ATTENTION all Christians......

[lilbeliever]

i agree init

 

[EchoPneuma]

Well, so far we have a consensus.....hopefully more people will weigh in......

The current list at this point: (Subject to change as the thread continues)

1There is a life beyond this physical existence.
2 God (Elohim) created mankind as male and female
3 Mankind was created for a purpose.
4 God (Elohim) has a special attachment to his children. [who these children are would certianly be a point of contention]
5 Jesus (Yeshua) is the way to the Father
6 God (Elohim) is sovereign
7 Jesus (Yeshua) is the saviour
8 We are to love God (Elohim) foremost, one another and others- (do unto others as you would have them do to you)
9 God (Elohim) wants obedience from His followers
10 Sin displeases God (Elohim)
11 God (Elohim) wants us to repent, turn away from sin and live a holy life.
12 . God (Elohim) is just
13 We are to live by faith
14. God (Elohim) wants a relationship with us
15 God (Elohim) is love
16 Love is the supreme virtue
17 God (Elohim) wants us to know His will
18 God (Elohim) will guide us, if we will let Him
19 We should obey the 10 commandments
20. Jesus (Yeshua) taught and lived the truth
21 Jesus (Yeshua) is Lord
22 Jesus (Yeshua) is the resurrection and the life
23 Jesus (Yeshua) is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world
24 Jesus (Yeshua) is the Christ
25 Jesus (Yeshua) is the light of the world
26 Christians (believers) should exhibit the fruits of the Spirit
27 God (Elohim) created everything seen and unseen
28 God (Elohim) wants us to seek His will and follow it
29 Jesus Christ (Yeshua Messiach) is the Word of God
30. Sin separates us from God (Elohim)
31-Jesus (Yeshua) is the Alpha and Omega

 

[BarryK]

Jesus was the TRUTH, He didn't just teach and live it. Any reason why you stated that? Just curious.

John 14:6 Jesus saith to him, `I am the way, and The Truth, and the life, no one doth come unto the Father, if not through me;

Because there are certain Christians who see "truth" as an abstraction or a concept...like saying 2+2=4 is truth and Napoleon was defeated at Waterloo is truth...and if Jesus is LITERALLY the "truth", does that make Jesus a math formula or a historical fact?? He can't be an abstract thing like "truth"....He is a real person....who is the embodiment of truth. At least that's the way they see it. So I know it is an area of disagreement....so I left it off. That doesn't mean I don't believe it....it just means that it's a statement that all CHristians won't agree with, so it's not on the list.

If "I Am the way, the truth and the life" is a statement that all Christians cant agree with, I have to doubt their claims of being a Christian

 

[BarryK]

Well, so far we have a consensus.....hopefully more people will weigh in......

The current list at this point: (Subject to change as the thread continues)

1There is a life beyond this physical existence.
2 God (Elohim) created mankind as male and female
3 Mankind was created for a purpose.
4 God (Elohim) has a special attachment to his children. [who these children are would certianly be a point of contention]
5 Jesus (Yeshua) is the way to the Father
6 God (Elohim) is sovereign
7 Jesus (Yeshua) is the saviour
8 We are to love God (Elohim) foremost, one another and others- (do unto others as you would have them do to you)
9 God (Elohim) wants obedience from His followers
10 Sin displeases God (Elohim)
11 God (Elohim) wants us to repent, turn away from sin and live a holy life.
12 . God (Elohim) is just
13 We are to live by faith
14. God (Elohim) wants a relationship with us
15 God (Elohim) is love
16 Love is the supreme virtue
17 God (Elohim) wants us to know His will
18 God (Elohim) will guide us, if we will let Him
19 We should obey the 10 commandments
20. Jesus (Yeshua) taught and lived the truth
21 Jesus (Yeshua) is Lord
22 Jesus (Yeshua) is the resurrection and the life
23 Jesus (Yeshua) is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world
24 Jesus (Yeshua) is the Christ
25 Jesus (Yeshua) is the light of the world
26 Christians (believers) should exhibit the fruits of the Spirit
27 God (Elohim) created everything seen and unseen
28 God (Elohim) wants us to seek His will and follow it
29 Jesus Christ (Yeshua Messiach) is the Word of God
30. Sin separates us from God (Elohim)
31-Jesus (Yeshua) is the Alpha and Omega

