Atheist here (Ask me anything)

[Skeptic90]

Also it is not logical to say that we are the image of our creator. What about everything else? Does he look like a tree? A rock? Along with everything else in this universe.[/QOUTE]

Well, the bible says that only humans were made in his image, so everything else is part of his creative imagination i guess


as for aliens, if there are any, i'd assume they would be put in the same position as humans and probably would look like us too

and, of course, none of this will be logical

Well we will have to wait and see for aliens. My being is that we are intelligent creators, we have the drive to think of ourselves as special. Thinking of ourselves as average is to think of ourselves as almost nothing. That is a fear which religion perfectly 'fulfills".

 

[ephraimanesti]

Absolutely.
.
But there's no design necessarily inherent in the universe. I fully understand the temptation to project the idea of "design" onto it. But thats a human trait. I think apparent "design" says more about us than about the universe.
.

MY BROTHER,

"It is a "human trait" because human beings are rational creatures. It is patently IRrational to consider something as intricate and glorious as an accident by so-called mindless natural forces.

Seeing the design and seeking the Creator does indeed "say more about us than about the universe," it says we are doing exactly what our Creator designed us to do--SEEK HIM OUT IN THANKSGIVING, ADMIRATION, AND LOVE.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[Skeptic90]

Well, my brother, i am a strong believer in Occam's Razor, as explained by Isaac Newton:



So

Which is simpler, "So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."(Genesis 1:27)

or

All the varied, imprecise, inelegant, involved, convoluted, and unprovable theories from Darwin on which end up explaining nothing beyond "by ways and means we don't understand at this point in time."

The further you get from the reality of God's existence, the further you have to dig to make a hole deep enough to bury all the "theories" which you have to invent in order to explain His non-existence and the intricacy of a universe -- in all its complexity, wonder, and beauty -- that was "somehow or other" accidentally formed for no reason or purpose and according to no plan. Tough row to hoe, that!

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

I actually believe adding a deity in the equation complicates things even more than how they are. Just look at my signature.

How hard is it to understand that nature takes its course and things are how they are. Whats wrong in truly figuring out how it happened, instead of taking some creation story from a given religion.

 

[lordworshipper]

MY BROTHER,

Nothing of beauty and meaning happens by accident--NOTHING!

I can just say, I made a mess the other day, and all on accident, and it was so beautiful. I can't tell which was worse, my laziness or love for the way the paint on the floor looked that made me not want to scrub it off. Accidents can be ugly, but also very beautiful.

So when one encounters a beautiful garden which brings one pleasure and joy, is it not natural for one to desire to meet the Gardener, and to thank Him for His wondrous gift?

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

What if that garden just happened to have arisen from someone forgetting to mow the lawn, and you approach them, and complement them on their garden, and they think its an insult? As they haven't mowed their lawn in a year? Gardens can grow on their own.

We are not special, we are not more than the rest of nature. We think we are because of the same reason that what you believe is correct and better.

Actually, with or without a creator, we are special. Want to know why? I will sum it up in what Sagan said, "we are a way for the universe to know itself", then compare that to the fact that its possible that most civilizations out there may or may not come as far as we. Maybe they go the way many magnificent life forms before us have gone. Some of which paved the road for us to come along.

Also it is not logical to say that we are the image of our creator. What about everything else? Does he look like a tree? A rock? Along with everything else in this universe.

Why not? If he is able to create life (we can do so, though we aren't yet there technologically speaking, its within our ability to do), and be the master of destiny as we can be, then we are indeed in his image if he did in fact create us. At least from an angle of perspective. However, maybe he is in the image of an animal, a tree, or a rock instead. I don't know what form God takes. All I know, is that I don't know, I just guess. And if you are an atheist, you are just guessing too. You are just taking a more rational guess at the answer.

Also if there are other beings in other planets, then who does he actually embody the image of. Let me guess an "universal image" you say. Well that is not a bit logical. Its pleasing to hear, but not logical.

Universals exist until you get to the universe, then there are no more. Or wait a minute, we're already here. there are no universals.

We are all evolved animals. It doesn't change one bit who we are if we are evoled, it actually makes more sense.

Indeed. I do agree with you here.

It makes no difference if we evolved from the much by the deep sea trenches, or were created on the sixth day, all that matters is that we got here. And we are here. That makes all the difference.

Which is simpler, "So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."(Genesis 1:27)

or

All the varied, imprecise, inelegant, involved, convoluted, and unprovable theories from Darwin on which end up explaining nothing beyond "by ways and means we don't understand at this point in time."

