Aussie Church Failing?

[artofwar]

Isn't it up to us to keep clear of churches which have a liberal stance on homosexuals,
and those which are money grabbers?
Some churches can reign under a guise. Paul said "I will not suffer a woman to preach"...but try to tell the churches that...and the women.

True but you need to get the true stance of their doctrine not from second or third hand talk, also look at the whole stance not just the snippet you have heard or seen

in regards to women why do you think paul said that? cultural?

 

[Bevlina]

Not me art. I believe Paul stated women full stop. Women have a role to perform for their husbands and family. With that role also goes the caring for aged parents. They are quite good teachers to the children too. But personally, I agree with the Bible in all it's entirety with not one jot, not tittle to be changed, or twisted to suit man in any way.
If the Bible said, God said it, and if God said it...that settles it.
God knew the Bible would reach down to the year 2004. And He doesn't miss a trick.
In my eyes, women have a tendency to lean towards pride. I see women in Institutionalised churches parading down the aisles in their long gowns to be "ordained"
and wonder how much they really know of their Bibles.
I see women on TV today done up to the nines preaching out things and strutting the stage with their expensive jewellery and makeup flashing.
Immediatlely I see them, I do not see the Fruits of the Spirit ... where's the humility?
The Fruits are complete. We aren't given ONE Fruit...we are given them all.

 

[artofwar]

thats a pretty big call Bev, so are you saying you believe the Bible to be literal in its reading? do you also believe that womens heads should be covered in Church as the Bible states?not all women are pridefull that are in leadership. If God is no respector of persons then why cant Women teach or preach?

 

[Bevlina]

Yep...it is a pretty big call art. And, it's pretty harsh. Yes, in the 1950's we women never entered church without a hat.
If there are no prideful women preachers, I have yet to see them art. I've seen enough on TV to last me a life time. And, yes, I do believe the Bible to be literal.
The Bible made a statement there. I can't wipe it out. If it states women should not preach, who am I to argue? Who am I to go against what the Bible states and go and listen to these women? Who am I to argue with God?
God may be no respector of people, but, that doesn't alter the fact that the Bible made that statement. I've heard it said..." Paul said HE will not suffer a woman to preach" I believe the whole Bible, word for word is the Inspired Word Of God.
Once again...we can come back to the Fruit of the Spirit. Fruit is singular, not plural.
And, once again with some of these TV women preacher's ... and 'humility'.

 

[artofwar]

Yep...it is a pretty big call art. And, it's pretty harsh. Yes, in the 1950's we women never entered church without a hat.
If there are no prideful women preachers, I have yet to see them art. I've seen enough on TV to last me a life time. And, yes, I do believe the Bible to be literal.
The Bible made a statement there. I can't wipe it out. If it states women should not preach, who am I to argue? Who am I to go against what the Bible states and go and listen to these women? Who am I to argue with God?
God may be no respector of women, but, that doesn't alter the fact that the Bible made that statement. I've heard it said..." Paul said HE will not suffer a woman to preach" I believe the whole Bible, word for word is the Inspired Word Of God.
Once again...we can come back to the Fruit of the Spirit. Fruit is singular, not plural.
And, once again with some of these TV women preacher's ... and 'humility'

so would you chop off a hand of a person that stole something? or pluck out an eye if that causes you to stumble? just because some people look pridefull on TV doesnt make everyone thats in leadership in the world is the same as those few, and if you entered a church now would you cover you head? why dont you think its a Cultural thing by the way?im not having a go at you dont get me wrong but im curious about some views people have on here about certain things. if Billy Graham had an off day and you met him and he didnt seem to have the fruits of the spirit would you disregard him as a Christian? what if a women is a better leader and had all the frutis of the spirit but the leading man is not half the leader she is and has only have the fruits of the spirit do you just disregard he and give him the Job? if a women preachers and gets 1000 people saved do you disregard their salvation and her ?.

 

[artofwar]

evidently what verse does it say about a women preaching?

 

[Bevlina]

For some reason art, I don't have a great deal of time for Billy Graham.
I know you're not having a go at me. Many people wonder why I have this stance on women preaching. And reason is ... the Bible states 'I will not suffer a woman to preach'.

A woman can TEACH, and bring as many children to God, and adults too, as a preaching women.
If the woman has the Fruit of the spirit and would make a better leader than the man, the man should not be leading a church in the first place. He'd be better off in the congregation learning.
A woman can get 1,000 teenagers to learn about Jesus by genty teaching them. Not preaching to them.

 

[artofwar]

why can they teach and not preach? what are the major differences between the two?

 

[artofwar]

to reiterate this question:so would you chop off a hand of a person that stole something? or pluck out an eye if that causes you to stumble?

 

[BELIEVER04]

hey Bev
I've been lokin 4 ya.
what r u's chattin 'bout

 

[Bevlina]

1 Timothy 2:12...

Sorry...this states 'teach'...

"But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."
The reason? Adam was created before the woman.

Also note 2 Tim2:9

" in like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety, NOT WITH BRAIDED HAIR, OR GOLD, OR PEARLS OR COSTLY ARRAY'


10. But (which becomes women professing godliness) WITH GOOD WORKS.

 

[Bevlina]

Bur...sssshhhhh....don't tell the women today...we could have law suit against it for being sexist....

 

[artofwar]

apparantly it was a Cultural thing as Paul was talking about the Women of Crete as they were being prideful in the way they were acting in the church

 

[artofwar]

apparantly it was a Cultural thing as Paul was talking about the Women of Crete as they were being prideful in the way they were acting in the church

 

[Koey]

apparantly it was a Cultural thing as Paul was talking about the Women of Crete as they were being prideful in the way they were acting in the church

Yes, I've heard that. I don't know where to find the evidence, but "they" say the women of one church had been so oppressed that they got out of control under Christian freedom and were babbling too much.

