Atheism Disproven?

[renniks]

In my opinion, I find it difficult to hold onto the ideology of classical atheism after reading the following passages by two very deep thinkers:

Douglas Wilson on Atheism

"If there is no God, then all that exists is time and chance acting on matter. If this is true then the difference between your thoughts and mine correspond to the difference between shaking up a bottle of Mountain Dew and a bottle of Dr. Pepper. You simply fizz atheistically and I fizz theistically. This means that you do not hold to atheism because it is true, but rather because of a series of chemical reactions. Morality, tragedy, and sorrow are equally evanescent. They are all empty sensations created by the chemical reactions of the brain, in turn created by too much pizza the night before. If there is no God, then all abstractions are chemical epiphenomena, like swamp gas over fetid water. This means that we have no reason for assigning truth and falsity to the chemical fizz we call reasoning or right and wrong to the irrational reaction we call morality. If no God, mankind is a set of bi-pedal carbon units of mostly water. And nothing else."

C.S. Lewis on Atheism

"If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents – the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else’s. But if their thoughts – i.e., Materialism and Astronomy – are mere accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It’s like expecting the accidental shape taken by the splash when you upset a milk-jug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was upset."

Summary

These two passages, taken together, seem to imply that if classical atheism is true, then the following are true: That the thoughts, emotions, and behaviors of humans are nothing more than accidental fizzing chemical reactions completely devoid of any underlying meaning. That humans themselves are completely devoid of any underlying meaning.

Nevertheless, when I open my eyes and look around, the thoughts, emotions, and behaviors of humans seem to be pregnant with meaning. That humans themselves seem to be pregnant with meaning.

So in order to disprove classical atheism, all one has to do is open one's eyes and look around.

Any thoughts on this?

It's logically correct. In the purely Atheistic universe, nothing really matters. It's all just a unbroken line of random causation, and we are just cogs in that wheel.

 

[Yttrium]

It's logically correct. In the purely Atheistic universe, nothing really matters. It's all just a unbroken line of random causation, and we are just cogs in that wheel.

Naturalistic. Not atheistic. You're mistaking atheism for naturalism.

 

[stevil]

It's logically correct. In the purely Atheistic universe, nothing really matters. It's all just a unbroken line of random causation, and we are just cogs in that wheel.

Richard Dawkins in Nightwish Endless Forms most Beautiful


"We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones
Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born
The potential people who could have been here in my place
But who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Sahara
Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton
We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA
So massively exceeds the set of actual people
In the teeth of those stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here
We privileged few, who won the lottery of birth against all odds
How dare we whine at our inevitable return to that prior state
From which the vast majority have never stirred?"
There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers
Having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one
And that whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity
From so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been
And are being, evolved"

 

[Bradskii]

It's logically correct. In the purely Atheistic universe, nothing really matters. It's all just a unbroken line of random causation, and we are just cogs in that wheel.

Speaking as a random cog, nothing ultimately matters. Big, big difference.

And tbere's no need to capitalise 'Atheistic'.

 

[Ken-1122]

It's logically correct. In the purely Atheistic universe, nothing really matters. It's all just a unbroken line of random causation, and we are just cogs in that wheel.

Wrong. As long as there are humans, things matter.

 

[Ken-1122]

i find it interesting that the the god the christians believe in is the same god the atheist's don't believe in ... which makes them both right and wrong for the same reason ...

I find it interesting that the same God's Hindu's believe in is the same God Christians and Atheists don't believe in. Kinda like they're on the same team

 

[renniks]

Richard Dawkins in Nightwish Endless Forms most Beautiful


"We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones
Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born
The potential people who could have been here in my place
But who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Sahara
Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton
We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA
So massively exceeds the set of actual people
In the teeth of those stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here
We privileged few, who won the lottery of birth against all odds
How dare we whine at our inevitable return to that prior state
From which the vast majority have never stirred?"
There is grandeur in this view of life, with its several powers
Having been originally breathed into a few forms or into one
And that whilst this planet has gone cycling on according to the fixed law of gravity
From so simple a beginning endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful have been
And are being, evolved"

Ask him if he feels that that way when he's actually dying. Sure we won the lottery, but for a few years on this planet? There's so much more that the heart longs for than that. Where does that longing for forever come from? God has put eternity in the hearts of men.

