Atheism, not Islam is the enemy of Christianity

[JGG]

You have never been able to comprehend "my" God anyway, this is a factual statement because if you did, you would love Him.

Right, and you have never understood why I don't understand "your" God. If you did, you would probably understand why I can't believe in "your" God.

Only if someone makes it that way, which I don't. I tell people what I think they are wrong about and when it comes to Jesus and "my" God, some atheist's are wrong about a lot. I'd like for you to demonstrate how doing so makes us enemies, I just think it is a war without a cause.

That doesn't make us enemies. You and I may be able to come up with some kind of peace accord. However, given how Christians view atheists, we are enemies. Again, I will point you at the previous video examples of what typical Christians think of atheists. We are enemies because you are "us" and I am "them."

Wow, would you mind linking that thread?

Renouncing Religion

Pay close attention to a fellow named Grannen, who when describing "the evils of the Atheist Religion" ("the religion of hate and destruction") claims that it's tenets are communism, and that it's leaders are Stalin and Kim (I'm not sure which one), and that atheism's only accomplishment is "murder." And yadda, yadda, yadda. Pay even closer attention to those who attempt to refute these claims.

Then he claims that Christian leaders who molest boys are actually atheists. This, however, is refuted. Presumably because calling a Christian child abuser an atheist is offensive. Of course, Calling atheists communist murderers of the religion of hate and destruction is passable.

Actually, it's just a difference in belief, I understand (you could correct me if I'm wrong), biologically as far as science shows, all of humanity shares a common ancestor?

In the simplest terms that is true. However, you and I may know this, but in the end, you'll still be "us" and I'll still be "them."

 

[salida]

Islam persecutes christians in foreign countries-I wouldn't say their not an enemy.

 

[oi_antz]

Right, and you have never understood why I don't understand "your" God. If you did, you would probably understand why I can't believe in "your" God.

Well even I don't claim to fully understand God myself, but I do choose to trust Him and that's all He requires. Maybe when the prophesied day of resurrection comes I will see His glory and then I might understand Him, until that day then life is a journey of discovery, understanding God more by the day. The pertinent word in what I originally said is "comprehend". You have never been able to comprehend the God I worship, if you had ever comprehended Him you would love Him as I do.

That doesn't make us enemies. You and I may be able to come up with some kind of peace accord. However, given how Christians view atheists, we are enemies. Again, I will point you at the previous video examples of what typical Christians think of atheists. We are enemies because you are "us" and I am "them."

It seems to me you haven't read what I said about a house divided. in post #19 I am well aware that there are Christians who do not follow Christ. I even went so far to say that they are idolaters who have devised a false god. The most important comment I made however, is they don't seem preview and read their message and (the crucial thing) ask God "is it ok to say this", thus these Christians who are offending you are demonstrating that they are not doing the will of the Father in heaven. "Not everyone who cries to me Lord Lord will enter", for He will say "depart from me you who do evil". But you have just as much responsibility to demand that you be treated with respect, you can't expect these people to be corrected if the force of corrections remains silent.

Renouncing Religion

Pay close attention to a fellow named Grannen, who when describing "the evils of the Atheist Religion" ("the religion of hate and destruction") claims that it's tenets are communism, and that it's leaders are Stalin and Kim (I'm not sure which one), and that atheism's only accomplishment is "murder." And yadda, yadda, yadda. Pay even closer attention to those who attempt to refute these claims.

Then he claims that Christian leaders who molest boys are actually atheists. This, however, is refuted. Presumably because calling a Christian child abuser an atheist is offensive. Of course, Calling atheists communist murderers of the religion of hate and destruction is passable.

I addressed all this in post #19

In the simplest terms that is true. However, you and I may know this, but in the end, you'll still be "us" and I'll still be "them."

I'm not so sure of that, you know that one person has the power to change the world. I think if atheist's were able to muster the confidence to stand proud instead of laying meek, they could very well conquer the enemy. That's not just a flippant comment by the way, I think atheist's are totally responsible for establishing a respectable image. If you expect me to go around correcting everyone who says something wrong then I'm just going to sound argumentative. I've already told you that I don't come to this website for that reason. Others do of course, but not me.

