Atheists go to hell even if they are good!?

[razeontherock]

That has nothing to do with freewill. I suggest you look up the term in a dictionary.

I'd suggest that if you are going to discuss Christian concepts with Christians, that you toss your dictionary definitions out on their ear and learn what G-d means. Standing on myopic views won't increase understanding.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

I understand this completely. Somehow you neglect the fact that every believer has worked through your current side of the coin. You're still making a false dichotomy that rejection and unbelief are separate.

As I am using these terms, rejection implies that a proposition is true, and I know it to be true, but I choose to "reject" it. Unbelief is the position that I do not know that a propostion is true, nor do I find, after decades of consideration, sufficient reasons to accept the proposition. I am simply of the opinion that there is no good reason to believe. Much in the same way you might feel about the existence or claims of Thor. It doesn't take any anguish or emotion to not believe in Thor for you, I presume. This is eactly how I feel about all god/s and their claims. Does this help to clear things up, and look less like a false dichotomy to you?

 

[Doveaman]

We believe that it was only a small fraction of Jews that have remained loyal to God and His covenant all these years as the prophets foretold. Interesting how those ideas are similar.

That's because Judaism evolved into Christianity over two thousand years ago.

 

[razeontherock]

My analogy assumes the power to save all people, even if they don't want to be saved. Much in the way a child might be pulled from RR tracks kicking and screaming because they don't understand the dangers of a freight train travelling at 80mph. This should clear it up.

And what happens when you assume?

 

[b&wpac7]

That's because Judaism evolved into Christianity over two thousand years ago.

I wouldn't say evolved. It's Christianity is kind of like a younger brother to Judaism. Similar but unique.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

And what happens when you assume?

Do you care to address the point or just be cute?

 

[razeontherock]

I cannot understand how his version can be "more to the point".

This much is honest. You still fail to account for the fact that the point of G-d's forgiveness is reconciliation.

 

[razeontherock]

As I am using these terms, rejection implies that a proposition is true, and I know it to be true, but I choose to "reject" it. Unbelief is the position that I do not know that a propostion is true, nor do I find, after decades of consideration, sufficient reasons to accept the proposition. I am simply of the opinion that there is no good reason to believe. Much in the same way you might feel about the existence or claims of Thor. It doesn't take any anguish or emotion to not believe in Thor for you, I presume. This is eactly how I feel about all god/s and their claims. Does this help to clear things up, and look less like a false dichotomy to you?

Not at all. Re: the Gospel, which is what this conversation has been about, "rejecting" is exactly what you describe yourself doing.

 

[Mud Hole]

That's because Judaism evolved into Christianity over two thousand years ago.

There just aren't words for this one.

 

[razeontherock]

Do you care to address the point or just be cute?

I did address the point, and really didn't think it was very cute. IOW, your assumption was false. Really a redundant statement, eh?

 

[Doveaman]

Why would you not want to share heaven with everyone?

You are assuming Bin Ladin will want to share heaven with you.

 

[Doveaman]

I'm God. I don't need worship.

Then take a hike.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

I did address the point, and really didn't think it was very cute. IOW, your assumption was false. Really a redundant statement, eh?

Maybe you should read it again. You obviously understood nothing.

What do you not understand about being able to save your children and not doing it?

If you're trying to be a troll, let me know and I'll extract myself from your inanity.

 

[Freodin]

This much is honest. You still fail to account for the fact that the point of G-d's forgiveness is reconciliation.

Can there exist reconciliation in Hell?

 

[CaliforniaSun]

Then take a hike.

I am, Half Dome June 4th. Wanna' go?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

Well if you are going to let everyone into your heaven you might have to allow it since everyone, including war-mongers, will be saved in your heaven, including Bin Laden and Hitler, and Julius Caesar who said "I came, I saw, I conquered".

Unless you plan to force them into submission, taking away their freewill, and prove yourself not to be God by doing that.

We don't have freewill now. I wouldn't be taking anything away. And there's multiple solutions to how to handle people who were violent on Earth. I've given one in another post.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

This is the Orthodox concept of hell.

That doesn't make any sense to me at all. I'm allowing everyone to experience heaven. How is that hell?

 

[Freodin]

A good way to ensure they "behave" while keeping any "free will" they might have would be to ensure that the use this free will to make the choice to "behave".

Now that was easy, wasn't it?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

I'd suggest that if you are going to discuss Christian concepts with Christians, that you toss your dictionary definitions out on their ear and learn what G-d means. Standing on myopic views won't increase understanding.

Freewill isn't a Christian concept. It's a philosophical one. Now, you can redefine words to your hearts content, but don't expect to be able to talk intelligently with anyone else.

 

[Rajni]

So you're saved whether you like it or not? G-d drags you kicking and screaming into His Presence? Please illustrate how this is loving in any sense of the word.

First off, since I believe He's Omnipresent, we're already in His presence. I'm not kicking and screaming. Anyone else here kicking and screaming?

Secondly, salvation isn't the only whether-you-like-it-or-not deal He's got going on right now. For instance...

God made you a guy, whether you like it or not.
I was born on a Saturday, whether I like it or not.
Liz Taylor had violet colored eyes, whether she liked it or not.
We're Earthlings, whether we like it or not.
The list goes on. You get the idea.

If God is in the habit of making executive decisions in these other, less soteriologically-critical areas of life, I certainly won't begrudge Him the right to do so where it pertains to our eternal well-being.

Besides that, any parent worth his or her salt would definitely drag their kid, kicking and screaming or not, out of the street before the Mack truck hits him.