Atheism, not Islam is the enemy of Christianity

[JGG]

"Atheism, not Islam is the enemy of Christianity"

I understand the idea of loving those who have made you their enemy, but can Christians declare atheists and Muslims their enemy, and still love them? How does that work?

 

[oi_antz]

As I understand it, my enemy is someone who hates me.

 

[Hentenza]

"Atheism, not Islam is the enemy of Christianity"

I understand the idea of loving those who have made you their enemy, but can Christians declare atheists and Muslims their enemy, and still love them? How does that work?

Neither is the 'enemy" of Christianity in of in itself, however, some may choose to prosecute the Christians. Examples would be atheistic governments like the old communist USSR and some of the Muslim middle eastern countries.

As far as loving one's enemies, Jesus taught the Christian in Matthew 5 the following.

43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 so that you may [ap]be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 If you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? 48 Therefore [aq]you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

This, we, as Christians, do seldomly do perfectly.

 

[JGG]

I understand the idea of loving those who have made you their enemy, but can Christians declare atheists and Muslims their enemy, and still love them? How does that work?

And really? Christians aren't my enemy? Why am I treated as the enemy?

 

[Hentenza]

I understand the idea of loving those who have made you their enemy, but can Christians declare atheists and Muslims their enemy, and still love them? How does that work?

And really? Christians aren't my enemy? Why am I treated as the enemy?

You are not my enemy. I was an atheist before accepting the Lord.

 

[s_s]

The devil is the enemy. Of everyone, even those he pretends to be friends with.

JGG, if you feel like you've been treated as an enemy, that's either a misconception or a saddening example presented to you by someone perhaps not fully living up to 'the call'. You are not. And even if someone does lay into you verbally, it doesn't mean you aren't loved. Like with family - you can have a blazing row - doesn't mean you hate that person.
Have a hug on me.

[/hug]

 

[oi_antz]

I understand the idea of loving those who have made you their enemy, but can Christians declare atheists and Muslims their enemy, and still love them? How does that work?

And really? Christians aren't my enemy? Why am I treated as the enemy?

Can you be specific, have you suffered more Christian abuse recently?

 

[oi_antz]

The devil is the enemy. Of everyone, even those he pretends to be friends with.

JGG, if you feel like you've been treated as an enemy, that's either a misconception or a saddening example presented to you by someone perhaps not fully living up to 'the call'. You are not. And even if someone does lay into you verbally, it doesn't mean you aren't loved. Like with family - you can have a blazing row - doesn't mean you hate that person.
Have a hug on me.

[/hug]

Thanks for saying that s_s. JGG you know that some Christians really do love you, why do you let those immature snotty nosed kids get you down?

 

[JGG]

Thanks for saying that s_s. JGG you know that some Christians really do love you, why do you let those immature snotty nosed kids get you down?

The devil is the enemy. Of everyone, even those he pretends to be friends with.

JGG, if you feel like you've been treated as an enemy, that's either a misconception or a saddening example presented to you by someone perhaps not fully living up to 'the call'. You are not. And even if someone does lay into you verbally, it doesn't mean you aren't loved. Like with family - you can have a blazing row - doesn't mean you hate that person.
Have a hug on me.

[/hug]

Well, that's a very easy thing to say. In fact, I would suggest it is about the easiest thing to say. Jesus did say "claim to love others as you love yourself," right?

At the same time, it doesn't take much to see a very clear "us vs. them" mentality. It is clear that Christians view me as the enemy simply because I don't believe in your God. Even though they may claim otherwise.

For instance:

Ray Comfort says: If Christians had as much faith in God as atheists have in the theory of evolution, we would see revival."

Now, let's do away with the absurdity of atheists having "faith" in the theory of evolution. If there was as much clear, identifiable, objective evidence for God as there was evolution, Christians would have a very easy time having "faith" in Him. And even though we have this evidence, we still test evolution.

But, it isn't as though it is only atheists who accept evolution. There are Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, agnostics, even Scientologists who accept evolution. Making the claim that it is somehow an "atheist belief" is simply intended to create battle lines, or exploit the battle lines already divided.

Just an example.

I've had Christians come on here and tell me how much they love atheists on one hand, and then make statements like "atheists are stupid, and generally evil."

 

[s_s]

OK, that's different. You've totally changed what you're talking about. You are complaining because we (Christians) do not like atheism. You've taken one mans words out of context slightly, and gone off on a tangent. Nobody has said ANYTHING against you.

if I had my cynical hat on, I would say you've deliberately made out like you're being treated badly so you can have another pop about evolution. No-one right now cares about who or how many people believe in evolution, that neither proves nor disproves it whatever.

Luckily, I don't have that hat on today.

Anyway, I resent you throwing our concerns and peaceful responses back in our faces. Sure, it was easy to say, because we meant it. If you don't want it, that's fine. But that doesn't mean it wasn't genuine.