It is good you support Occam's Razor, but I think you missed what it meant when it was saying "simpler". What it meant is that you have no unanswered questions, you have no unnecessary bits in the theory, and that it actually explains the said phenomenon.

The further you get from the reality of God's existence, the further you have to dig to make a hole deep enough to bury all the "theories" which you have to invent in order to explain His non-existence and the intricacy of a universe -- in all its complexity, wonder, and beauty -- that was "somehow or other" accidentally formed for no reason or purpose and according to no plan. Tough row to hoe, that!

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

Yet they are able to come up with a very simple explaination for how the universe came into being.

Which is simpler:
Which is simpler, "So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them."(Genesis 1:27)

Or

The Universe inflated into being.

MY BROTHER,

"It is a "human trait" because human beings are rational creatures. It is patently IRrational to consider something as intricate and glorious as an accident by so-called mindless natural forces.

We are actually, by nature, born with a balance of irrational and rational minds, and not just rational. I don't see how its irrational to see the natural forces as mindless because they are as intricate and glorious as they are.

Seeing the design and seeking the Creator does indeed "say more about us than about the universe," it says we are doing exactly what our Creator designed us to do--SEEK HIM OUT IN THANKSGIVING, ADMIRATION, AND LOVE.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

We can't actually know our creator's intentions, we can't know exactly what he wants for us. All we can know is that if we aren't just crazy and having a mass dillusion, is that he created us for some reason, whether it be for aesthetic or other reasons.

 

[Erfan777]

I actually believe adding a deity in the equation complicates things even more than how they are. Just look at my signature.

How hard is it to understand that nature takes its course and things are how they are. Whats wrong in truly figuring out how it happened, instead of taking some creation story from a given religion.

I don't know what you mean by adding a deity in the equation complicates things...how does it complicates things and what equations...? I see wot your signature says but how did the universe come to existance, if you tell me about the big bang issue then as every reaction needs an activation energy, where did that activation energy come from the the whole big bang to start? If the universe is expanding then it is expanding where? it is proven that universe is no infinite, then what is there beyond the border of the universe?

Why is the earth the only hospitable place to live in? (don't tell me maybe there are life beyond our galaxy or something cause thats just vague assumption which has no evidence in it wotsoever.)

Why are we the humans have been able to developed and create this great civilization of ours in this world so far and animals have remained to be animals?

You telling me that something will create automatically by itself without a creator is more nonsence to me. Its like telling me an artificial intelligent robot came into existence all by itself without anyone engineering it.

 

[Skeptic90]

I don't know what you mean by adding a deity in the equation complicates things...how does it complicates things and what equations...? I see wot your signature says but how did the universe come to existance, if you tell me about the big bang issue then as every reaction needs an activation energy, where did that activation energy come from the the whole big bang to start? If the universe is expanding then it is expanding where? it is proven that universe is no infinite, then what is there beyond the border of the universe?

Why is the earth the only hospitable place to live in? (don't tell me maybe there are life beyond our galaxy or something cause thats just vague assumption which has no evidence in it wotsoever.)

Why are we the humans have been able to developed and create this great civilization of ours in this world so far and animals have remained to be animals?

You telling me that something will create automatically by itself without a creator is more nonsence to me. Its like telling me an artificial intelligent robot came into existence all by itself without anyone engineering it.

Well no actual equation, but just saying in general, it complicates things from what they are, to actually having another entity into it.

Well the signiture simply says that universe can always be. There could have no initiation energy, the universe could have been like god. Because saying that god did, then who created god?

Where is the universe expanding to, well... we don't know.

Well earth position is not 100%, we are in scientists call 'the goldilock zone". We could be a few hundred miles and in or out, and still able to exist. It is not perfect, just good enough for our specific kind to survive, we could have been in a colder or warmer planet, and our bodies would have been 'designed' for that environment.

There are sure limits to natural design, like the robot you mentioned, there is no purpose or way that it could have been naturally designed to get such thing, the only thing that it could come close to is like a organic robot made from silicone instead of carbon material. You will have to reinvent the laws of nature in order to get such thing .For all things that are debatable like whats beyond our universe or what was the start, my best guess is as good as yours, so I can safely say I don't know.

 

[b&wpac4]

Yes, many times in the Gospels and in Revelations referred to Himself as both "the Messenger" and "the Message."

Because it's written, I must accept it? I'm sorry, I don't believe the New Testament is accurate.

