Atheism Disproven?

[Freodin]

In order to be considered a Christian by the operators and moderators of this forum it is necessary to subscribe to the tenets of the Nicene Creed.
CF Statement of Faith | Christian Forums

It's... interesting.

When I set my displayed "faith", it still was something the user did themselves. This does no longer seem to be the case.
In the rules, there is a section that details who is considered a Christian by the forum, and what kind of restrictions there are for non-Christians. But there is no explicit rule that would prevent you to indentify as "Christian", even in contrast to the forum-defined categories.
There is, on the other hand, a rule that prohibits "stating or implying that another Christian member, or group of members, are not Christian".

Which, in a strictly legal setting, would be a bit of a bummer. The rules themselves directly do state who is not a Christian... which under the same rules would be forbidden towards anyone who identifies as a Christian.

But then: this isn't a strictly legal setting. This is a private forum, and if the powers-that-be say something, it is done, and there is no recourse.

I've opened a ticket to ask a mod how such a case would be handled. Let's see what they say.

 

[renniks]

think, besides Dawkins' strong grasp of evolutionary biology, I think his strength is to see and convey the beauty inherent in the scientific explanation.

If he's so at peace why is he such an angry man?

 

[renniks]

Because as long as an intelligent being cares about something, it has value. As long as something has value, it matters; even if it only matters to the one person who values it, it still matters.

Does not compute. My caring about something doesn't give that something any more value. That's saying I have some power to change reality. If I'm just part of the machine I have no more value than a amoba or grain of sand.

 

[renniks]

With what song did Kansas have a huge hit.
Now I'll take Presidents for $100 thanks Alex.

So you don't believe in free will, rennick?

I do. Because I believe in a creator who endowed us with that freedom. But minus him, we are just dust and have no value.

 

[Freodin]

My caring about something doesn't give that something any more value.

Why, yes, it does. That's what "value" is. It is how much someone - SOMEONE - values something.

There isn't such a thing as "inherent value".

 

[renniks]

That is simply not true. I cannot understand the way Christians seem to have a blind spot about why things matter to people who are not themselves.

It’s like your saying if something does not matter to you it cannot matter to other people either.

My wife and son matter to me more than anything else: you not being able to understand that is mind numbing.

Matter to you, yes. But if you are just in a pointless existence from nowhere to nowhere nothing really matters in any real sense. Just fizz in a bottle....

 

[Freodin]

Matter to you, yes. But if you are just in a pointless existence from nowhere to nowhere nothing really matters in any real sense. Just fizz in a bottle....

Just for clarification: what the heck does "matters in any real sense" mean? What's the "real sense" here?

 

[renniks]

This is what I mean. The lack of empathy to actually ask why people are important is mind boggling.

You misunderstand. People are very important, because they have inherent value being made in God's image. But if we are just accidents, what value can we have?

 

[honey badger]

In order to be considered a Christian by the operators and moderators of this forum it is necessary to subscribe to the tenets of the Nicene Creed.
CF Statement of Faith | Christian Forums

well if you go look at it you will find it to be a bunch of verses .... i believe every verse in all 66 books which includes them ... its just i have not made them fit into a religion by applying my own perception to their meaning ....

 

[renniks]

Just for clarification: what the heck does "matters in any real sense" mean? What's the "real sense" here?

Do we affect anything, do we change the world in some way? Do our lives matter? Not if we are the product of blind causation. Is it enough to say we existed? No, the heart of man longs to make a lasting mark because he made at least some good choices. Not because the universe carved him out and forced him to act exactly as he did, just another tiny piece of a pointless machine that exists for no particular reason.

 

[Freodin]

well if you go look at it you will find it to be a bunch of verses .... i believe every verse in all 66 books which includes them ... its just i have not made them fit into a religion by applying my own perception to their meaning ....

Well... I guess this approach would be up to the mods to evaluate.

But it amuses me to find just another of the, erm, "theists" strawmen showing up: "What you all do is religion. But I don't. I just believe, have faith, have a relationship with the divine, etc."

 

[Freodin]

Do we affect anything, do we change the world in some way?

We... don't? That's a rather strange view. Especially if you take that as a meaning of "matters"... when you consider that no Christian affects or changes the world in any way. It's all set by God.

Do our lives matter? Not if we are the product of blind causation. Is it enough to say we existed?

That's just repeating what you stated before. It doesn't answer my question: what does it mean to "matter in a real sense"?

No, the heart of man longs to make a lasting mark because he made at least some good choices. Not because the universe carved him out and forced him to act exactly as he did, just another tiny piece of a pointless machine that exists for no particular reason.

Ah, so it has to "exist for a particular reason" to "matter in a real sense"? But then... a "particular reason" cannot exist for a "particular reason" without going into this "infinity regression" that Christian apologets so abhor. So... existence does "ultimately" not matter.

 

[honey badger]

Not so. It shows that some Christians are unable to put themselves into the shoes of another person.

i know exactly what shoes you walk in, its called confusion as in being double minded, also spoken of as a deep sleep likened to being in a grave or a wondering in a wilderness caught between two mountains etc etc etc

 

[Ken-1122]

your leaders are those who came before you voicing opinions you agree with ...

A lot of those people who voice opinions I agree with are Christian!

 

[honey badger]

Well... I guess this approach would be up to the mods to evaluate.

But it amuses me to find just another of the, erm, "theists" strawmen showing up: "What you all do is religion. But I don't. I just believe, have faith, have a relationship with the divine, etc."

all you have is an opinion with nothing behind it but your own ego ... and why instead of dialogue ( for what its worth) all you try to do in your posts is a vain attempt to belittle me by name calling and accusation, and the reason for this is i have offended your belief system ...

 

[Larniavc]

Matter to you, yes. But if you are just in a pointless existence from nowhere to nowhere nothing really matters in any real sense. Just fizz in a bottle....

That is simplify not true. Because I can only ever experience what I experience the only things that can ever be meaningful from my perspective are the things which I find meaningful.

Any meaning or lack of meaning independent of my own existence can only be imagined.

So for me meaning exists and only in reference to my own existence.

 

[honey badger]

A lot of those people who voice opinions I agree with are Christian!

what of it ... we are not the sum of our thoughts, but what sums our thoughts up ...

 

[FreeinChrist]

ADVISOR HAT

This thread is closed for staff review. There is too much flaming and this is not Christian Apolgetics. ​

 

[HARK!]

MOD HAT ON

DUE TO MULTIPLE RULE VIOLATIONS

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