Shall we modify #21 "Jesus IS Lord" to
Jesus IS Lord, Jesus Has Allways Been Lord, He Allways Will Be Lord

He IS from "everlasting to everlasting" That is HE IS FOREVER in both Directions, Foward into the future and Backwards into the Past

Psalm 93:1-5 (KJV)
1 The LORD reigneth, he is clothed with majesty; the LORD is clothed with strength, wherewith he hath girded himself: the world also is stablished, that it cannot be moved. 2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting. 3 The floods have lifted up, O LORD, the floods have lifted up their voice; the floods lift up their waves. 4 The LORD on high is mightier than the noise of many waters, yea, than the mighty waves of the sea. 5 Thy testimonies are very sure: holiness becometh thine house, O LORD, for ever.

Psalm 90:1-4(KJV)
1 Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations. 2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. 3 Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men. 4 For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

Isaiah 63:15-19(KJV)
15 Look down from heaven, and behold from the habitation of thy holiness and of thy glory: where is thy zeal and thy strength, the sounding of thy bowels and of thy mercies toward me? are they restrained? 16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.

Micah 5:1-4(KJV)
1 Now gather thyself in troops, O daughter of troops: he hath laid siege against us: they shall smite the judge of Israel with a rod upon the cheek. 2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. 3 Therefore will he give them up, until the time that she which travaileth hath brought forth: then the remnant of his brethren shall return unto the children of Israel. 4 And he shall stand and feed in the strength of the LORD, in the majesty of the name of the LORD his God; and they shall abide: for now shall he be great unto the ends of the earth.

 

[Catherineanne]

Well, so far we have a consensus.....hopefully more people will weigh in......

I am glad you are happy with your consensus.

I personally believe that a consensus achieved by excluding or rationalising away some viewpoints is no consensus at all. It becomes meaningless; an expression only of what you want to hear, not what was actually said.

 

[EchoPneuma]

I am glad you are happy with your consensus.

I personally believe that a consensus achieved by excluding or rationalising away some viewpoints is no consensus at all. It becomes meaningless; an expression only of what you want to hear, not what was actually said.

Like I said before Catherine, you don't understand the purpose of the list to begin with. It's to list those spiritual truths that UNITE us and that ALL believers agree on....it LEAVES OUT those things that cause division because of personal interpretation and denominationalism. I think eveyone knows that the list isn't all encompassing of Christian belief for ANY one group of believers...including yours. If you don't like what I'm doing here.....why don't you start your own thread with a list of those things that only YOUR particular brand of Christianity agree on and get your OWN consensus that you feel would be "meaningful".

 

[EchoPneuma]

Shall we modify #21 "Jesus IS Lord" to
Jesus IS Lord, Jesus Has Allways Been Lord, He Allways Will Be Lord

He IS from "everlasting to everlasting" That is HE IS FOREVER in both Directions, Foward into the future and Backwards into the Past
.

Very well. I will put that in and see what happens....

The current list at this point: (Subject to change as the thread continues)

1There is a life beyond this physical existence.
2 God (Elohim) created mankind as male and female
3 Mankind was created for a purpose.
4 God (Elohim) has a special attachment to his children. [who these children are would certianly be a point of contention]
5 Jesus (Yeshua) is the way to the Father
6 God (Elohim) is sovereign
7 Jesus (Yeshua) is the saviour
8 We are to love God (Elohim) foremost, one another and others- (do unto others as you would have them do to you)
9 God (Elohim) wants obedience from His followers
10 Sin displeases God (Elohim)
11 God (Elohim) wants us to repent, turn away from sin and live a holy life.
12 . God (Elohim) is just
13 We are to live by faith
14. God (Elohim) wants a relationship with us
15 God (Elohim) is love
16 Love is the supreme virtue
17 God (Elohim) wants us to know His will
18 God (Elohim) will guide us, if we will let Him
19 We should obey the 10 commandments
20. Jesus (Yeshua) taught and lived the truth
21 Jesus (Yeshua) is Lord, has always been Lord and will always be Lord.
22 Jesus (Yeshua) is the resurrection and the life
23 Jesus (Yeshua) is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world
24 Jesus (Yeshua) is the Christ
25 Jesus (Yeshua) is the light of the world
26 Christians (believers) should exhibit the fruits of the Spirit
27 God (Elohim) created everything seen and unseen
28 God (Elohim) wants us to seek His will and follow it
29 Jesus Christ (Yeshua Messiach) is the Word of God
30. Sin separates us from God (Elohim)
31-Jesus (Yeshua) is the Alpha and Omega