 

[Skeptic90]

Actually, with or without a creator, we are special. Want to know why? I will sum it up in what Sagan said, "we are a way for the universe to know itself", then compare that to the fact that its possible that most civilizations out there may or may not come as far as we. Maybe they go the way many magnificent life forms before us have gone. Some of which paved the road for us to come along.

Also it is not logical to say that we are the image of our creator. What about everything else? Does he look like a tree? A rock? Along with everything else in this universe.
​

Why not? If he is able to create life (we can do so, though we aren't yet there technologically speaking, its within our ability to do), and be the master of destiny as we can be, then we are indeed in his image if he did in fact create us. At least from an angle of perspective. However, maybe he is in the image of an animal, a tree, or a rock instead. I don't know what form God takes. All I know, is that I don't know, I just guess. And if you are an atheist, you are just guessing too. You are just taking a more rational guess at the answer.

I agree as well with you in that sense that we are special. We are not special materialistically, but we are special through our accomplishments. So in a sense we are special.

And you are completely correct in the second part, I just don't know, because from the lack of any evidence, until I get a shred of evidence, anything that points me somewhere, then I will make an educated guess rather than a random guess.

You sound like a very rational and logical person. What are your reasons for believing or holding faith?

 

[nicknack28]

What do you expect, my brother, i'm from Seattle?--you know, the caffeine and all.

Occasionally, however, i am able--with God's help and infinite patience with me--to slip into a meaningful mode when a meaningful topic is discussed. Stay tuned!

Or better still, set an example.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

I haven't read the rest of the thread yet that has accumulated after this post, though I plan to. I just thought this was funny 'cause I'm from Seattle too. Just moved to a new location actually!

Thanks for the decent response though. Love thy neighbor, eh? Literally!

 

[ephraimanesti]

Because it's written, I must accept it? I'm sorry, I don't believe the New Testament is accurate.

You realize, of course, that your belief or disbelief have no bearing on the reality of Who Jesus is and how He fits into what His Father is about.

You can believe and reap the benefits or you can disbelieve and pay the price--the prize is yours to open or forfeit. The reality stays the same in either case.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[ephraimanesti]

How hard is it to understand that nature takes its course and things are how they are.

MY BROTHER,

i guess i just don't have enough faith to accept atheism as being in the least competent to explain the reality i observe around me. Believing that something can come out of nothing for no reason or purpose is far beyond what my mustard-seed faith can deal with. Guess i'll have to stick with "In the beginning God created heaven and earth." (Genesis 1:1)

Whats wrong in truly figuring out how it happened, instead of taking some creation story from a given religion.

The "wrongness" lies in the fact that if you take a Creator God out of the creation equation, there is no provable or even plausible explanation for the Universe's ordered existence. Atheists are thus stuck with the problem of coming up with--inventing, if you will--a God-like natural force that can do the things God has done without actually being God. Alas--tis an impossible task--and certainly one that Occam would not approve.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[ephraimanesti]

So nothing comes in from accident, it was simply 'naturally designed' to be how it is.

Now what evidence do you have in the contrary?

Makes sense? Or do you have any other questions?

MY BROTHER,

Well, yes i do have evidence to the contrary--God states throughout the Old and New Testaments that He, and He alone is responsible for creating all that exists.

In my dealings with God over the years of our relationship, He has never lied to me, mislead me, or let me down in any way. i therefore choose to believe His Word concerning His work and, knowing Him as i do, i see His fingerprints on everything that exists. i'm with David in this regard:

"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands.

"Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge.

"The is no speech or language where their voice is not heard.

"Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world." (Psalm 19:1-4)

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[Janser]

Well, yes i do have evidence to the contrary--God states throughout the Old and New Testaments that He, and He alone is responsible for creating all that exists.

You don't have evidence you just believe that you do.

In my dealings with God over the years of our relationship, He has never lied to me, mislead me, or let me down in any way. i therefore choose to believe His Word concerning His work and, knowing Him as i do, i see His fingerprints on everything that exists. i'm with David in this regard:

Of course your God has never let you down how could he? your God is only in your head so you are hardly likely to let yourself down are you?

 

[Skeptic90]

MY BROTHER,

i guess i just don't have enough faith to accept atheism as being in the least competent to explain the reality i observe around me. Believing that something can come out of nothing for no reason or purpose is far beyond what my mustard-seed faith can deal with. Guess i'll have to stick with "In the beginning God created heaven and earth." (Genesis 1:1)

We do not believe something came from nothing. We do not believe things happen in accident. We don't believe that things pop into existence. Thats just a bunch of misunderstandings.

