Aussie Church Failing?

[Bevlina]

It's tougher in some places in country Australia. Of course, many are entrenched with religionism and churchianity than christianity. In fact, christianity seems to have gone out the door. Once they all say their hallalujahs and out the door, they forget about loving their neighbour.
TV Churchianity is becoming increasingly popular with Joyce Meyer's and Benny Hinn's of TV.
But...I stand by what I said before. It is up to each of us to set an example of true christianity. But ... unfortunately, I have heard it said too many times that christians are hypocrites and the people just won't be bothered with them.
I know that following my husband's death, I had to receive alot of advice. Part of that advice I will never forget. "If a salesman tells you he is a christian ... walk away and have nothing to do with that person."
I saw that advice in action when my fridge thermostat went. I called the repair man. He came bouncing in and talked about The Lord and was praising The Lord all over the place. He proclaimed amazing things.
When I got the bill ... he had robbed me...
I complained to another person and was told he had done the same to them.
The values have gone out of many churches ... and people won't have a bar of them no matter what they preach.

 

[Icystwolf]

Thats why I Judgement day is so just!

 

[artofwar]

I do understand this to a point but remember when an unsaved person gets to judgement day they cant give the excuses that "all the Hypocrites" made me not go to church or become a christian, its between them and God then

 

[Icystwolf]

I do understand this to a point but remember when an unsaved person gets to judgement day they cant give the excuses that "all the Hypocrites" made me not go to church or become a christian, its between them and God then

They can, but they still won't get up into heaven...instead they bring down those who are hypocrites who thought they were going into heaven and they'd be thrown down to hell....

 

[artofwar]

They can, but they still won't get up into heaven...instead they bring down those who are hypocrites who thought they were going into heaven and they'd be thrown down to hell....

true unless of course they do repent before hand , but then it might be too late for the person who has been offended and doesnt want a bar of christianity

 

[Icystwolf]

true unless of course they do repent before hand , but then it might be too late for the person who has been offended and doesnt want a bar of christianity

Salvation comes by, if God Chooses that person to be in his Kingdom. Not the other way around...

 

[artofwar]

Salvation comes by, if God Chooses that person to be in his Kingdom. Not the other way around...

according to calvinists Icy , but i disagree to point and i agree to a point

 

[Bevlina]

I think we all should often refer to the woes Jesus gave to the scribes and pharicees. God is a very just God. There are many things He cannot abide. Sadly, today we still have the modern day scribes and pharicees. But, we still have wonderful examples of christians to follow. I still say it is up to all of us to set an example as true christians and let out lights shine. A kind word always turns away wrath. And, it's so easy to love people and prove it by visiting the lonely, and sick etc; A smile costs nothing.
The churches today have let us down a little but with child abuse scandals etc; it doesn't give heart to those people who do not go to church to attend, and join in.

 

[nahMish]

church growth shouldnt be measured in attendance....(key word, SHOULDNT!). this is something that i am slowly learning...
at uni we are running evangelistic programs..yes, we have had a few people come...yes, they have been interested and had bible studies..but only 2 went through with baptism...(dissapointing??? or not???)
NOW- its tempting to look at what is going on at other churches and think that your own church is somehow lacking..but when i look at my own church i see tremendous GROWTH, not in numbers (4 baptisms a year -max) but more MATURITY...God has truly poured out his spirit in my church- yes, people are leaving..but it is really those that have been truly filled with God that stay. christianity isnt something to dabble with, it is a lifestyle, spiritual, lifelong COMITTMENT.

i think australia isnt very open to christianity because we are such a sport-culture..sport and pubs are our lifestyle..our religion...

it comes down to the fact that you alone are responsible for your salvation...not the hypocrites sitting next to you in church that are there for entertainment. when you come to judgment day, you cant reside on the fact that you never felt "wanted" by any church...shouldnt it be your "want" of jesus keep you there- regardless whether you agreed with the sermon or music style?

 

[Bevlina]

You are right about the sporting side to Australia nahMish, and the pubs. It seems to be the most popular 'religion' there is! But there are many christians who prefer to just believe and practise that belief without going to church. Mainly because they can see services on TV and hear sermons online. But, it's sad to see so many country churches being sold for lack of support. I know that's mainly due to transport but to see them being used as private homes is a little odd.
But, the city churches seem to be going OK.