Maybe the best thing to do, is if you're unhappy about atheists are being treated on this Christian website, is to spend your time somewhere else? In no way am I saying you're unwanted, but it certainly would be strange for you to hang around here if that's how you feel we all treat you, and aren't willing to accept genuine concern.

peace out.

 

[JGG]

OK, that's different. You've totally changed what you're talking about. You are complaining because we (Christians) do not like atheism. You've taken one mans words out of context slightly, and gone off on a tangent. Nobody has said ANYTHING against you.

No, it's still the same thing. Like I said, atheists are the enemy. As long as you are the "us" and I am the "them" we are enemies.

if I had my cynical hat on, I would say you've deliberately made out like you're being treated badly so you can have another pop about evolution. No-one right now cares about who or how many people believe in evolution, that neither proves nor disproves it whatever.

No, I don't particularly care about evolution right now. It could have just as easily been a comment about how we're communist, or how we have no morals, or how we're taking over the government, or how we're waging war on Christmas.

Luckily, I don't have that hat on today.

Good, neither do I.

Anyway, I resent you throwing our concerns and peaceful responses back in our faces. Sure, it was easy to say, because we meant it. If you don't want it, that's fine. But that doesn't mean it wasn't genuine.

I'm not throwing it back at you. However, Fred Phelps also claims to love man kind. I think we're agreed that this probably isn't true. So, when you say that you love atheists, how do you know it? What action do you take that serves as feedback to show yourself that you love atheists?

Or more to the point, how would I know it? How do I know that you don't just say that you love atheists because your God expects you to say it? Really, just making the claim doesn't mean anything. It means even less when I've heard Christians say that before, and then call me a communist just because I don't believe in their God.

Maybe the best thing to do, is if you're unhappy about atheists are being treated on this Christian website, is to spend your time somewhere else? In no way am I saying you're unwanted, but it certainly would be strange for you to hang around here if that's how you feel we all treat you, and aren't willing to accept genuine concern.

Because, it's not here. It's everywhere. Atheists are the most hated, distrusted minority in America. It wasn't long ago that New Gingrich pandered to a Christian group by telling them that government was being taken over by atheist muslims. A guy in Norway killed some 80 people because he saw Muslims, leftists, and atheists as an enemy to be slain.

‪Michelle Malkin: Atheists Should Be Treated Like "Trolls"‬‏ - YouTube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twoXZE9U0Io

If we were to ask Michelle Malkin, Mike Huckabee or the cast of Fox & Friends if they love atheists, I bet they would say they do. But I think they've demonstrated the "us" vs. "them" mentality that is inherent in modern western Christianity. They can say that they love atheists all they want, but they demonstrate their disdain for people like me, on behalf of Christianity.

I come on here to discuss how we're treated out there, only to find more of the same, because that's how it is. Do you disagree that in our society atheists (and probably Muslims too) are essentially the defacto enemies of Christians?

 

[oi_antz]

Well, that's a very easy thing to say. In fact, I would suggest it is about the easiest thing to say. Jesus did say "claim to love others as you love yourself," right?

At the same time, it doesn't take much to see a very clear "us vs. them" mentality. It is clear that Christians view me as the enemy simply because I don't believe in your God. Even though they may claim otherwise.

For instance:

Ray Comfort says: If Christians had as much faith in God as atheists have in the theory of evolution, we would see revival."

Now, let's do away with the absurdity of atheists having "faith" in the theory of evolution. If there was as much clear, identifiable, objective evidence for God as there was evolution, Christians would have a very easy time having "faith" in Him. And even though we have this evidence, we still test evolution.

But, it isn't as though it is only atheists who accept evolution. There are Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, agnostics, even Scientologists who accept evolution. Making the claim that it is somehow an "atheist belief" is simply intended to create battle lines, or exploit the battle lines already divided.

Just an example.

I've had Christians come on here and tell me how much they love atheists on one hand, and then make statements like "atheists are stupid, and generally evil."

Yep, while I still think Ray is within his rights to make that statement, I do acknowledge the point you're making that general terms like "atheist's are the enemy of Christians" are downright false and we really ought to work on that somehow. People like yourself and many other atheist's that I have personally witnessed by their activity, even on this website, proves that atheist's aren't all out to be Christianity's enemy. Some are of course *cough, no names*, but some of them just have a lot of hurt which manifest's as hatred toward a misunderstood "God that could have made a better world".

I do appreciate how difficult it is for you to listen to Jesus' little prospectors piping off how cool their buzz is, and don't get me wrong, there is definitely more animosity from "our" side of the fence. But you know, after a few of life's knocks they'll straighten out and it might not even require trauma to induce their maturity.

