Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
So is the god that you guys worship as weak as that species of aliens that he can't help but be influenced by the thoughts of others?
Two possible responses:
if this is just mocking, (Psalm 1:1) Blessed [is] the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful."
2) On the off-chance that this was a serious question, then no. G-d is so Powerful that He can tell every thought, differentiate that from our actual intents, give us 100% freedom to do our worst, and still retain control, ultimately.
Honestly, I did not mean it to be mocking.
It is one of only two explanations that I can see for why God punishes thought crimes.
billions more followers if they actually had evidence of his existence.
or those who do not believe, but would if they had sufficient evidence also get into heaven.
This is an intriguing direction, those who do not believe but would if ...
Ok, I'll take you at your word. And I appreciate it
One purpose of the book of Psalms us to show us all that He does NOT. In Psalms you will see King David commit the most heinous of thought crimes. This is the man G-d described as being "after His own heart." Notice this is disturbing, and thought provoking. G-d acts as His "Wonderful Counsellor." My Sister's a top PhD in that field, but she's not that good
Thoughts turn into emotions, may or may not result in words, and eventually lead to action. The latter is what G-d Judges us on. Psalms is a great look into the interconnectedness of these various elements, and also into how G-d will interact on our behalf.
Do you not appoint yourself as His superior with these thoughts? And don't worry, if these are thought crimethis is the time to straighten things out. The Almighty is not above scrutiny!
This is an intriguing direction, those who do not believe but would if ...
I posit we are all given the chance to do what is right in His eyes. (Maybe not all chances are created equal, but still)
Then, wouldn't you agree that god knows exactly what it would take for each and every person on this planet to become a believer? And, if you do agree with that premise, then why doesn't he show us all what it would take?
Honestly, I did not mean it to be mocking. It is one of only two explanations that I can see for why God punishes thought crimes. Either because he is like the aforementioned aliens, or he is sadistic. If the the former is wrong and he can differentiate our thought from our intentions, then surely he knows he would literally have billions more followers if they actually had evidence of his existence.
So either he is sadistic, or those who do not believe, but would if they had sufficient evidence also get into heaven. (As I see it, not trying to put forth a false dichotomy)
Woden84
Maybe he doesn't draw that conclusion, even if those people think or say that. Suppose it's true, what would a good God do?
Why would they go to heaven?
But God himself admits that no matter what we do our actions are not enough.
believe in Jesus(a thought).
So even if someone tries their best to follow the morals of Jesus (from say the Jefferson Bible)
ultimately they will be judged on whether or not they thought Jesus was the son of God or not.
His superior? No. His equal? Yes
condemning people because they were not shown enough evidence is evil.
It would also explain why he doesn't indulge any more doubting Thomas's, because it is not needed.
I would hope a good god would do everything in his power to prevent people being tortured for all eternity. Including making sure people have enough evidence that he even exists, or (along the lines of the what if) strict belief in him not being necessary.
If my thought is that God does not exist(because of a lack of evidence), but my intentions are good and I would believe in him if I had sufficient evidence, then of course he would know this. So(again how I see it) you're left with two choices. God knows that I would believe in him if I had sufficient evidence (he also knows exactly what that evidence would be being omniscient). So he refuses to give me that evidence because either he is sadistic and wants me in hell, or it is not needed because he will let me into heaven anyway.
Is Jesus what brings salvation or is it the belief in Jesus that brings salvation?
He wants to see you express desire (via effort) to reach out for said evidence, and will blow your mind once you do.
And what, then, if we did reach out, and he didn't blow our minds?
True, but I take exception to your use of "admits." Our righteousness is like, a used menstrual cloth.
Important distinction! Belief takes place in the heart. This is not merely a semantic difference; rather, the modern usage of the word differs from Biblical intent.
C can be summarized as "earnestly contending for the Faith that was once delivered to the Saints."
Next, we see that confession via our mouth is also important. Neither of these can entirely bypass our thoughts, but neither are thoughts significant enough to even get a mention.
Interesting statement made by that piece of work, isn't it? [/derail]
You are falling into a sneaky little trap. Yes, many C's do too. No, that doesn't make it ok, or even any better. Any time Jesus' followers asked Him about such matters He was very stern with them, telling them to mind their own business and to follow Him, personally. You see the lesson, and the dilemma?
Again: "all Judgment is given unto the Son." Yes, C's are responsible to judge in the sense of discernment, just to make good decisions in our own lives; but never in the sense of condemnation. English is a dull tool, and often the Bible can be confusing like that.
Very dangerous statement to make! i take exception to churchianity when they teach satan wanted to be above G-d. He did not. He wanted to be "like the Most High." (I trust you see the problem with your statement)
The fact that you and I agree on this is not what makes it so. The Bible teaches we are judged based on what we did know, not on what we didn't. (Past tense intentional; it refers to post-mortem)
I'm not sure where you're going with this, but I think you may be seriously missing the point of that story. I started a thread that goes into this, "purple bunnies."
Not sure what you mean by "strict belief," or how that might differ from Biblical Faith. We are told the latter is necessary, in the sense of being accepted rather than rejected. Obviously it does not apply to those who have never been exposed.
And our hopes that oppose His eternal will come to no avail.
I do see where you're going with this. Do you see that you are thinking you can paint G-d into a corner? We simply don't have that power, and if I could point out a third option it would demonstrate this.
There are probably limitless options you haven't accounted for here, but just one is He wants to see you express desire (via effort) to reach out for said evidence, and will blow your mind once you do.
Again, what is belief? Demonstrated here: "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. John 3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God."
It seems like semantics to me. If you're referring to heart as basically your emotions and feelings instead of a muscular pump, then those take place in the same organ as your thoughts.
I beg to differ. Unless you're sleep-talking or have some medical condition your speech is a direct result of your thoughts.
I have met very few Christians that believe people can get to heaven if they don't believe Jesus is God
When Satan said that, I assumed it to mean he wanted to be like him in authority and power. I am merely echoing what the bible says.
Hence the whole problem. I do not know if there is a God. Most Christians will readily say that alone will put me in hell.
When someone today doubts... *cricket chirps*
This is all following that what if I started. If someone doesn't believe because of a lack of evidence, but would believe if they had enough evidence, what if that was good enough for God to let that person into heaven. That's what I meant by that.
I'm not trying to, after all I don't even know if there is a God to be painted into a corner. This is all merely conjecture.
But many, many, many people have done just that and come back empty handed. The usual retort from Christians is that they didn't do it the correct way, or they didn't try hard enough. It does not seem to be a good option with it track record of failure.
Well what belief definitely is not, is Jesus. So many Christians say that salvation comes from Jesus, but then turn right around and say that the salvation comes from the belief in Jesus.
While this is an interesting scenario, let's keep my statement in context, that it is just one of many possible options Woden failed to account for.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?