 

[Blessed-one]

sports? there're more things to just sports. It's the curse of a materialistic and entertaining world. (material + entertainment)

entertained, that's what youth only wants these days. I don't know whether we can blame it on 'young people want fun, it's in their nature' though.

But there are many christians who prefer to just believe and practise that belief without going to church.

i used to think that one can also grow much without going to church, but i've recently changed my mind. One cannot grow without being in some kind of relationship with others, for it is in relationship that we can exhibit Christ's characteristics, and it is through relationships that God points us out of the bad side of us (such as omitting grace in speech, being intolerant over small things.. etc etc). He did not create us to live by ourselves, else he could have just created Adam and us women (um, all the descendents) wouldn't be here today. He chose Israelites the people, not Israel a person.
um, just wanted to say that.. didn't mean to be argumentative..

 

[I'm4Him]

I think the main reason that the church of Australia is not growing is because people dont need Him. When they have family, an excellent social life and money, why would they need Him??? I mean, we all know why but when people are having such a good time doing what they want, why do they need the restrictions and commitment of a church and religion.

I think another reason is because we are too wishy washy. There is so much bad stuff happening in churches that people dont trust us...I dont want to pick on anyone but when a catholic minister is charged with sexual assault, what does that look like to a 'worldly' person??? I think we need to start teaching and preaching more wholesome stuff, we arent using the Bible enough!!!!

 

[abigail.mcintyre]

church growth shouldnt be measured in attendance....(key word, SHOULDNT!).

it comes down to the fact that you alone are responsible for your salvation...not the hypocrites sitting next to you in church that are there for entertainment. when you come to judgment day, you cant reside on the fact that you never felt "wanted" by any church...shouldnt it be your "want" of jesus keep you there- regardless whether you agreed with the sermon or music style?

I believe the most important thing in a church is unity - it is not about numbers. One on fire Christian can change the world - 2 even more etc.

Churches are run like businesses and pyramid sales teams today! There is a high turn over of believers, just as there is a high turn over of employees from these methods. They don't live up to their promise - like the fig tree Jesus cursed. They have no real food to offer and leave people hungry and thirsty.

Some churches stay in an infant stage - never growing to spiritual maturity.
But God still uses them to bring people into the kingdom.

People need to ask themselves why they go to church. To worship God, to hear the word, to fellowship with other believers, to serve God and help others, to preach, teach, lead, in obedience to a calling from God?
Church is meant to be God centered. It is all about loving God and others.

If you go to church to be entertained, to meet friends, to be seen at the latest popular venue, to critically assess the speaker, or to gossip, maybe you won't have as blessed a time as you could.

People who leave churches because they get offended (fail to forgive), are really doing themselves a disservice unless the ministry is abusive. It takes about five years to build up a trust based relationship with another person to the degree that you are comfortable to be totally transparent before them and confess your deepest, darkest sins without hesitation. People deprive themselves of this blessing when they church hop and sever relationships.
Humans are wounded in relationships and can only be healed in relationship with God and others. We go to church to grow in relationship with God and others. He says do not stop meeting together. It is for our benefit!
Love in Christ Abi

 

[padey]

i used to think that one can also grow much without going to church

This is an interesting point. Being a Christian out of community is completely outside the New Testament understanding! You couldn’t be a Christian outside of community, because who you related to, was were you go your identity.

Secondly, if you converted to Christianity you were kicked out of your family, because Christianity was a sect of Judaism and this sect was the lowest group in the social structure. So when NT writers call people ‘brother’, they actually mean it, eg Philemon. As there was no social welfare, if you got kicked out of home you had no job, no place to live and no future. So becoming a Christian meant you literally had a new family.

 

[Icystwolf]

I think the main reason that the church of Australia is not growing is because people dont need Him. When they have family, an excellent social life and money, why would they need Him??? I mean, we all know why but when people are having such a good time doing what they want, why do they need the restrictions and commitment of a church and religion.

Are you saying that it is possible for people not to need God?