Even though the atheist agenda is different from the Christian agenda, there is wisdom in the bible to which obedience would bring great rewards:

Ephesians 2
Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love.

It has been my experience that persistent patience and humility does pay off in the end, because the person who attacks a humble person bears affliction upon his conscience.

 

[oi_antz]

Right, and you have never understood why I don't understand "your" God. If you did, you would probably understand why I can't believe in "your" God.

Hi JGG, I have been thinking about what you say here and my response was not really very helpful to you, and I have been thinking that my whole purpose of coming to this website is to do exactly what you say here: to help you understand God.

I have come to realize that what I've been doing by speaking to you is trying to encourage you to be confident for who you are, to see that being atheist doesn't mean that God hates you. But that isn't what God wants me to be doing, what He wants me to be doing is exactly what you said right here: helping you to understand Him.

So you are completely right in saying that I haven't been able to understand why you don't understand God. But I don't think this is completely true, because I feel that I do understand why you don't understand God, and it is because the information you have received during the course of your life has not led you to think about God in the same way that I do. I believe that is all it boils down to, is that when you speak to people who literally know the same God that I know, you have a fundamental disagreement with our theology. Why is that though? That is what I would like your cooperation to establish. Are you willing to discuss this with me? I think it would be worthwhile.

 

[rturner76]

The Athiest as a person is NOT my enemy. My brother is an Athiest and would give someone the shirt off his back. He lives Christian values without admitting to it or I should say without connecting his behavior to any diety, just to the way a human should treat another human. I don't see how he could be my enemy.

NOW the viewpoint of the professed what you couls call evangelical Athiest and I have a completly different view of what the common denominator of life is and we expouse views that are contrary to each other.

By evangelical Athiest, I mean, an Athiest who does things like oh I dunno, come on a Christian website and try to convince people why Athiesm is a valid alternitive to Christianity. The same way an evangelical Christian would go to an Athiest website and do the same to an Athiest. It gets us nowhere. We just tell each other what we don't want to hear and it ends in frustration and we get further apart.

The only way for us to remain together is to basically not bring it up. There's an old rule in the barbarshop, talk about any thing you want except religon and politics. You get in trouble when you start talking about that stuff period.

Athiest, if you want to be treated respectfully by a Christian, don't attack their reason for living and belittle them for holding the beliefs that mold them to be the person they are. (not accusing anyone of that here, I want to make that clear. Christians, you know this guy has no intrest in God....let it go and have a burger.

Debating on a Christian forum will NEVER EVER bring Christians and Athiests closer together. Unless it is a thread desogned to do exactly that.

Now about Muslims, get over it, Christians burned more people alive who were fellow christians and molested more children and still do. Do you know that 5 million people have been killed in Iraq? In bith wars Military and civilian by the hands of the US. There is blood on both sides, that's why it's called war and guess what....nobody wins. Killing Muslims goes against everything Jesus taught. We can kill 5 million more muslims and it just takes 1 or 2 suicide bombers to destabalize our whole nations notion of safety. They have lived with that danger in the middle east and Isreal for 100 years. And we think we are going to make it better by killing more of them. Makes alot of sense. Maybe if we kill all the Muslims, we will finally be free. But then we can't really trust those Gnostic Christians can we? They are just like Muslims and those Hindus wear towels on their heards, they might have to go too. Alot of blacks become muslims, we should kill them as well. China has no religon oh no they do have muslems in areas but now they have christians too but they are commies so we better kill them just to be safe. Whats left in the end WHITE CHRISTIANS WHO ARE NOT REALLY CHRISTIANS!

 

[rturner76]

THE NEW WORLD ORDER HAS ARRIVED.....Wait they were the Athiests all along? Nooooooooooooooo!

 

[oi_antz]

The Athiest as a person is NOT my enemy. My brother is an Athiest and would give someone the shirt off his back. He lives Christian values without admitting to it or I should say without connecting his behavior to any diety, just to the way a human should treat another human. I don't see how he could be my enemy.