 

[renniks]

Speaking as a random cog, nothing ultimately matters. Big, big difference.

And tbere's no need to capitalise 'Atheistic'.

tbere's no need for your mistakes either. But they don't matter because you are just dust driven by a random wind...

 

[renniks]

Wrong. As long as there are humans, things matter.

Why?

 

[stevil]

Ask him if he feels that that way when he's actually dying. Sure we won the lottery, but for a few years on this planet? There's so much more that the heart longs for than that. Where does that longing for forever come from? God has put eternity in the hearts of men.

I think the poetry and the outlook that Dawkins conveys is really quite magnificent and beautiful - also consistent with reality.

Many people tend to assume that only theism can offer a belief in majesty, beauty and purpose in life and that science only offers a dry and heartless and ultimately bleak explanation.

I think, besides Dawkins' strong grasp of evolutionary biology, I think his strength is to see and convey the beauty inherent in the scientific explanation.

 

[Ken-1122]

Why?

Because as long as an intelligent being cares about something, it has value. As long as something has value, it matters; even if it only matters to the one person who values it, it still matters.

 

[Bradskii]

tbere's no need for your mistakes either. But they don't matter because you are just dust driven by a random wind...

With what song did Kansas have a huge hit.
Now I'll take Presidents for $100 thanks Alex.

So you don't believe in free will, rennick?

 

[honey badger]

Very different.
Christianism comes with scriptures that all Christains base their beliefs over. They believe in characters, concepts and events portrayed in those books/scriptures e.g. god, jesus, adam, eve, moses, noah, genesis of the universe and earth and man and women, they believe in sin, in heaven, in demons and angels. Many go to church or church groups, many go to church leaders for advice.

Atheists have none of this. There is no Atheism. Just individual Atheists.

atheism has its leaders and also its doctrines and just like the christian's a belief in an unprovable theology which requires faith ...

 

[honey badger]

I find it interesting that the same God's Hindu's believe in is the same God Christians and Atheists don't believe in. Kinda like they're on the same team

they are all one and the same just different versions ....

 

[Bradskii]

atheism has its leaders and also its doctrines and just like the christian's a belief in an unprovable theology which requires faith ...

Could you tell me what doctrines I hold to that are a direct result of my atheism?

 

[honey badger]

Could you tell me what doctrines I hold to that are a direct result of my atheism?

well for one you hold to and are grouped together with others who's belief is that deities do not exist, which matters not if they do or do not seeing there is a third option ... in other words being for or being against are just two sides of the same coin ...

 

[stevil]

atheism has its leaders and also its doctrines and just like the christian's a belief in an unprovable theology which requires faith ...

So who is my leader then? Who is the authority in "lack of belief in god(s)"?

Do we also have a leader in lack of belief in fairies? Does someone know more about lacking of belief in fairies than all the other people that also lack belief in fairies?

 

[honey badger]

So who is my leader then? Who is the authority in "lack of belief in god(s)"?

Do we also have a leader in lack of belief in fairies? Does someone know more about lacking of belief in fairies than all the other people that also lack belief in fairies?

your leaders are those who came before you voicing opinions you agree with ...

 

[Freodin]

yes it is, as it applies to every god of every religion ...

So... Christians believe in exactly the same God as every other religion?

 

[Freodin]

You may not consider it a god or worship in the traditional/Christian sense, but something in your life is a god to you (by Christian definition) and takes precedence above all other things. You're worshiping (by secular definition) something without recognizing it as worship.

For me, for the longest time, it was a number of addictions. Over-eating, coffee, gaming, etc. Those were my world and my gods.

ETA: Parentheses added for context.

Seriously? Something that takes precendence above ALL OTHER THINGS? This is what you "worship"? This is your "God"?
Seriously?

Well... in that case, I guess the existence of "God" is finally proven.

It's oxygen.

But you could prove me wrong... get rid of it just as of your over-eating, coffee and gaming. Just stop breathing.