Atheism

[brinny]

No, I'm the Danny Ocean who robs casinos and such. I'm a liar and a thief, but I only lie about being a thief.

Also, me and Julia Roberts. Totally happening.

LOL

 

[DannyOcean]

Thank you for your clarification. I understand better. I appreciate your civil post.

no problem at all. No reason we can't all be friendly, right?

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
Thank you for your clarification. I understand better. I appreciate your civil post.

no problem at all. No reason we can't all be friendly, right?

I agree.

 

[Chesterton]

Also a quick misconception that seemed to pop up - atheism is not the denial of god, it is simply the lack of a belief in god. A 'strong atheist' or 'positive atheist' would actively deny that there is a god, while an 'agnostic atheist' or 'weak atheist' would simply have no particular belief in a god. The latter is often referred to as 'agnosticism', but that definition of agnosticism is in fact incorrect. One can be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist.

Oh that darn old misconception again. Don'tcha hate that always popping up?

 

[DannyOcean]

Since it was asked for, I can provide the brief story of how I became an atheist. I absolutely am not trying to debate atheism vs. theism or looking to convert. Hopefully this just helps spread a little bit of understanding.

I was raised as a Catholic in a very Catholic family. My dad became a deacon when I was around 11 and has the equivalent of a degree in theology. Very smart guy. Always went to mass, always talked about the importance of jesus, etc. I was very into it all throughout my teen years. I even went on a bunch of teen retreats and ending up leading several retreats. I was very much a fervent teen Catholic. Looking back, I'm sure that my influence, witnessing, and enthusiasm for Catholic Christianity converted many teens.

When I went to college, I began to struggle with my faith. It began with small things, such as political stances all the christians around me seemed to be taking, and what I thought were ridiculous attacks on science. After that, all kinds of questions popped up. I began to question the philosophy of religion, and what I really 'knew'. The main problem for me was this: 'I've been raised Catholic and strongly believe in the Catholic god... but I also know that if I was born in Pakistan i would undoubtedly be a devout Muslim. How do I know which religion is real?'

I stopped going to church very often. I still wrestled with that one question of 'How can one determine which religion out of dozens (or hundreds) has the truth?' To me, there was no satisfactory answer. I gradually began to think of myself as a deist, who still believed in some sort of omniscient god but who didn't claim to know which form he took. I was firmly no longer 'religious' at that point. Gradually, belief in a god at all began to make less sense to me as well, and I simply dropped it. I consider myself an agnostic atheist, meaning that I don't deny the possibility of god outright but I also think it's pretty unlikely any gods exist.

That's pretty much it. I imagine it's fairly typical of the "lose your religion in college" story. I still know a good bit about the bible from my religious days, and still go to mass occassionally. I don't take communion, but it doesn't really bother me to go on special occassions like xmas, easter, etc.

 

[atheist_jc]

hello all. I'm also an atheist and if you have any questions or would like to hear my 'atheist story' then I would be happy to help. I think atheist_jc means very well but can't always answer the questions in the necessary depth or clarity (hopefully no offense jc), maybe because he's young or not experienced in philosophy and theology.

Also, it makes me sad that this post is tagged with 'bigotry' along with 'atheism', 'atheist', and 'non-believer'. I don't believe there's been any bigotry.

yes i understand and not really offended, okay may be a little but that is not the point.

yes i am young in comparison too others but i do not feel that it should take away from what i have to say, but thank you for willing to help

now i put those words because of what other people would type in i do not believe i am a bigot, but others that have questions might.

 

[atheist_jc]

Also a quick misconception that seemed to pop up - atheism is not the denial of god, it is simply the lack of a belief in god. A 'strong atheist' or 'positive atheist' would actively deny that there is a god, while an 'agnostic atheist' or 'weak atheist' would simply have no particular belief in a god. The latter is often referred to as 'agnosticism', but that definition of agnosticism is in fact incorrect. One can be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist.

agreed and that is a good representation that i can not fully answer some questions, only answer them in my view. So i agree with this

 

[brinny]

Since it was asked for, I can provide the brief story of how I became an atheist. I absolutely am not trying to debate atheism vs. theism or looking to convert. Hopefully this just helps spread a little bit of understanding.