NOW the viewpoint of the professed what you couls call evangelical Athiest and I have a completly different view of what the common denominator of life is and we expouse views that are contrary to each other.

By evangelical Athiest, I mean, an Athiest who does things like oh I dunno, come on a Christian website and try to convince people why Athiesm is a valid alternitive to Christianity. The same way an evangelical Christian would go to an Athiest website and do the same to an Athiest. It gets us nowhere. We just tell each other what we don't want to hear and it ends in frustration and we get further apart.

The only way for us to remain together is to basically not bring it up. There's an old rule in the barbarshop, talk about any thing you want except religon and politics. You get in trouble when you start talking about that stuff period.

Athiest, if you want to be treated respectfully by a Christian, don't attack their reason for living and belittle them for holding the beliefs that mold them to be the person they are. (not accusing anyone of that here, I want to make that clear. Christians, you know this guy has no intrest in God....let it go and have a burger.

Debating on a Christian forum will NEVER EVER bring Christians and Athiests closer together. Unless it is a thread desogned to do exactly that.

Now about Muslims, get over it, Christians burned more people alive who were fellow christians and molested more children and still do. Do you know that 5 million people have been killed in Iraq? In bith wars Military and civilian by the hands of the US. There is blood on both sides, that's why it's called war and guess what....nobody wins. Killing Muslims goes against everything Jesus taught. We can kill 5 million more muslims and it just takes 1 or 2 suicide bombers to destabalize our whole nations notion of safety. They have lived with that danger in the middle east and Isreal for 100 years. And we think we are going to make it better by killing more of them. Makes alot of sense. Maybe if we kill all the Muslims, we will finally be free. But then we can't really trust those Gnostic Christians can we? They are just like Muslims and those Hindus wear towels on their heards, they might have to go too. Alot of blacks become muslims, we should kill them as well. China has no religon oh no they do have muslems in areas but now they have christians too but they are commies so we better kill them just to be safe. Whats left in the end WHITE CHRISTIANS WHO ARE NOT REALLY CHRISTIANS!

Hi rturner. This is the first time I have had the privilege to hear your thoughts, and while I agree on the whole with what you say, I disagree with one thing you said:

"Christians, you know this guy has no intrest in God....let it go and have a burger."

I do not believe that JGG has no interest in God. I think he has developed a belief that God is not real because he can't understand why God would make a world such as ours and non-theistic evolution seems to better explain how our world could be what it is. Of course I am not the authority on what JGG thinks, but I don't expect he would disagree with this assertion.

Ultimately, for those of us who do literally know the reality of God, we have a visible faith that gives us certainty of the truth, and this is something that an atheist can not currently have since they cannot be certain that God does not exist while a Christian can be certain that He does. This means that there is always going to be some curiosity (if not "interest") from an atheist as to knowing the Christian truth. Speaking about misbelievers generally and not just atheists, I think they know that Christianity has some truth but the problem is always being able to access that truth. Christianity is definitely not a religion you can just choose to follow, it is one that requires us to forfeit everything else. To prove this, I will quote how Jesus said it:

Parables of the Hidden Treasure and the Pearl

44 “The Kingdom of Heaven is like a treasure that a man discovered hidden in a field. In his excitement, he hid it again and sold everything he owned to get enough money to buy the field.
45 “Again, the Kingdom of Heaven is like a merchant on the lookout for choice pearls. 46 When he discovered a pearl of great value, he sold everything he owned and bought it!

 

[rturner76]

I do not believe that JGG has no interest in God. I think he has developed a belief that God is not real because he can't understand why God would make a world such as ours and non-theistic evolution seems to better explain how our world could be what it is. Of course I am not the authority on what JGG thinks, but I don't expect he would disagree with this assertion.

I'm glad you brought that up because I shouldn't try to presume anyone motivation. I should say even if one has an interest in God. He may not have an interest in hearing my reasons why he should have one. Maybe not this time because if he's a friend of mine, I would probably bring it up sometimes just to mess with him if nothing else.