 

[Pneuma3]

Like I said before Catherine, you don't understand the purpose of the list to begin with. It's to list those spiritual truths that UNITE us and that ALL believers agree on....it LEAVES OUT those things that cause division because of personal interpretation and denominationalism. I think eveyone knows that the list isn't all encompassing of Christian belief for ANY one group of believers...including yours. If you don't like what I'm doing here.....why don't you start your own thread with a list of those things that only YOUR particular brand of Christianity agree on and get your OWN consensus that you feel would be "meaningful".

brother it seems that even a list that everyone can agree to has become a division itself. Go figure.

 

[Henaynei]

brother it seems that even a list that everyone can agree to has become a division itself. Go figure.

and thus the crux of why CF has "criteria" and why folks are always chaffing and gnawing against them..... to have a group there must be some limits on identification - we here have compiled a list of 31 so far and even yet there are those who have chaffed - in the end it is up to the guy in whose backyard the fort is built to define who is and is not eligible to become a member of the club nothing wrong with that either 'cuz if you disagree you can always build a fort in YOUR back yard and set your own rules

This thread is an interesting exercise, in a sociological study sort of way, but in the end will change nothing.

The staff of CF have tried numerous permutations, lists and definitions over the 3+ years CF has been an entity - and all that has ever really happened is that the voice of dissenters and dissatisfieds just shifts from one group to another.... a board such as this can not be, is not meant to be, neither should it be, a democratic exercise.

b'Shalom
Henaynei

 

[Pneuma3]

and thus the crux of why CF has "criteria" and why folks are always chaffing and gnawing against them..... to have a group there must be some limits on identification - we here have compiled a list of 31 so far and even yet there are those who have chaffed - in the end it is up to the guy in whose backyard the fort is built to define who is and is not eligible to become a member of the club nothing wrong with that either 'cuz if you disagree you can always build a fort in YOUR back yard and set your own rules

This thread is an interesting exercise, in a sociological study sort of way, but in the end will change nothing.

The staff of CF have tried numerous permutations, lists and definitions over the 3+ years CF has been an entity - and all that has ever really happened is that the voice of dissenters and dissatisfieds just shifts from one group to another.... a board such as this can not be, is not meant to be, neither should it be, a democratic exercise.

b'Shalom
Henaynei

I think the list in itself was a good idea by Echo, but for whatever reason it has become a sorce of divison itself.

Your right it seems you can never please everyone.

Good try Echo, appreciate the effort, I wish it had of worked because then we could all have had comman ground which to work from.

God bless

 

[Henaynei]

Oh, don't get me wrong!! "Blessed are the peace makers!" - including Echo!

but being a peace maker does not mean there will ever be peace - and on this issue I doubt there will be until Messiah returns (looking up)

 

[Pneuma3]

Oh, don't get me wrong!! "Blessed are the peace makers!" - including Echo!

but being a peace maker does not mean there will ever be peace - and on this issue I doubt there will be until Messiah returns (looking up)

were you were comming from Hena, and I agree with you. But it would have been nice to have the comman ground to work from.

But I guess christians do have one thing in comman that being Jesus Christ even though we my have a different understanding of what he is doing , has done, and will do all christians still have Him as common ground to work from. Thank goodness

 

[EchoPneuma]

P3 and Henaynei .....don't throw out the baby with the bath water. Just because Catherine doesn't understand exactly what I'm trying to do, doesn't mean it's not accomplishing what I want it to accomplish.

She had not said that any of those things on the list are UNTRUE....she just wants to reword them or add something else to them.....meaning the things already there are still agreed upon as TRUE as they stand.

I am still hopeful that more believers will voice their agreement or disagreement with the list and will say if they think that anything there is UNTRUE.