What do think about the start, and things we have nearly no evidence for, 'I don't know'. That is our stance, uncertainty. We seek evidence and the more probable truth. Discovery.

Just because something is hard to comprehend, or you have weak knowledge of the other-sides opinions, it doesn't mean its incorrect. All I am asking, like I said before is just to investigate and read a simple science book at least, thats it, then make your arguments from that.

I am not asking you to disbelieve. Atheism is not a religion, we are all logical individuals. All I am asking is to read a science book, do some research, actually go in a search of knowledge out in the real world, instead of reading the same book over and over again and believing that a deity talks to you and gives you the truth. At least look at outside and evaluate it. That's all I am asking.

The "wrongness" lies in the fact that if you take a Creator God out of the creation equation, there is no provable or even plausible explanation for the Universe's ordered existence. Atheists are thus stuck with the problem of coming up with--inventing, if you will--a God-like natural force that can do the things God has done without actually being God. Alas--tis an impossible task--and certainly one that Occam would not approve.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

I agree we do not have an explanation that we could say this is how it happened. We don't know. But we also do not believe some fairy tales that some random people made up 6,000 years ago. Have you even read basic biology? or at least geology?

No there is no force, simply nature taking its course. We are not trying to make a god, we are simply in search for the truth. If it ends up that the evidence points that there is a god or gods, so be it. As long it is the truth.

There is no supernatural force, just simple deductions. Like what do you get when you put 2 hungry dogs with one piece of meat. The chances are they will fight for it and their survival. That is nature. There is nothing that intelligently designs this. What do you get when you breed a blonde haired girl with a brown haired guy, 3 out of 4 babies will come out browned hair because the brown hair gene is dominant. Simple deductions.

Please do us all a favor and go to the library and read some science books, and come back and then say why are we wrong. Facts, evidence, not assumptions. Even think of it this way if you may. Reading science is discovering how god created the universe, at least think of it that way.

 

[Skeptic90]

MY BROTHER,

Well, yes i do have evidence to the contrary--God states throughout the Old and New Testaments that He, and He alone is responsible for creating all that exists.

In my dealings with God over the years of our relationship, He has never lied to me, mislead me, or let me down in any way. i therefore choose to believe His Word concerning His work and, knowing Him as i do, i see His fingerprints on everything that exists. i'm with David in this regard:

"The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands.

"Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge.

"The is no speech or language where their voice is not heard.

"Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world." (Psalm 19:1-4)

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

So what makes the next religions creation story false? Until you discover why you don't accept their versions, you will understand why we don't accept yours. Just take a moment and research other religions ideologies. Also what makes the bible correct over other religious texts from around the world.

 

[b&wpac4]

You realize, of course, that your belief or disbelief have no bearing on the reality of Who Jesus is and how He fits into what His Father is about.

You realize, of course, that YOUR belief has no bearing on what Jesus failed to accomplish, the fact that the concept of The Messiah had to be changed to fit his life, and there's nothing in the Hebrew scriptures that suggests mankind needed a savior in the way Christians make Jesus.

With that, I will not discuss this with you anymore in this thread. It's about atheists and I will not intrude anymore. If you feel compelled to continue this line of thought, I invite you to open a thread.

 

[ephraimanesti]

You don't have evidence you just believe that you do.

MY DEAR SISTER,

The Lord has been working in my life for some years now, and what i have personally experienced of His wondrous Love leaves not the slightest room for doubt regarding either His existence or His awe-inspiring Love for each one of us. It is sad that you have made a decision against accepting this Love, but a pure gift can never be forced. (Sometimes is occurs to me that perhaps freewill can be both a blessing and a curse at the same time. But, of course, it depends upon how the individual chooses to use it--to move towards the Light or away from it.)

Of course your God has never let you down how could he? your God is only in your head so you are hardly likely to let yourself down are you?

"Letting myself down" has been the major occupation of my life for about 2/3s of its duration. Believe me, i know well the difference.

ABBA'S FOOL,
ephraim

 

[brinny]

know any good dentists?

 

[Eudaimonist]

know any good dentists?

Yes, I liked my dentist in Sundsvall, but now that I've moved to Linköping, I'm going to have to find a new one.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[brinny]

Yes, I liked my dentist in Sundsvall, but now that I've moved to Linköping, I'm going to have to find a new one.


eudaimonia,

Mark

LOL know any good ones in the US?

they seem to be rare here