There is something I thought of after I was in this site earlier today and I thought of this topic. I don't remember if it was on TV or how it entered my mind but. As Christians No, I'll speak for myself. This christian may sometimes get his vocabulary confused. If I may have just had an exchange with a less than well mannered Atheist on CF for example, I will start to think of them as......ANTI-THEIST.

Atheist: The word would seem to imply a lack of God like A symptomatic or Asexual. Non symptomatic or non sexual. That would be I statement like "I don't think there is one." ANTI-Theist would be more like opposed to God. Like I want to take people that believe in God DOWN! RawR!

There is a real difference the way I paint it but you get what I mean. I believe many of us group these two "Groups" together in one mob.

I think I have done it, I think many Christians have done it. I also think many of us have gone in with an open mind and been attacked too. Nobody's right or wrong. The funny thing is if we all do what Jesus says, we wont have these problems even if half of us were Atheists. Love our neighbor as ourselves

 

[s_s]

No, it's still the same thing. Like I said, atheists are the enemy. As long as you are the "us" and I am the "them" we are enemies.

So, what? You want to be enemies then? Catch a grip man, stop pushing out like your looking for a fight. If you don't want to be friendly, that fine, but I AM NOT YOUR ENEMY and ATHEISTS ARE NOT THE ENEMY OF CHRISTIANS. Accept it, or quote me and tell me what you want to believe, I don't care.

I'm not throwing it back at you. However, Fred Phelps also claims to love man kind. I think we're agreed that this probably isn't true. So, when you say that you love atheists, how do you know it? What action do you take that serves as feedback to show yourself that you love atheists?

Or more to the point, how would I know it? How do I know that you don't just say that you love atheists because your God expects you to say it? Really, just making the claim doesn't mean anything. It means even less when I've heard Christians say that before, and then call me a communist just because I don't believe in their God.

Proof? I can't give you that over the internets except to write it. You don't have to believe me. My best friend is an atheist. In fact out of about 6 best friends, 3 are atheists, a couple are agnostic/atheist catholics and one is one of those people of Christian background but not saved. But, you still don't have to believe me.
OTOH, I've been called all sorts of things because I don't believe in atheism, or any of the lies it spreads. I've been targeted in school for refusing to read morally dubious material, or things that contradict my beliefs. I've been called much nastier things than a Commie, and to my face too. Best part is, I can't remember any of it, because i put it all away from my mind, rather than declaring those people my enemies.

I come on here to discuss how we're treated out there, only to find more of the same, because that's how it is. Do you disagree that in our society atheists (and probably Muslims too) are essentially the defacto enemies of Christians?

Yes, I disagree.

You have "found" what you wanted to "find". You have ignored/refuted the people that have said this is not true.

 

[oi_antz]

So, what? You want to be enemies then? Catch a grip man, stop pushing out like your looking for a fight. If you don't want to be friendly, that fine, but I AM NOT YOUR ENEMY and ATHEISTS ARE NOT THE ENEMY OF CHRISTIANS. Accept it, or quote me and tell me what you want to believe, I don't care.

Please just be a bit wary of taking his comments as a personal attack. I have come to know that JGG has been sorely treated by Christians, so just keep that in mind. The actions we take, the words we choose have a huge impact upon the way He thinks of God, Jesus and those who claim to follow Him. Keep that Ephesians 2 verse in mind "bearing with one another in love", I don't read a loving attitude in your words that I have quoted here. If you can repent of your attitude in this snippet then perhaps you can understand why JGG senses that Christians are not treating him with love, and are treating him as an enemy. All it really is, is misunderstanding. You and he can't see eye-to-eye, the words he chooses to say do not draw the same picture in your mind as they draw in his, and likewise the words you choose to say do not draw the same picture in his mind as they draw in yours. It's mis-communication due to having a fundamental disagreement in spirit. "Me against you", finger pointing "you're wrong", we all need to rise above that and exercise patience because it really isn't impossible to love each other while having different theological beliefs!

