Atheism is amoral

[Freodin]

So I have to ask: why did you join ChristianForums to discuss your non-beliefs with Christians?

I don't.
My "agenda" here, if you can call it that, consists of mainly two point.
First, I am trying to understand how believers tick. I am "genuinly curious".
Second, I am trying to set believers right when they spread falsehoods about atheists.

I am part of other internet communities, many of which deal with the negative consequences that "faith" so often has. But here, it would be quite useless for me to talk about topics. I find it just too frustrating to talk to deaf ears, people who simply cannot imagine at all that they might be wrong.

 

[Freodin]

Interesting that i can put one short reflection and it releases so much vitriole from visiting atheists.

Like someone else commented i wouldn't visit atheist forums. To just goad people.
Anyway atheists can be sure they do not have any effect on my faith. Nothing and nobody could do that.

I wish you all the peace of Jesus Christ. That peace that is beyond our understanding.

It is not your faith that we are trying to affect. It is your - quite abrasive - behaviour towards people who do not share your faith.

But if that IS your faith - not caring about other people as long as JESUS!... well, you might consider reevaluating the dogmas of your faith in this case.

 

[bhsmte]

It is not your faith that we are trying to affect. It is your - quite abrasive - behaviour towards people who do not share your faith.

But if that IS your faith - not caring about other people as long as JESUS!... well, you might consider reevaluating the dogmas of your faith in this case.

Agree.

From a psychology standpoint, i find the christians that need to demonize those who disagree with them, as the folks that likely have a deep insecurity about their own belief and hence feel threatened by anyone disagreeing and then those handy defense mechanisms engage.

 

[Eudaimonist]

Actually, any hatefulness is coming from you the atheist.

None at all in this thread, as far as I can tell.

You are not convinced, so be it.

That's where it stands.

By the way any atheists, what do you make of the memorial service going on at St Paul's Cathedral today? To remember victims of the Grenfell fire. Is it a load of rubbish? Do you think all who are there are fools? Misguided?

To remember the victims of a fire? Sounds fine to me. Why would I be bothered by that?

What would atheists do instead?
I am simply curious.

I would remember the victims of a fire. There's nothing intrinsically religious about that.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Archie Dupont]

Well i am not your judge. But you are not your judge either.
One day we shall each stand before God.

Everybody is their own judge. You should judge yourself a little more on your un-christian behavior. It's like your on a crusade or something XD

 

[Astrophile]

It means absolutely nobody is beyond redemption. No matter what.

Judas Iscariot? Pontius Pilate?

 

[Grace2022]

Judas Iscariot? Pontius Pilate?

It's so dreary talking to atheists. I must make a note to self not to do it any more! Lol!
Life is too short to waste.
I wish you the peace of God, available to absolutely every soul, if you want it.
Now I'm off to talk to my kindred spirits and you can be off to talk to yours. Have fun. Xx

 

[Shadow]

So, if hundred people group together and make a weapon that ends up killing everybody on earth, that's neither good or bad within atheistic worldview. That was just an event that was ultimately governed by chance.

There is alot to go from here, but I'm going to pick this one out.

lets assume that there is an atheistic worldview for a moment. A Worldview is a vast collection of beliefs covering every conceivable subject imaginable. Within that worldview, there are going to be differences of interpretation, methodology, etc which means that there is no one response from one worldview. So even within an Atheistic worldview, you are likely to get different responses.

The idea that killing everybody on earth is niether good or bad makes the assumption that the existence of the human race is neither good or bad. Life has no inherent value (without a god). That is certainly one way to look at it.

However, it is also possible that human beings are animals and are driven by their biological instincts towards survival. The purpose of a weapon (e.g. the atom bomb) is to defeat an enemy. If you drop nukes on your enemy it serves as a means to protect your own survival. In this way killing your enemies is in a person's interests out of an animal instinct for survival. However, that same instinct will respond differently to the threat of "mutually assured destruction". If we, as animals, want to survive, weapons are only a means to achieve our survival. If the use of such weapons does not achieve our intended ends, it is both rational and biologically sound, not to use them.