Anyhow, it is nice to speak to you again, I am sorry that you haven't seemed to have quite found your peace in Jesus yet, but it is good to hear your voice again anyway knowing that you're able to "rise above it" so to speak and be the better man. Please do let us know if there is any way we can help, maybe a bit of presence on a particular thread or any other ideas you might get. As s_s said, we aren't all enemies here on this planet, we are in the same boat together and we do have a common enemy.

 

[oi_antz]

If we were to ask Michelle Malkin, Mike Huckabee or the cast of Fox & Friends if they love atheists, I bet they would say they do. But I think they've demonstrated the "us" vs. "them" mentality that is inherent in modern western Christianity. They can say that they love atheists all they want, but they demonstrate their disdain for people like me, on behalf of Christianity.

I come on here to discuss how we're treated out there, only to find more of the same, because that's how it is. Do you disagree that in our society atheists (and probably Muslims too) are essentially the defacto enemies of Christians?

I'm sorry JGG, America must be extremely different from New Zealand. I just can't help but think that someone is taking it a bit too personally, but only because I don't know what it feels like to be you. I like that President Obama mentioned that non-believers constitute a part of the "patchwork quilt" of the culture and heritage of USA. I'd draw upon some wisdom of a doctor who once lectured me: the first step to liberating an oppressed group is to make fun of it. Get people laughing about it, then it lightens people's hearts toward it. It was the technique used to liberate women and gay rights, it could be something to think about.

 

[JGG]

Yep, while I still think Ray is within his rights to make that statement, I do acknowledge the point you're making that general terms like "atheist's are the enemy of Christians" are downright false and we really ought to work on that somehow.

Ray is well within his rights to say nearly anything he wants. If Ray wants to say that atheists are unamerican, and don't deserve civil rights, he is well within his rights, just as Richard Dawkins is well within his rights to claim that theists are delusional. That does not mean that you or he understand atheists, or do not want to contribute to the divide. Do not want to highlight how different I am from you because I don't believe in your God. It doesn't change the fact that you also recognize that you are the "us," and I am the "them." Saying that atheists are the enemy of Christians is not false. It's the way it is.

I do appreciate how difficult it is for you to listen to Jesus' little prospectors piping off how cool their buzz is, and don't get me wrong, there is definitely more animosity from "our" side of the fence. But you know, after a few of life's knocks they'll straighten out and it might not even require trauma to induce their maturity.

No there isn't. I watched another poster on here claim that atheists were all communists, who wanted to murder babies, and forcibly take over the United States. He then went on to say that Christians who did horrible things were actually atheists.

You, Oi, went on to defend the Christians he mentioned, but did not say a single word in defense of atheists despite the ridiculous statements he made. In fact, nobody did. How difficult would it have been to say something along the lines of "atheists don't kill babies" or "not all atheists are communists" or "atheists are human too?" Yet, nobody could be bothered to do it. This is what I'm talking about when I say it's real easy to say "I love atheists." But they're pretty empty words, aren't they?

You know as well as I do, that atheists are fundamentally different because you have decided we are. We are the enemies because Christianity needs us to be the enemy. We are the "them" because you are the "us."

 

[JGG]

I'm sorry JGG, America must be extremely different from New Zealand. I just can't help but think that someone is taking it a bit too personally, but only because I don't know what it feels like to be you. I like that President Obama mentioned that non-believers constitute a part of the "patchwork quilt" of the culture and heritage of USA. I'd draw upon some wisdom of a doctor who once lectured me: the first step to liberating an oppressed group is to make fun of it. Get people laughing about it, then it lightens people's hearts toward it. It was the technique used to liberate women and gay rights, it could be something to think about.

That was supposed to be funny when they seriously asked the question "Are you offended that Obama acknowledged non-believers in his inaugural address?"

I'm sorry, if I'm being to sensitive, maybe it's because I have been physically assaulted for being an atheist.

 

[oi_antz]

Do not want to highlight how different I am from you because I don't believe in your God.

You have never been able to comprehend "my" God anyway, this is a factual statement because if you did, you would love Him.

It doesn't change the fact that you also recognize that you are the "us," and I am the "them." Saying that atheists are the enemy of Christians is not false. It's the way it is.

Only if someone makes it that way, which I don't. I tell people what I think they are wrong about and when it comes to Jesus and "my" God, some atheist's are wrong about a lot. I'd like for you to demonstrate how doing so makes us enemies, I just think it is a war without a cause.

No there isn't. I watched another poster on here claim that atheists were all communists, who wanted to murder babies, and forcibly take over the United States. He then went on to say that Christians who did horrible things were actually atheists.

You, Oi, went on to defend the Christians he mentioned, but did not say a single word in defense of atheists despite the ridiculous statements he made. In fact, nobody did. How difficult would it have been to say something along the lines of "atheists don't kill babies" or "not all atheists are communists" or "atheists are human too?" Yet, nobody could be bothered to do it. This is what I'm talking about when I say it's real easy to say "I love atheists." But they're pretty empty words, aren't they?