 

[oi_antz]

If I may have just had an exchange with a less than well mannered Atheist on CF for example, I will start to think of them as......ANTI-THEIST.

This is exactly what JGG is talking about - why do you think it is "them"? Don't you understand that atheism is not an organisation, but a collection of individuals who have just one thing in common - "incapacity to declare faith in God"? I think you probably do, but I thought I'd just mention this in case you haven't already realized it for yourself

 

[oi_antz]

THE NEW WORLD ORDER HAS ARRIVED.....Wait they were the Athiests all along? Nooooooooooooooo!

Incorrect I believe, Jesus will not give authority to the faithless:

3 Lord, you are searching for honesty.
You struck your people,
but they paid no attention.
You crushed them,
but they refused to be corrected.
They are determined, with faces set like stone;
they have refused to repent.

4 Then I said, “But what can we expect from the poor?
They are ignorant.
They don’t know the ways of the Lord.
They don’t understand God’s laws.

 

[s_s]

Please just be a bit wary of taking his comments as a personal attack. I have come to know that JGG has been sorely treated by Christians, so just keep that in mind. The actions we take, the words we choose have a huge impact upon the way He thinks of God, Jesus and those who claim to follow Him. Keep that Ephesians 2 verse in mind "bearing with one another in love", I don't read a loving attitude in your words that I have quoted here. If you can repent of your attitude in this snippet then perhaps you can understand why JGG senses that Christians are not treating him with love, and are treating him as an enemy. All it really is, is misunderstanding. You and he can't see eye-to-eye, the words he chooses to say do not draw the same picture in your mind as they draw in his, and likewise the words you choose to say do not draw the same picture in his mind as they draw in yours. It's mis-communication due to having a fundamental disagreement in spirit. "Me against you", finger pointing "you're wrong", we all need to rise above that and exercise patience because it really isn't impossible to love each other while having different theological beliefs!

Fair enough, I am sorry for coming across harsh.

I will explain why - I am not making excuses, just explaining - I always, always try to speak the truth, even to my detriment. So it can be difficult for me to accept someone not believing me. This, I suppose, is an area where I have been hurt!

JGG, honestly, you are not my enemy, or Christianity's, and I hope you can accept that, and Antz, thankyou for rebuking me gently

 

[JGG]

Hi JGG, I have been thinking about what you say here and my response was not really very helpful to you, and I have been thinking that my whole purpose of coming to this website is to do exactly what you say here: to help you understand God.

Right, and I am here to help those who believe in God to understand atheists.

I have come to realize that what I've been doing by speaking to you is trying to encourage you to be confident for who you are, to see that being atheist doesn't mean that God hates you. But that isn't what God wants me to be doing, what He wants me to be doing is exactly what you said right here: helping you to understand Him.

So you are completely right in saying that I haven't been able to understand why you don't understand God. But I don't think this is completely true, because I feel that I do understand why you don't understand God, and it is because the information you have received during the course of your life has not led you to think about God in the same way that I do. I believe that is all it boils down to, is that when you speak to people who literally know the same God that I know, you have a fundamental disagreement with our theology. Why is that though? That is what I would like your cooperation to establish. Are you willing to discuss this with me? I think it would be worthwhile.

You're welcome to poke at my thoughts, but I should give you fair notice, that it's likely that it comes down to some principle that you take to be axiomatic, that I still question. In the past, that axiom has been that you take the Bible to be true and authoratative, and I do not.

 

[JGG]

I do not believe that JGG has no interest in God. I think he has developed a belief that God is not real because he can't understand why God would make a world such as ours and non-theistic evolution seems to better explain how our world could be what it is. Of course I am not the authority on what JGG thinks, but I don't expect he would disagree with this assertion.

Actually, I disagree with that assertion. For one, I don't think non-theistic evolution explains how our world could be what it is. I see how evolution (theistic or not) can better explain some things, but that's actually a very short list, all things considered. I'm just very willing to say "I don't know," or "I don't agree that 'God' is an acceptable explanation." I am willing to admit to, and live in uncertainty.