This isn't so much a definitive answer to problem in your OP, but I think the complexity and variety of views within an Atheistic worldview need to be taken in to account. There is no "one" atheism and no "one" response from Atheists, much the same as Christians, even of the same denomination, will debate various questions within their own faith and belief system.

 

[jardiniere]

Hey, I have a question for atheists posting here.

If I were to join an atheist message board and discuss religion with the users, I would feel like black person at a KKK meeting. Not only would I be out of place, I would also feel hunted. Not all atheists are hostile towards people of faith and religion in general, but many of them are. Just look at Richard Dawkins’ website. He posts articles that are far from friendly towards faith, and many of the comments are aggressively anti-religion.

The atheists who have posted here have rightly noted the hostility some Christians are showing them due to their lack of belief. So I have to ask: why did you join ChristianForums to discuss your non-beliefs with Christians?

I don’t mean to sound hostile, nor am I implying you shouldn’t be welcome. I’m genuinely curious.

I don't feel hunted or afraid, ever, so that is a non-issue I can't discuss. Nor am I an atheist in the strict sense, but only atheist in that I don't believe any organized religion has any real notion of a "legitimate" god. I didn't join CF to discuss my beliefs about gods, but to join the philosophy forum, which shut down days after I joined, it seems. I stuck around for the lulz of the politics forums.

(I'm more of a Spinozan deist thinker about what is god, than not.)

 

[Eudaimonist]

It's so dreary talking to atheists.

They expect honest two-way discussion, instead of pontification. That must be such a burden on you.

Life is too short to waste.

Agreed! Life is short.


eudaimonia,

Mark

 

[Allandavid]

Interesting that i can put one short reflection and it releases so much vitriole from visiting atheists.

Like someone else commented i wouldn't visit atheist forums. To just goad people.
Anyway atheists can be sure they do not have any effect on my faith. Nothing and nobody could do that.

I wish you all the peace of Jesus Christ. That peace that is beyond our understanding.

You’ve repeated that message several times now...that nothing will “affect my faith”. And yet, I haven’t noticed anyone here attempting to rob you of that faith. It almost seems like you want to reassure yourself...

 

[bhsmte]

You’ve repeated that message several times now...that nothing will “affect my faith”. And yet, I haven’t noticed anyone here attempting to rob you of that faith. It almost seems like you want to reassure yourself...

Nailed it! Folks who are miffed others dont agree with their faith beliefs, likely have deep insecurities about their own beliefs, that triggers this behavior.

 

[Rebecca12]

I've been gone for quite a while and revisited this thread, reading the last few pages. Freodin, thanks for sharing your story about your brother and mother. It almost took my breath away when Lilly responded with "LOL."

 

[Grace2022]

Hi Rebecca

Please let me say i think my reply of 'LoL' was taken out of context. I've made an error of some kind. I would certainly never reply like that at anyone's grief or life. I must have put that in reply to something else that was said. You know, someone winding me up.
I absolutely apologise if it looks like that. I am not like that. I sympathise with anyone who has struggled with bereavement and loss. I am so sorry if it looked like anything else.
I am not very technically minded so am never entirely sure of which comment i replied to and must have got it wrong. Under no circumstances would i wish to hurt anyone.

 

[Freodin]

Hi Rebecca

Please let me say i think my reply of 'LoL' was taken out of context. I've made an error of some kind. I would certainly never reply like that at anyone's grief or life. I must have put that in reply to something else that was said. You know, someone winding me up.
I absolutely apologise if it looks like that. I am not like that. I sympathise with anyone who has struggled with bereavement and loss. I am so sorry if it looked like anything else.
I am not very technically minded so am never entirely sure of which comment i replied to and must have got it wrong. Under no circumstances would i wish to hurt anyone.

Dear Lilly,
as I said in an earlier post, a conversation online in such a forum is different from a face-to-face conversation. These are different conditions. I don't know how you post, when you post, what means you use to post, how much experience you have with the technical side of how this forum works or how you are meant to use it. I don't know about the limits of your technical equipment or understanding.

