
• 24.5% are Roman Catholic.
• 14.1% do not follow any organized religion. This is an unusually rapid increase from only 8% in 1990.
• 1.3% are Jewish.
• 0.5% are Muslim, followers of Islam.

http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html#Pew_branches
Survey Response %, ................ March 2002
Protestant ..................... .............. 52
Catholic ......................... .............. 24
Mormon ........................................ 2
Orthodox ....................................... *
Non-denominational ....................... 0
Something else (Specify) ................ 2
Not practicing any religion .............. 0
Don't know/Refused ....................... 2


The numbers don't make any difference, though, as my post stated that most Christians agree that baptism is necessary (for one reason or another)

In America maybe which is not surprising in light of America’s history and intolerance of Catholics and other faiths even breathing the same air here in America .

If we want to get in to a match about it- Catholic missions were here first working with native Americans, way before Protestants came over on the boat running all the natives off and discriminationg against catholics.

 

[Inviolable]

More Christians do than don't, is that better? Non Christians don’t believe in any baptism at all, so brining them into is moot.

Let me ask you this.

Why did Jesus even bother getting crucified if getting baptised was the way to salvation?

 

[ScottBot]

Let me ask you this.

Why did Jesus even bother getting crucified if getting baptised was the way to salvation?

Let me ask YOU this. Why did Christ get baptised if HE is the way the truth and the life?

 

[Inviolable]

Before Jesus baptism was a baptism of sin.
After Jesus it was a baptism of Grace.

Jesus got baptised to show that baptism had gone from sin to grace.

Considering Jesus had never sinned, that is what he demonstrated by his baptism.

 

[ScottBot]

Before Jesus baptism was a baptism of sin.
After Jesus it was a baptism of Grace.

Jesus got baptised to show that baptism had gone from sin to grace.

Considering Jesus had never sinned, that is what he demonstrated by his baptism.

And what does grace do?

 

[Benedicta00]

Let me ask you this.

Why did Jesus even bother getting crucified if getting baptised was the way to salvation?

Oh my, will dichotomies ever end?

))))Huh???((((

 

[Benedicta00]

And what does grace do?

IT SAVES YOU!!!!!!!

 

[Tonks]

Let me ask you this.

Why did Jesus even bother getting crucified if getting baptised was the way to salvation?

Because there is more to salvation than saying "Thanks Jesus!"

 

[Inviolable]

In the old days God demanded a offering for sin.
Blood of the animals cleansed people of their sins.
That wasnt good enough, it had to be done to often.

So by the Grace of God he sent his son.

By accepting his son into your heart youre in Gods Grace.

Do you want me to give you the definition of Grace?
or just what it means.