Wow, would you mind linking that thread?

You know as well as I do, that atheists are fundamentally different because you have decided we are.

Actually, it's just a difference in belief, I understand (you could correct me if I'm wrong), biologically as far as science shows, all of humanity shares a common ancestor?

We are the enemies because Christianity needs us to be the enemy. We are the "them" because you are the "us."

Rubbish, I've said before that Christianity has no need for atheists. It's all about helping people develop a loving relationship with Jesus (who is a real physical person who is alive today and who knows your sorrow but wishes you to discover the joy and peace that comes by loving and honoring God).

 

[oi_antz]

That was supposed to be funny when they seriously asked the question "Are you offended that Obama acknowledged non-believers in his inaugural address?"

I'm sorry, if I'm being to sensitive, maybe it's because I have been physically assaulted for being an atheist.

Yep, you wouldn't get that in our neck of the woods.

 

[oi_antz]

That was supposed to be funny when they seriously asked the question "Are you offended that Obama acknowledged non-believers in his inaugural address?"

I'm sorry, if I'm being to sensitive, maybe it's because I have been physically assaulted for being an atheist.

Seriously man, this scares me. I think you must be hanging around some wolves in sheep's clothing, no-one I've met or spoken to has indicated that they hate atheist's and until that honesty thread a few months back I had never even seen such a church. Even today I don't know of any churches locally that would encourage members to behave like that. Sure, I have witnessed some who milk the tithes and keep the flock brainwashed in a thoughtless daze of Sunday to Sunday but nothing so malicious as to attack or even ostracize atheists - much the less. Once upon a time I mentioned to a prospective employer that I enjoy theology, he wasn't impressed and never contacted me again. Never mind too much not everyone has made peace with God and it just went to show that religion and workplace is not a good mix. I don't know how I can show my sympathy for what has happened to you and I'm not sure sympathy would even help. If it helps you to know that there is hope in the world then I would like you to know that atheist's would be just as welcome to live in my home as I have had Muslims, Africans, Oneness/New Age's, Hindu's as well as Christians over the years. The discrimination you describe is completely foreign to me, and I am being 100% honest in saying this. I really feel for you, it doesn't make me want to visit USA though my Aunty has just married over there

 

[oi_antz]

Hey, found that thread for reference: http://www.christianforums.com/t7568986/#post57764476

Yes I have noticed that more than one in particular was quite rough with their comments on that thread. It is as though they don't preview and read through a few times and ask God "is this ok" before they blurt their opinion. I don't know why you would expect me to correct Grannen's statements against atheism, I would expect that an atheist would do it for their own interests but as you see when I spoke to Grannen in post #26, let me quote it:

I think you need to be careful here, atheism is a label for people who happen to not believe God exists. Christianity is a label for some of the people who do happen to believe God exists, and the name "Christian" even encompasses idolaters that somehow manage to invent a God that permits the heinous crimes you mention. So I would suggest you need to think a bit more before saying that sinful Christians are atheist, I suspect you are probably wrong about that.

Now, if you think that this does not demonstrate a loving attitude toward atheist's, I would like you to explain how it could be improved. Understand please for me the issue is not whether people make right statements period, but whether they make right statements about Jesus, and that is my one/only agenda on this website. With that criteria in mind you will see that I portrayed evil Christians as more evil than atheists, and did not even mention a judgment against atheist's in terms of righteousness, mainly because my impression of atheism itself is that it's members have high moral values, so you will scarce hear me speak ill of atheism whilst still maintaining that Jesus is Lord.

Now, back to OP. If you maintain that atheism is an enemy to Christianity because you want to tear down the religion that would physically assault an atheist, then I would say to you that I too am an enemy to that Christianity. But since we are putting Christianity against Christianity it is a house divided against itself, and it can not stand like that. What we need to do is realize that our enemies are not our carnal brothers, our genetic brethren, but our enemies are the evil desires, of which it seems no-one, even Christians, can escape! - Though of course it only seems that way, because I know from experience that we can escape our evil desires (I know), by honoring Jesus. If you can discover another way to conquer sin and evil, then you are most welcome in my opinion to be my ally, and I would rather that than have you as an enemy. As you know, I highly admire a lot of atheist's for their individual virtues.

 

[oi_antz]

For instance:

Ray Comfort says: If Christians had as much faith in God as atheists have in the theory of evolution, we would see revival."

But, it isn't as though it is only atheists who accept evolution. There are Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, agnostics, even Scientologists who accept evolution. Making the claim that it is somehow an "atheist belief" is simply intended to create battle lines, or exploit the battle lines already divided.

Just an example.

I have understood your point, I hope you will be pleased to see the revision:

Adapted from Ray Comfort
If Christians had as much faith in God as a typical scientist has in the theory of evolution, we would see revival.