One thing that is very helpful to engage in a conversation is the "Quote" function. It allows the user you responded to to be notified that you respond to them, and it allows other readers to understand who and what you are responding to.

Using it also activates the "alerts" function, notifying the previous poster that someone has responded to their post... though I don't know if and how this function works on portable devices or phones.

So, again, I cannot be sure that you followed the conversation in the same way as I did. I have to give you the benefit of doubt.


Still...
...we have had a conversation over several posts now. Once, you even managed to quote my post... with an evasion to a completely different topic. I personally always use the quote function when responding to particular posts, so you should have been aware that I was talking to you at least... even if you weren't talking to me.

Repeatedly I now have reminded you of my original post - about the death of my family, and our experiences with "death" - and that I was very hurt about your reaction.
Was that "taken out of context"? I don't know. Maybe.

But I have given you a lot of hints and opportunities to rectify this perceived mistake. Once, I even asked you directly:"You have hurt people. What are you going to do about it?".

It pains me to have to be so direct to someone who constantly proclaims how much she is to love other humans: you have hurt me. You have ignored me. What are you going to do about that?

 

[Grace2022]

Hi
You have my unreserved apology. I am truly sorry. My mistake in getting genuinely totally confused about who was posting what.
I know the pain of loss and bereavement. There is no pain like it. I would never ever have meant to hurt you or anyone.
All i have meant to try to communicate is that God is very real to me and without the strength i have from my faith i would have never coped. But we each have our own views. Things can get heated and out of hand.
I hope you will forgive me. I hope it is ok to wish you and everyone a happy christmas. Xxx

 

[Strathos]

Using it also activates the "alerts" function, notifying the previous poster that someone has responded to their post... though I don't know if and how this function works on portable devices or phones.

It works just fine on my mobile device, FYI.

 

[Freodin]

Hi
You have my unreserved apology. I am truly sorry. My mistake in getting genuinely totally confused about who was posting what.
I know the pain of loss and bereavement. There is no pain like it. I would never ever have meant to hurt you or anyone.
All i have meant to try to communicate is that God is very real to me and without the strength i have from my faith i would have never coped. But we each have our own views. Things can get heated and out of hand.
I hope you will forgive me. I hope it is ok to wish you and everyone a happy christmas. Xxx

I accept your apology. I understand that you don't want or mean to hurt anyone.

But you should realize that you might hurt others even without wanting or meaning it.

You say: "All i have meant to try to communicate is that God is very real to me and without the strength i have from my faith i would have never coped."

As I and others have said repeatedly on this thread: this is great for you. But quite obviously, this is not "all" you meant to say. You felt it necessary to add that all those who don't have your kind of faith are somehow worse off... are "lost".

We each have our own views. We disagree. We might even point out our disagreements. But that does not mean we hate, attack, mock or ridicule you when we do that. And so it isn't necessary to accuse us of doing it.

Realize this, and there will be a lot less need for apologies.


Merry Christmas!

Freodin

 

[Freodin]

It works just fine on my mobile device, FYI.

Thank you for this info. I exclusively use my PC to go online, so I don't have any means to know what does or does not work on mobiles.

 

[Grace2022]

I accept your apology. I understand that you don't want or mean to hurt anyone.

But you should realize that you might hurt others even without wanting or meaning it.

You say: "All i have meant to try to communicate is that God is very real to me and without the strength i have from my faith i would have never coped."

As I and others have said repeatedly on this thread: this is great for you. But quite obviously, this is not "all" you meant to say. You felt it necessary to add that all those who don't have your kind of faith are somehow worse off... are "lost".

We each have our own views. We disagree. We might even point out our disagreements. But that does not mean we hate, attack, mock or ridicule you when we do that. And so it isn't necessary to accuse us of doing it.

Realize this, and there will be a lot less need for apologies.


Merry Christmas!

Freodin

I thank you and take on board what you say.
X