I was raised as a Catholic in a very Catholic family. My dad became a deacon when I was around 11 and has the equivalent of a degree in theology. Very smart guy. Always went to mass, always talked about the importance of jesus, etc. I was very into it all throughout my teen years. I even went on a bunch of teen retreats and ending up leading several retreats. I was very much a fervent teen Catholic. Looking back, I'm sure that my influence, witnessing, and enthusiasm for Catholic Christianity converted many teens.

When I went to college, I began to struggle with my faith. It began with small things, such as political stances all the christians around me seemed to be taking, and what I thought were ridiculous attacks on science. After that, all kinds of questions popped up. I began to question the philosophy of religion, and what I really 'knew'. The main problem for me was this: 'I've been raised Catholic and strongly believe in the Catholic god... but I also know that if I was born in Pakistan i would undoubtedly be a devout Muslim. How do I know which religion is real?'

I stopped going to church very often. I still wrestled with that one question of 'How can one determine which religion out of dozens (or hundreds) has the truth?' To me, there was no satisfactory answer. I gradually began to think of myself as a deist, who still believed in some sort of omniscient god but who didn't claim to know which form he took. I was firmly no longer 'religious' at that point. Gradually, belief in a god at all began to make less sense to me as well, and I simply dropped it. I consider myself an agnostic atheist, meaning that I don't deny the possibility of god outright but I also think it's pretty unlikely any gods exist.

That's pretty much it. I imagine it's fairly typical of the "lose your religion in college" story. I still know a good bit about the bible from my religious days, and still go to mass occassionally. I don't take communion, but it doesn't really bother me to go on special occassions like xmas, easter, etc.

Thank you for your honest response. Religion doesn't do anything for me. It's rather tedious and boring and pointless. It seems for the most part to be an empty habitual, mindless groove that is a bit like a 'prison' of the mind, so to speak. I do not fit well in boxes, nor would i ever wish to. Boxes are confining, smothering, and extinguish life. Well, a coffin is a good example.

I appreciate this free exchange of thought. Thank you.

 

[atheist_jc]

I did not come to this site to fight. What about you?

you sound like you are looking down at me nd i do not want to fight, i want to teach all who wants to know

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
I did not come to this site to fight. What about you?

you sound like you are looking down at me nd i do not want to fight, i want to teach all who wants to know

That perception sounds self-imposed.

I'm leaving you be.

Peace.

 

[atheist_jc]

That perception sounds self-imposed.

I'm leaving you be.

Peace.

i am sorry that you do not like my answers and i am not meaning to be rude, but the language sounded like you were attacking me. So i am happy you are able to talk to him about it, but it seems like you have a perception about me that changed your mind about who i am but hopefully you will forgive me.

 

[atheist_jc]

Since it was asked for, I can provide the brief story of how I became an atheist. I absolutely am not trying to debate atheism vs. theism or looking to convert. Hopefully this just helps spread a little bit of understanding.

I was raised as a Catholic in a very Catholic family. My dad became a deacon when I was around 11 and has the equivalent of a degree in theology. Very smart guy. Always went to mass, always talked about the importance of jesus, etc. I was very into it all throughout my teen years. I even went on a bunch of teen retreats and ending up leading several retreats. I was very much a fervent teen Catholic. Looking back, I'm sure that my influence, witnessing, and enthusiasm for Catholic Christianity converted many teens.

When I went to college, I began to struggle with my faith. It began with small things, such as political stances all the christians around me seemed to be taking, and what I thought were ridiculous attacks on science. After that, all kinds of questions popped up. I began to question the philosophy of religion, and what I really 'knew'. The main problem for me was this: 'I've been raised Catholic and strongly believe in the Catholic god... but I also know that if I was born in Pakistan i would undoubtedly be a devout Muslim. How do I know which religion is real?'

I stopped going to church very often. I still wrestled with that one question of 'How can one determine which religion out of dozens (or hundreds) has the truth?' To me, there was no satisfactory answer. I gradually began to think of myself as a deist, who still believed in some sort of omniscient god but who didn't claim to know which form he took. I was firmly no longer 'religious' at that point. Gradually, belief in a god at all began to make less sense to me as well, and I simply dropped it. I consider myself an agnostic atheist, meaning that I don't deny the possibility of god outright but I also think it's pretty unlikely any gods exist.