TRue, you can't please everybody with specific wording or broadness of the truths expressed....but we can have a list that everyone agrees that the things stated are TRUE so far as they go.

Those 31 things, so far, seem to be universal truths among ALL believers....although I do wish a JW or two would comment and a few more "unorthodox" believers.

 

[watcher215]

Isn't truth like a sword that divides?

Isn't Christ a divider of men?

Mat 10:34 "Don't think that I came to send peace on the earth. I didn't come to send peace, but a sword.

 

[EchoPneuma]

Isn't truth like a sword that divides?

Isn't Christ a divider of men?

Mat 10:34 "Don't think that I came to send peace on the earth. I didn't come to send peace, but a sword.

Then why did He pray for all of us to be "one" as He and the Father are "one" and for us to be unified?

I am talking about what unifies all BELIEVERS....those who claim the name of Christ and believe in Him as the saviour. This is not talking about dividing believer from unbeliever.

Do you have any comments on the list? Do you believe all those things listed are true....or do you believe some of them are untrue?

 

[EchoPneuma]

The current list at this point: (Subject to change as the thread continues)

1There is a life beyond this physical existence.
2 God (Elohim) created mankind as male and female
3 Mankind was created for a purpose.
4 God (Elohim) has a special attachment to his children. [who these children are would certianly be a point of contention]
5 Jesus (Yeshua) is the way to the Father
6 God (Elohim) is sovereign
7 Jesus (Yeshua) is the saviour
8 We are to love God (Elohim) foremost, one another and others- (do unto others as you would have them do to you)
9 God (Elohim) wants obedience from His followers
10 Sin displeases God (Elohim)
11 God (Elohim) wants us to repent, turn away from sin and live a holy life.
12 . God (Elohim) is just
13 We are to live by faith
14. God (Elohim) wants a relationship with us
15 God (Elohim) is love
16 Love is the supreme virtue
17 God (Elohim) wants us to know His will
18 God (Elohim) will guide us, if we will let Him
19 We should obey the 10 commandments
20. Jesus (Yeshua) taught and lived the truth
21 Jesus (Yeshua) is Lord, has always been Lord and will always be Lord.
22 Jesus (Yeshua) is the resurrection and the life
23 Jesus (Yeshua) is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world
24 Jesus (Yeshua) is the Christ
25 Jesus (Yeshua) is the light of the world
26 Christians (believers) should exhibit the fruits of the Spirit
27 God (Elohim) created everything seen and unseen
28 God (Elohim) wants us to seek His will and follow it
29 Jesus Christ (Yeshua Messiach) is the Word of God
30. Sin separates us from God (Elohim)
31-Jesus (Yeshua) is the Alpha and Omega

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Isn't truth like a sword that divides?

Isn't Christ a divider of men?

Mat 10:34 "Don't think that I came to send peace on the earth. I didn't come to send peace, but a sword.

Then why did He pray for all of us to be "one" as He and the Father are "one" and for us to be unified?

I am talking about what unifies all BELIEVERS....those who claim the name of Christ and believe in Him as the saviour. This is not talking about dividing believer from unbeliever.

Do you have any comments on the list? Do you believe all those things listed are true....or do you believe some of them are untrue?

Then why is christianity so Divided?
Symolically, it is the "Sword" that both divided the Jewish Christians from the Jews of the Law. Look at messianics for example who practice both. All of there were believers in the God of the OT.
But in either case, whether it merits being on the list or not, doesn't matter to me.

 

[EchoPneuma]

Then why is christianity so Divided?

It's so divided because the WRITTEN WORD and it's interpretation has taken precedence over the LIVING WORD and His prayer. Christians would rather divide over the understanding of the written word, than unify in obedience to the Living Word.

In a nutshell.....bibliolatry.

Symolically, it is the "Sword" that both divided the Jewish Christians from the Jews of the Law. Look at messianics for example who practice both. All of there were believers in the God of the OT.
But in either case, whether it merits being on the list or not, doesn't matter to me.

What do you want on the list? You didn't make yourself clear.

 

[EchoPneuma]

Bump.