I don't think thats exactly the reason, rather theres a more sinister side to society that one must realise and that to me is very fustrating

Because, you look one way and look another, and yeh...theres more in it than what we really think.

I think another reason is because we are too wishy washy. There is so much bad stuff happening in churches that people dont trust us...I dont want to pick on anyone but when a catholic minister is charged with sexual assault, what does that look like to a 'worldly' person??? I think we need to start teaching and preaching more wholesome stuff, we arent using the Bible enough!!!!

This isn't a straight forward argument as one might think.

The fact that we still care for a family and protection onto our own children, is a clear fact that God created us to be relational with each other and with God.

The world still knows what relationships are, but miss uses them even though they don't know what exactly it means yet they do it for pleasure.

Hence, they would see the church as being out of relationship with God, rather than the non-existance of God.

 

[Bevlina]

Nevertheless, I just read on the web that Christianity is the largest religion on earth.
But, I often wonder if some churches don't misconstrue the Word of God. Sometimes, it appears that they can use a text and turn it into whatever they want it to be suit themselves.
For example:
Not long ago, people were preaching that no matter what sickness people had, they were already healed by the stripes of Jesus, and to claim their health back again.
T.L. Osborne's advice to pastors and believers was to to "assume authority, on the grounds of substitution,and COMMAND those pains and sicknesses to leave" (T.L.Osborne - Healing The Sick)
Jim, do you really believe the world still knows what relationships are? Do you think they realize the dedication and devotion to a relationship?

I get a bit cross with people today. White was once used by virgins to wear as a wedding gown. Today the churches accept these brides lies and the bride comes tripping down the aisle in all her white bridal finery while her child/ or kids...are watching in the congregation...or acting as little flower people and scattering rosepetals at her feet.
Is this right? I don't believe it is. I believe it is the heighth of hypocrisy- and, yet the churches allow it!
This happened in my town a year ago. At the catholic church! In my day,even an impure thought was a sin! And that mean't even thinking of kissing a boy.

The churches have accepted these things as everyday. So, do you think they are preaching in the right manner?

The churches are reaching out to and helping unmarried women who have more than one kiddie. So is the Government. These women go back and back to different church handout organisations to get money and food given to them. And, it is handed out by good meaning folk happily. Is this right?
Shouldn't these women be screened for church handouts? Many of them take any money they are given to the pokies. Then howl when they have lost it and run to the another church for a hand out. And, the church gives again.
What sort of as message is this relaying to folk who would go to church?

Many people see churches are hypocritical establishments today and believe, but stay away.

 

[Icystwolf]

Christianity is the largest...however that would include catholicism and mormons and other cults...so it's not an entirely accurate picture.

The accurate picture is whats found in the scriptures, a drop water in a wave!

 

[Bevlina]

Catholics aan Mormon's believe in Jesus crucified Jim. In fact, the at the catholic church, I learned more about the crucifixion and ressurection of Jesus than anywhere else.
I didn't agree with kissing the Archbishop's ring and all that weird stuff. But, I did learn about Jesus Christ.
As a mormon, I knew about it too, but, there was more there about the angel moroni, the mormon tabenacle choir, Joseph Smoth and Brigham Young. But, they believed in Christ crucified. But, their had a weird little thing about going to a temple to be baptised for dead people, and being married for eternity. Quite odd really!

 

[padey]

Catholics aan Mormon's believe in Jesus crucified Jim. In fact, the at the catholic church, I learned more about the crucifixion and ressurection of Jesus than anywhere else.
I didn't agree with kissing the Archbishop's ring and all that weird stuff. But, I did learn about Jesus Christ.
As a mormon, I knew about it too, but, there was more there about the angel moroni, the mormon tabenacle choir, Joseph Smoth and Brigham Young. But, they believed in Christ crucified. But, their had a weird little thing about going to a temple to be baptised for dead people, and being married for eternity. Quite odd really!

Mormonism is a cult!



Here is a good read! http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Cults/mormon.htm

 

[Bevlina]

Ok! OK! I know that...I was a mormon! No need to yell at me. I am not a mormon now...but...they still believe in Jesus Christ and the resurrection. I do not condemn anyone nor have the courage to say what's right or wrong. That's up to God.