That's pretty much it. I imagine it's fairly typical of the "lose your religion in college" story. I still know a good bit about the bible from my religious days, and still go to mass occassionally. I don't take communion, but it doesn't really bother me to go on special occassions like xmas, easter, etc.

Yeah that is kind of what happened to me only i was not in a deeply religious family, although they did believe in god, i am still in college and finding answers.

Is there anything you can say to me to help me understand, such as something you wish you knew early on.

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
That perception sounds self-imposed.

I'm leaving you be.

Peace.

i am sorry that you do not like my answers and i am not meaning to be rude, but the language sounded like you were attacking me. So i am happy you are able to talk to him about it, but it seems like you have a perception about me that changed your mind about who i am but hopefully you will forgive me.

i was not attacking you. I am not here to debate you or anyone else. I will freely share what i believe. I will hear you out on your point of view. I may interject a question or two. i value free exchange of ideas. i wasn't always a believer in the God i speak of. it was a journey like finding my way home. that, of course, is my own experience. it may not be anyone else's. that's why i only speak of my own experiences, and leave ev'ryone else to theirs.

No need to apologize. Peace.

 

[atheist_jc]

i was not attacking you. I am not here to debate you or anyone else. I will freely share what i believe. I will hear you out on your point of view. I may interject a question or two. i value free exchange of ideas. i wasn't always a believer in the God i speak of. it was a journey like finding my way home. that, of course, is my own experience. it may not be anyone else's. that's why i only speak of my own experiences, and leave ev'ryone else to theirs.

No need to apologize. Peace.

okay i guess

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
i was not attacking you. I am not here to debate you or anyone else. I will freely share what i believe. I will hear you out on your point of view. I may interject a question or two. i value free exchange of ideas. i wasn't always a believer in the God i speak of. it was a journey like finding my way home. that, of course, is my own experience. it may not be anyone else's. that's why i only speak of my own experiences, and leave ev'ryone else to theirs.

No need to apologize. Peace.

okay i guess

Take care.

 

[atheist_jc]

Take care.

ok

 

[brinny]

Originally Posted by brinny
Take care.

ok

Hey, glad you started the thread. Hope it takes root. It's a wunnerful thing to communicate, even with differing points of view.

It's Thursday morning, almost noon here. Have a wunnerful day.

 

[DannyOcean]

Yeah that is kind of what happened to me only i was not in a deeply religious family, although they did believe in god, i am still in college and finding answers.

Is there anything you can say to me to help me understand, such as something you wish you knew early on.

There are a number very good quotations that you can find using google about atheism. One of my favorites is from Carl Sagan, the renowned astronomer.

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring."

That quote can sometimes help if you feel like the world is bleak and dreary without religion. Religion offers eternal paradise, nirvana, virgins in heaven, etc. Atheism can't offer any of those things. But it's better to be able to see things as they are than believe even the grandest and most wonderful of stories if those stories are not true.

Hope that helps, and I would encourage you to look around the web. There are a great number of highly intelligent godless thinkers out there with a lot of interesting things to say.

 

[Ayersy]

It always seems to be that any threads pertaining to atheism always become a 'battle of definitions'. Which is a shame.

If I see "Air-zee, define 'battle of definitionz' LOLOLOLOLOLLLOLOALLALALLOLOL.", then someone's gonna get a punch in the bum. .

 

[DannyOcean]

It always seems to be that any threads pertaining to atheism always become a 'battle of definitions'. Which is a shame.

If I see "Air-zee, define 'battle of definitionz' LOLOLOLOLOLLLOLOALLALALLOLOL.", then someone's gonna get a punch in the bum. .

It's funny you say that... In the non-christian struggles forum I am currently trying to explain that atheism is not a religion or a belief system, but it doesn't seem to be working. Oh well. The best one can do is continue to be polite and as clear as you can be in your explanations. You may not convince the person you are talking with, but perhaps those reading but not posting might understand.