Here is the list to date. Would some more people who call themselves believers in Jesus respond? I'm trying to compile a list of spiritual truths that ALL believers agree are true....those things that unify us. THe list changes as people agree and disagree with it...or add a statement to it. Even if you've looked at it before...look at it again and see if you STILL agree with all the things on it.

The current list at this point: (Subject to change as the thread continues)

1There is a life beyond this physical existence.
2 God (Elohim) created mankind as male and female
3 Mankind was created for a purpose.
4 God (Elohim) has a special attachment to his children. [who these children are would certianly be a point of contention]
5 Jesus (Yeshua) is the way to the Father
6 God (Elohim) is sovereign
7 Jesus (Yeshua) is the saviour
8 We are to love God (Elohim) foremost, one another and others- (do unto others as you would have them do to you)
9 God (Elohim) wants obedience from His followers
10 Sin displeases God (Elohim)
11 God (Elohim) wants us to repent, turn away from sin and live a holy life.
12 . God (Elohim) is just
13 We are to live by faith
14. God (Elohim) wants a relationship with us
15 God (Elohim) is love
16 Love is the supreme virtue
17 God (Elohim) wants us to know His will
18 God (Elohim) will guide us, if we will let Him
19 We should obey the 10 commandments
20. Jesus (Yeshua) taught and lived the truth
21 Jesus (Yeshua) is Lord, has always been Lord and will always be Lord.
22 Jesus (Yeshua) is the resurrection and the life
23 Jesus (Yeshua) is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world
24 Jesus (Yeshua) is the Christ
25 Jesus (Yeshua) is the light of the world
26 Christians (believers) should exhibit the fruits of the Spirit
27 God (Elohim) created everything seen and unseen
28 God (Elohim) wants us to seek His will and follow it
29 Jesus Christ (Yeshua Messiach) is the Word of God
30. Sin separates us from God (Elohim)
31-Jesus (Yeshua) is the Alpha and Omega
32 - Jesus will one day judge every person

 

[Havahope]

Bump.

Here is the list to date. Would some more people who call themselves believers in Jesus respond? I'm trying to compile a list of spiritual truths that ALL believers agree are true....those things that unify us. THe list changes as people agree and disagree with it...or add a statement to it. Even if you've looked at it before...look at it again and see if you STILL agree with all the things on it.

The current list at this point: (Subject to change as the thread continues)

1There is a life beyond this physical existence.
2 God (Elohim) created mankind as male and female
3 Mankind was created for a purpose.
4 God (Elohim) has a special attachment to his children. [who these children are would certianly be a point of contention]
5 Jesus (Yeshua) is the way to the Father
6 God (Elohim) is sovereign
7 Jesus (Yeshua) is the saviour
8 We are to love God (Elohim) foremost, one another and others- (do unto others as you would have them do to you)
9 God (Elohim) wants obedience from His followers
10 Sin displeases God (Elohim)
11 God (Elohim) wants us to repent, turn away from sin and live a holy life.
12 . God (Elohim) is just
13 We are to live by faith
14. God (Elohim) wants a relationship with us
15 God (Elohim) is love
16 Love is the supreme virtue
17 God (Elohim) wants us to know His will
18 God (Elohim) will guide us, if we will let Him
19 We should obey the 10 commandments
20. Jesus (Yeshua) taught and lived the truth
21 Jesus (Yeshua) is Lord, has always been Lord and will always be Lord.
22 Jesus (Yeshua) is the resurrection and the life
23 Jesus (Yeshua) is the lamb slain from the foundation of the world
24 Jesus (Yeshua) is the Christ
25 Jesus (Yeshua) is the light of the world
26 Christians (believers) should exhibit the fruits of the Spirit
27 God (Elohim) created everything seen and unseen
28 God (Elohim) wants us to seek His will and follow it
29 Jesus Christ (Yeshua Messiach) is the Word of God
30. Sin separates us from God (Elohim)
31-Jesus (Yeshua) is the Alpha and Omega
32 - Jesus will one day judge every person

I have to wonder about # 32, somewhat. I don't really believe that Jesus himself judges or will judge us. But rather I believe that we will all, (at one time or another) be judged by His standards, or that Jesus is the measuring stick, so to speak, by which we are measured or judged.
Acts 17: 31. "Because he [God] hath appointed a day, in the which he [God] will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead."