Atheism

[Eudaimonist]

If what you are asking if how i make better choices, the answer is really i way the options.

In case you are curious, the proper phrase is "weigh the options" (as if weighing them on a scale in order to compare their weights).

For a lot of people, one is either one whom conforms to society, or completely goes against or does not consider what society thinks.

Sure, conformists for conformism's sake, and non-conformists for non-comformism's sake. I agree that these aren't the only alternatives.

I input what society thinks, depending on why they believe. For instance, the society i live around, for the most part, frowns on gay rights. But there really is no logical reason why so instead of rebelling against it i will simply find a reason why it is wrong, with the thought that there is no real definition of wrong other than the lack of being right.

Okay, so it is clear that you are a philosophical person, in other words, someone who does not merely hold positions, but seeks to understand what the justification is for those positions. You consider issues not out of a desire to conform or to rebell, but to discover which positions are right and which are wrong.

So, what is it that leads you to conclude that a position is right or wrong? I'm talking about ethics now, but I suppose we can include a political position as an example.

Do you regard gay rights as an ethically right thing to support? If so, why? What is it about gay rights that makes it something an ethical person might decide to support?


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[atheist_jc]

In case you are curious, the proper phrase is "weigh the options" (as if weighing them on a scale in order to compare their weights).



Sure, conformists for conformism's sake, and non-conformists for non-comformism's sake. I agree that these aren't the only alternatives.



Okay, so it is clear that you are a philosophical person, in other words, someone who does not merely hold positions, but seeks to understand what the justification is for those positions. You consider issues not out of a desire to conform or to rebell, but to discover which positions are right and which are wrong.

So, what is it that leads you to conclude that a position is right or wrong? I'm talking about ethics now, but I suppose we can include a political position as an example.

Do you regard gay rights as an ethically right thing to support? If so, why? What is it about gay rights that makes it something an ethical person might decide to support?


eudaimonia,

Mark

Thank you for pointing my mistakes out i will try to do better

Thank you for thinking of me as a philosophical person that means a lot to me

Well funny you should say that about gay rights:
1. My first roommate in college is gay
2. My roommate right now is gay and she is my best friend in college
3. I am doing a 5 page single spaced paper on gay rights and their change in tactics to pass gay marriage as constitutional

So if you feel i might have a strong bias you may ask a different question.

So on the gay right support, i can the best way i can say it is if there is a thought in ones brain, such as gays deserve rights, then the question is could this be unethical, or lacking ethical views. So is being gay or gays having rights have any unethical standing. Like...

Some people against gays/gay rights say it goes against nature and that they can not continue life, but is this true or even wrong. Well if you believe in natural selection, then could have nature chosen them to be interested in their own sex then the other, choosing to naturally not to continue life which does happen. But now and days man as defied nature such as artificial insemination and abortion. And a gay guy still has sperm and a lesbian still has eggs, so they still have the potential to pass on life, but they are interested in people that do not have what they need to create a child, but they are still able to.

After all that is said and done, the real question is who is it hurting? Why and how is it hurting them?

If you ask me, a gay person is no less of a person than me or you. To me gay rights will be the next black rights and women's rights. Not saying one is of greater importance than the other but it is just and issue that due to the fact that the only reason that people think gay rights or being gay is wrong is mainly religion.

So even though religion frowns upon it, if they have reasoning why it is wrong, along with good facts or proof or something to support their argument, it is understandable, but if they it is because someone or something does not like that and gay people wont get in to heaven, then that is great to the person that believes that, but just cause one believes that, then they should live by it. Forcing a way of life on to others is unethical, because it who is it to say which is the best way of life, other than our own dogmatic belief that everything an individual does is right.

I hope this answered your question and i am sorry that i rambled on, but if i missed anything or said something you do not agree with then tell me, i am not one of those people that says they will never change their mind at all, that is a real close minded thing to say.

 

[Eudaimonist]

After all that is said and done, the real question is who is it hurting? Why and how is it hurting them?

I was looking for "the real question" of ethics in your mind, so this answers my question.

if i missed anything or said something you do not agree with then tell me, i am not one of those people that says they will never change their mind at all, that is a real close minded thing to say.

I did not ask you questions in order to agree or disagree. I sought to discover how you judge ethical issues, and also to prod you gently into clarifying for yourself what the really deep questions of ethics are. You've done well.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[RedRaven]

I consider myself a true atheist because i did not become an atheist because my parents were nor because people i am around me told me to be one and that it is the right answer. I experienced life, studied, and gave every religion an equal chance. So i say a true atheist because it was my own choice and i do not listen to every person i hear because they have an opinion. I ask question on why they think. I understand euphemisms almost everywhere i go, but not saying i am perfect at it.

I bolded the part I'm asking about. There are an amazing number of different paths or religions out there, can you be more specific about which ones you explored?

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
A Christian actually does choose. Thinking is involved, of course, but the choosing is not based on that solely. It is based on something that can, to the naked light of logic, appear illogical and foolish. It is something called faith that seals our belief and emblazons it into the inner recesses of our hearts, minds, and souls. Belief in this God and our love for this God we believe in becomes our passion. It's like choosing a road and walking that road because it's the reason for our existence. It's in sync with the lyrics to this song:

And to me and most atheist that is the wrong way to do that. If one day one can be a christian than in an any amount of time one "chooses" to change their beliefs than they are doing it wrong. A choice is something you decide on, when it comes to belief what is right and wrong, that can not be a choice that is belief.

Faith is a word i actually have a problem with. For two reasons:
1. Euphemism. one can call it faith and mistaken it with blind faith. When one believes in something they have never seen or any proof of, would be classified as blind faith

2. "Faith is believing something you know ain't true." - Mark Twain

"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." - Benjamin Franklin
or the way i would say it "Faith is a lazy mans way to think he has the answer"

Your first sentence...the wrong way to do what? And referring to choice...it is chosen. As in having chosen, made a choice, that one embraces the rest of one's life. I love this God i believe in. I do not choose Him like i'm choosing from a smorgasbord and them move on to something else that catches my attention.

There is no need to be insulting in your responses.

 

[atheist_jc]

I was looking for "the real question" of ethics in your mind, so this answers my question.



I did not ask you questions in order to agree or disagree. I sought to discover how you judge ethical issues, and also to prod you gently into clarifying for yourself what the really deep questions of ethics are. You've done well.


eudaimonia,

Mark

Why thank you sir, in response to the questions you have ask, i feel that we can relate because we think almost alike, logically and i have had a joy talking to you

 

[atheist_jc]

I bolded the part I'm asking about. There are an amazing number of different paths or religions out there, can you be more specific about which ones you explored?

Well you are right, it might be borderline impossible to experience every religion. So for the most part, it was jewish, christian, islamic, buddhism, hinduism, and deism. These are the main ones i look in to. There were others but i can not remember them all but they did not last long.

 

[atheist_jc]

Your first sentence...the wrong way to do what? And referring to choice...it is chosen. As in having chosen, made a choice, that one embraces the rest of one's life. I love this God i believe in. I do not choose Him like i'm choosing from a smorgasbord and them move on to something else that catches my attention.

There is no need to be insulting in your responses.

I am sorry you feel like i am insulting you, but i am not meaning to i promise and for that i apologize.

Now if you chose your specific religion i feel that you are not getting what i am trying to say, because you said you do not choose Him from a smorgasbord. I you did not chose, there is nothing wrong.

I can understand that you did not chose to believe in a higher power. No problem, because you feel in your heart that it is right, may it be or not. The same goes with what i believe. But if you are saying you chose Christianity is the right way, that is the problem. It should not be a choice. I do not choose what to believe in, because if you choose your beliefs, one can change ones mind. It is not like picking choice A B C or D, a belief makes more sense and usually has a small chance of changing unless new evidence comes to mind. So if you chose, i feel that is wrong. If you feel in your heart, and given evidence or proof or some sort of research to come to a logical conclusion in ones head, there is not problem with that.

Now if you are a Christian, good for you. I have no problem with that. And once again sorry if it sounded as if i was insulting anyone that is not the kind of person i am. I will work harder in typing my responses.

 

[Booko]

But the world is infested with religion and that is what i love about it along with the psychology behind the human mind. How religions start, why we believe in what we believe, and so much more can go one from there.

Be careful, bubba. I had the same attitude when I was an atheist. I set out to read up on all religions with a view of figuring out why humans would be nuts enough to believe in them in such numbers througout history and...ended up religious.

It's been a hilarious life. If there is no God to have a sense of humour, then I guess the Universe has one at least.

2. what i say i believe in other aspect past atheism, every atheist are different in there own way

Very true.

i love answering your questions though so always feel free to ask

OK, I'll bite. Do you find any value in any religion whatsoever?

Were you raised with any particular religion? (I was raised Calvinist -- it didn't stick too well.)

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
Your first sentence...the wrong way to do what? And referring to choice...it is chosen. As in having chosen, made a choice, that one embraces the rest of one's life. I love this God i believe in. I do not choose Him like i'm choosing from a smorgasbord and them move on to something else that catches my attention.

There is no need to be insulting in your responses.

I am sorry you feel like i am insulting you, but i am not meaning to i promise and for that i apologize.

Now if you chose your specific religion i feel that you are not getting what i am trying to say, because you said you do not choose Him from a smorgasbord. I you did not chose, there is nothing wrong.

I can understand that you did not chose to believe in a higher power. No problem, because you feel in your heart that it is right, may it be or not. The same goes with what i believe. But if you are saying you chose Christianity is the right way, that is the problem. It should not be a choice. I do not choose what to believe in, because if you choose your beliefs, one can change ones mind. It is not like picking choice A B C or D, a belief makes more sense and usually has a small chance of changing unless new evidence comes to mind. So if you chose, i feel that is wrong. If you feel in your heart, and given evidence or proof or some sort of research to come to a logical conclusion in ones head, there is not problem with that.

Now if you are a Christian, good for you. I have no problem with that. And once again sorry if it sounded as if i was insulting anyone that is not the kind of person i am. I will work harder in typing my responses.

This is a Christian site, hence the name of it. You make a choice to consciously come to this site, become a member, and then you tell those who believe in the living God that:

we did not make a choice?
that we are wrong?

How much do you know about this God i speak of?

 

[atheist_jc]

Be careful, bubba. I had the same attitude when I was an atheist. I set out to read up on all religions with a view of figuring out why humans would be nuts enough to believe in them in such numbers througout history and...ended up religious.

It's been a hilarious life. If there is no God to have a sense of humour, then I guess the Universe has one at least.



Very true.



OK, I'll bite. Do you find any value in any religion whatsoever?

Were you raised with any particular religion? (I was raised Calvinist -- it didn't stick too well.)

i used to find value in religion, but it is kinda like telling your kid about santa claus. They will either grow up and realize the impossibility, or you will admit it to them that there is no santa. Either way they will know the truth so what is the point of lying. So there are religions that does do good for others which i admire, but there reasons why they are doing it is poor, in my view.

I was not raised any one religion, i was evangelical the catholic, then became more logical and started to think more independently, not saying that religious people are not logical.

 

[atheist_jc]

This is a Christian site, hence the name of it. You make a choice to consciously come to this site, become a member, and then you tell those who believe in the living God that:

we did not make a choice?
that we are wrong?

How much do you know about this God i speak of?

you are not understanding what i am saying. yes we made a choice to be members here. i made a choice about what college to go to. what to eat today. what to learn about. But when it comes to god there is not choice. if i put a rabbit on the table and we both voted on the sex of the rabbit. let say i thought it was a male you thought it was an female. Now with that said it does not change the sex of the rabbit. It is science, so if you choose to believe that there is a god yes you are doing it wrong, one needs to analyze the facts that are given to you.

and i am not saying everyone on this site is wrong, just the ones, along with ones that are not part of this site, are wrong for just choosing to believe it other than thinking on there own.

and i understand as an atheist on a christian website that i am bound by the rules of the ones who created this site. so i will probably never win a fight with you or many others on this site, so if your fighting with me on what i believe that is fine, but do not get mad when i disagree with what you and others believe. This was for informational use only about atheism. if you want to argue with me thats fine and i am happy i am worthy enough for you to argue with. But i know i will not win your mind, so i will not give up due to close mindedness or calling me stoopid or anything like that. The only thing that will shut me up is proof. If you are saying to me that there is a god one must prove it.

 

[DannyOcean]

hello all. I'm also an atheist and if you have any questions or would like to hear my 'atheist story' then I would be happy to help. I think atheist_jc means very well but can't always answer the questions in the necessary depth or clarity (hopefully no offense jc), maybe because he's young or not experienced in philosophy and theology.

Also, it makes me sad that this post is tagged with 'bigotry' along with 'atheism', 'atheist', and 'non-believer'. I don't believe there's been any bigotry.

 

[DannyOcean]

Also a quick misconception that seemed to pop up - atheism is not the denial of god, it is simply the lack of a belief in god. A 'strong atheist' or 'positive atheist' would actively deny that there is a god, while an 'agnostic atheist' or 'weak atheist' would simply have no particular belief in a god. The latter is often referred to as 'agnosticism', but that definition of agnosticism is in fact incorrect. One can be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Welcome, DannyOcean.

 

[durangodawood]

Welcome, DannyOcean.

Any relation to Billy Ocean?
.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
This is a Christian site, hence the name of it. You make a choice to consciously come to this site, become a member, and then you tell those who believe in the living God that:

we did not make a choice?
that we are wrong?

How much do you know about this God i speak of?

you are not understanding what i am saying. yes we made a choice to be members here. i made a choice about what college to go to. what to eat today. what to learn about. But when it comes to god there is not choice. if i put a rabbit on the table and we both voted on the sex of the rabbit. let say i thought it was a male you thought it was an female. Now with that said it does not change the sex of the rabbit. It is science, so if you choose to believe that there is a god yes you are doing it wrong, one needs to analyze the facts that are given to you.

and i am not saying everyone on this site is wrong, just the ones, along with ones that are not part of this site, are wrong for just choosing to believe it other than thinking on there own.

and i understand as an atheist on a christian website that i am bound by the rules of the ones who created this site. so i will probably never win a fight with you or many others on this site, so if your fighting with me on what i believe that is fine, but do not get mad when i disagree with what you and others believe. This was for informational use only about atheism. if you want to argue with me thats fine and i am happy i am worthy enough for you to argue with. But i know i will not win your mind, so i will not give up due to close mindedness or calling me stoopid or anything like that. The only thing that will shut me up is proof. If you are saying to me that there is a god one must prove it.

I did not come to this site to fight. What about you?

 

[brinny]

Also a quick misconception that seemed to pop up - atheism is not the denial of god, it is simply the lack of a belief in god. A 'strong atheist' or 'positive atheist' would actively deny that there is a god, while an 'agnostic atheist' or 'weak atheist' would simply have no particular belief in a god. The latter is often referred to as 'agnosticism', but that definition of agnosticism is in fact incorrect. One can be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist.

Thank you for your clarification. I understand better. I appreciate your civil post.

 

[DannyOcean]

Any relation to Billy Ocean?
.

No, I'm the Danny Ocean who robs casinos and such. I'm a liar and a thief, but I only lie about being a thief.

Also, me and Julia Roberts. Totally happening.

 

[brinny]

hello all. I'm also an atheist and if you have any questions or would like to hear my 'atheist story' then I would be happy to help. I think atheist_jc means very well but can't always answer the questions in the necessary depth or clarity (hopefully no offense jc), maybe because he's young or not experienced in philosophy and theology.

Also, it makes me sad that this post is tagged with 'bigotry' along with 'atheism', 'atheist', and 'non-believer'. I don't believe there's been any bigotry.

Thank you. I would like to hear your 'atheist story'. Thank you for the offer.