 

[JGG]

So, what? You want to be enemies then? Catch a grip man, stop pushing out like your looking for a fight. If you don't want to be friendly, that fine, but I AM NOT YOUR ENEMY and ATHEISTS ARE NOT THE ENEMY OF CHRISTIANS. Accept it, or quote me and tell me what you want to believe, I don't care.


Proof? I can't give you that over the internets except to write it. You don't have to believe me. My best friend is an atheist. In fact out of about 6 best friends, 3 are atheists, a couple are agnostic/atheist catholics and one is one of those people of Christian background but not saved. But, you still don't have to believe me.
OTOH, I've been called all sorts of things because I don't believe in atheism, or any of the lies it spreads. I've been targeted in school for refusing to read morally dubious material, or things that contradict my beliefs. I've been called much nastier things than a Commie, and to my face too. Best part is, I can't remember any of it, because i put it all away from my mind, rather than declaring those people my enemies.

Yes, I disagree.

You have "found" what you wanted to "find". You have ignored/refuted the people that have said this is not true.

So, here's my problem: I have videos of Christians describing their disdain for atheists (not even close to being the only ones, by the way), even being offended that the American President acknowledges their existence. I have a sociological study that shows that Americans (the majority of whom are Christians) overwhelmingly "distrust" atheists. I have a well-documented anecdote of a Christian politician describing his fear of atheists to pander to a Christian group. I have named this thread after another thread in the Christians Only section in which Christians assert that atheists are their enemies.

I could put forth my own unverifiable, anecdotal evidence, but that really doesn't mean much, does it?

My point is this: This is indeed what I have found. I understand that you're commanded to love atheists, I understand that you claim to love atheists. However, Christians are sending two messages, inadvertent as that may be. One message is clearly demonstrated quite easily, and the other is not. What can you show me that demonstrates the difficult message? If you're already thinking "I can't," then perhaps that's why one message overshadows the other.

 

[oi_antz]

Right, and I am here to help those who believe in God to understand atheists.

Well, I cannot say that I believe you are a representative of "atheist's", but rather an individual with his own reasons to describe himself as atheist. I know there's a lot of common ground among atheist's, but that commonality is hardly a constant such as we have with God.

 

[JGG]

Well, I cannot say that I believe you are a representative of "atheist's", but rather an individual with his own reasons to describe himself as atheist. I know there's a lot of common ground among atheist's, but that commonality is hardly a constant such as we have with God.

We being who? Christians? Are you now claiming that all Christians' beliefs regarding God are constant?

 

[oi_antz]

We being who? Christians? Are you now claiming that all Christians' beliefs regarding God are constant?

All "true" Christian beliefs are consistent, yes. Not to be confused with saying all "true Christian™" beliefs are constant. The constant is the uncanny ability for two Christians to agree. Though they might begin with different beliefs, by discussion through honesty they will come to understand each other and be in agreement. Therefore I submit that "God's truth" is a tangible constant.

Immature Christians who quarrel, hate and in all sorts of ways bring disrepute against the Lord's name are really demonstrating that they have not overcome the enemy. Their personal demons are still in control of their thoughts and instead of becoming that which Christ wants them to be, they make Christ become what they want Him to be.

 

[s_s]

What can you show me that demonstrates the difficult message?

Very little, via the internet. I already demonstrated the cross-section of beliefs among my friends, mainly met after I became saved, which I'd hoped would go some way towards that.
I cannot show you youtube clips of myself, or printed documents in newspapers showing that I mean what I say. I also cannot speak for other Christians; I can merely re-iterate what the Bible says, and how we are commanded and expected to treat other people, which includes Atheists.
You may feel you are the enemy of Christians, but this is far removed from being the enemy of Christianity. I believe there is a fundamental flaw in your perceptions there, which should be investigated. If you think of it in that way, you will see that one once in this thread have you proffered any evidence that you are (or atheists are) the enemy of Christianity.