The same "they" also say that women could prophesy and pray in public if they wore their hair long or had some other kind of "veil." I don't know if that was really talking about public prophesy and public prayers or just private stuff though. The Scripture is somewhat unclear to me in these areas.

I find it interesting that Catholics have CHANGED Paul's advice that elders be the husband of one wife to celibate males only, and some Protestants have changed it to either males or females. To me both have CHANGED something and made it more complicated than the original.

Whether or not those changes are legitimate, I cannot tell. I do not wish to judge the faith of others. That is between them and God. Without further substantial evidence tho, I lean to the simple, straight forward interpretation for now.

 

[Bevlina]

Yes, Paul was in Macedonia I believe art. But can't you see how his words line up with Proverb's 31: 10-31?
God's word doesn't change. And, I am well aware that according to today's stance on women I can be thrown to the lions for saying this as TIMES have changed. But God's Word has remained as solid as a rock.
There is another few words in the Bible that people skim over today...Prov28:22
"He that hastens to be rich has an evil eye."
This lines up with what Jesus stated when He said " don't lay up riches for yourself"
Do you see what I am getting at? Many church founders today, and their leaders are looking to the almighty dollar. Do you know that the Word of God today is a multi Billion Dollar empire? It's wrong...very, very wrong art. And I am sure you would be the first to agree. These leaders would have great fun balancing their books and looking at their credit and saying how good God has been to them.

Back to women.

I've watched Joyce Meyer, Marilyn Hickey and TV and heard Gloria Copeland. And believe me, I feel inside myself that these women have got something very, very wrong.
Adam was the first created. Not Eve. Yet, she was the one who was seduced by the serpant into doing the wrong thing. She then got her husband to do the same thing.
God will not be mocked. yet, women are mocking Him every day in this day of women's equality.
Today, women WANT to be equal. No doubt, many of them would make the finest of preacher's, and therefore teacher's. But if they searched their hearts...would the ones who have become rich on teaching and preaching give all those riches up and live in a world of poverty? I think not.
Remember, when Jesus was tempted in the Wilderness, Satan offered him the kingdoms of the world if He would bow down to Satan and his greed. Jesus said "NO." And, He continued to live a life of humility and patienct love.
The women followed Him. Loved Him. It was a woman who annointed Him with very, very, VERY, costly ointment. A woman who first saw Him after the resurrection. And, what did the women in the NT do? They did as what was expected of them through the scriptures. They cared for the men and helped in any way they could. It was no big deal to them.
Today, it's a different ballgame. Women are not content to do those things. And, it's a sign of the times.
It is good to search the scriptures and see for yourself where the world has gone astray today. Not to rely on my word for it, but to see for yourself where these women are going wrong, and where the men are going wrong.

 

[artofwar]

ok first things first the money thing yes people do things wrong in regards to money i agree, but if you are using money to better the kingdom as in not keeping it for yourself i think is good , which of course IS Biblical, also to prosper is Biblical "our cup runneth over" springs to mind.
Women in the Church, what about Esther and ruth? great women of God, what about all the thousands the people you are referring to that have got people saved? are they really saved under a woman teaching? or is it void? the Teacher( Holy spirit) has come so we better understand the scriptures is this how have interpereted this?>

 

[Bevlina]

I find it interesting that Catholics have CHANGED Paul's advice that elders be the husband of one wife to celibate males only, and some Protestants have changed it to either males or females. To me both have CHANGED something and made it more complicated than the original.

Ahhhh Koey, maybe the day will come wen they throw alot of Paul's words about women out of the Bible...as well as those about homosexuals.
I was amazed to find they have slashed texts out of the NIV which were in the KJV.
Words uttered by Jesus Himself....

 

[artofwar]

Bev am i getting you right? you want to take out the bits about women and Gays???????????????

 

[Bevlina]

ok first things first the money thing yes people do things wrong in regards to money i agree, but if you are using money to better the kingdom as in not keeping it for yourself i think is good , which of course IS Biblical, also to prosper is Biblical "our cup runneth over" springs to mind.
Women in the Church, what about Esther and ruth? great women of God, what about all the thousands the people you are referring to that have got people saved? are they really saved under a woman teaching? or is it void? the Teacher( Holy spirit) has come so we better understand the scriptures is this how have interpereted this?>

Yes art, if the money is kept onLY for the poor and those in need. We will note that Paul carried money from other churches given for the poor.

I love the Book of Esther. Actually, I think that book is the only one which does not mention God if I remember correctly. Correct me if i'm wrong. It's some time since I read Esther.
Ruth...yes indeed. Another wonderful woman of God.
We also find lovely women in the NT. Very humble, sweet women.
The thing about women getting people saved today art is, are they preaching/teaching the right things? Are they setting the absolute right example? If we look at their costly array on TV, and (for example) the high security fences around Joyce Meyer's house, is this right? The jets, I believe, she has bought her children?
She has confessed to mistakes in some of her knowledge. What more mistakes can she make?
We must always remember Matthew7:13;16

Taking note particularly of 14. "Because strait is the gate and narrow is the way which leads into life,and few there be that find it"
There are many references to 'cup'...the Cup of salvation in 116;13 is but one.
Ps23:5
"Thou prepared a table before me in the presence of my enemies; thou annoints my head with oil; my cup runneth over. Surey MERCY and GOODNESS will FOLLOW me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the Lord forever,"

Mercy and Goodness art...