At least 3 children and 3 adults killed in Nashville private Christian elementary school shooting; shooter killed by police

[BPPLEE]

THese effects also apply to unarmed defenders (like teachers) in that less capable attackers are easier to defend against. It's also really hard to stab your way through a locked classroom door, even a glass one, where as a gun is much more effective at breaching those kinds of defense.

What do you have next? What about our defense against baseball bats? How do we defend small children from a ripped dude and his fists?

Of course a knife is less effective than a firearm. What do I have next? Probably IEDs if I had to guess. But this is really pointless you’re simply not going to be able to prevent criminals from getting firearms even if you pass restrictive laws. We are going to have to do a better job of protecting our schools. I think @RDKirk put it well in an earlier post

 

[Hans Blaster]

I'm not particularly eager to see schools turned into machine gun nests, but I think you're being unrealistic if you think it would be "much easier" to remove weapons from America than to put guards into schools.

They already tried that "guards in schools" thing in response to some prior tragedy. The whole "school resource officer" thing is the product of that "effort". As we know, their effectiveness during actual attacks is limited, they are expensive, and they often spend their time mostly looking for students to arrest.

SROs also do nothing to prevent mass shooting events in other places where they have occurred. Public and semi-public places.

If we had a problem with school bus grenade attacks what would be the best response: replace all buses with armored versions that resist grenade blasts (and have unopenable windows) and still not protect against grenade attacks at outdoor parks, lines outside sporting events, and funerals; OR, should we ban grenades? (This may be a bad example as we have already made grenades illegal.)

The answer is pretty obvious, make it harder to own and possess the mass shooters weapon of choice.

 

[BPPLEE]

They already tried that "guards in schools" thing in response to some prior tragedy. The whole "school resource officer" thing is the product of that "effort". As we know, their effectiveness during actual attacks is limited, they are expensive, and they often spend their time mostly looking for students to arrest.

SROs also do nothing to prevent mass shooting events in other places where they have occurred. Public and semi-public places.

If we had a problem with school bus grenade attacks what would be the best response: replace all buses with armored versions that resist grenade blasts (and have unopenable windows) and still not protect against grenade attacks at outdoor parks, lines outside sporting events, and funerals; OR, should we ban grenades? (This may be a bad example as we have already made grenades illegal.)

The answer is pretty obvious, make it harder to own and possess the mass shooters weapon of choice.

Do you have a certain firearm in mind or do you just want it to be more difficult to obtain any firearm? And what do you propose about the people who already have them?

 

[RDKirk]

Culpability is mainly a legal idea. Responsibility is much more philosophically broad.

We can consider a person morally responsible without making them legally culpable. Even moreso a society.

That is still nonsense.

 

[RDKirk]

Less efficient = Fewer deaths

Stab are wounds less likely to be fatal than a round coming out of an AR15 or similar "assault style" weapon.

Gunshot victims require much more blood and are more likely to die than other trauma patients

In a new analysis of data submitted to Maryland's state trauma registry from 2005 to 2017, Johns Hopkins Medicine researchers found that gunshot victims are approximately five times more likely to require blood transfusions, they require 10 times more blood units and are 14 times more likely to...

medicalxpress.com

Which leaves me and my knife helpless to the home invaders and their guns.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Do you have a certain firearm in mind or do you just want it to be more difficult to obtain any firearm? And what do you propose about the people who already have them?

You don't know the popular weapon type for mass shootings these days?

 

[rambot]

Spending money sending aid to Ukraine takes priority over protecting our school children

Yeah. Let's pretend that before any aid was sent to Ukraine, gun violence wasn't a problem in American school and that your government wanted to make fundamental changes.

Kinda disgusting to do that, IMHO. You could have went with the billion dollars in oil subsidies given years; you could have suggested a 1.5% cut of the DOD budget.

But instead you chose to undermine your countries support of another when your country's sworn enemy for 70years invades them.

 

[RDKirk]

They already tried that "guards in schools" thing in response to some prior tragedy. The whole "school resource officer" thing is the product of that "effort". As we know, their effectiveness during actual attacks is limited, they are expensive, and they often spend their time mostly looking for students to arrest.

SROs also do nothing to prevent mass shooting events in other places where they have occurred. Public and semi-public places.

If you assert armed guards are ineffective based on the shootings that have occurred, then I can equally assert they have been effective each day in all the hundreds of thousands of places armed guards are used that have not had mass shootings.

Clearly the Secret Service, for one, disagrees with you about the fecklessness of armed security.

The answer is pretty obvious, make it harder to own and possess the mass shooters weapon of choice.

You can't put that genie back into the bottle in the US. That's why that is no answer at all.

 

[RDKirk]

At this point, I think it's more "we have no evidence of a problem with the school" rather than "we have evidence it was not a problem with the school". But given the earlier description of a 'manifesto', one would think the police would have more clarity about motive.

If the manifesto lays points explicitly to something other than the school, that would be evidence that it was not a problem with the school. The school may simply have been the most accessible target that provided the easiest mass casualties before she could be killed by police.

 

[RDKirk]

People in other countries don't, by and large.

Life in their countries doesn't make people crazy.

Life in the US makes people crazy.

 

[DaveISBA]

View attachment 329455

This dude's comment about "thoughts and prayers" makes a mockery of the lives that were wasted. He's part of the problem, as are all who have glorified guns as if their faith depended on them. Shame on him and those on the Christian right that support the worship and proliferation of guns, eschewing any regulation that might help.

People who deplore the ownership and use of guns obviously must live in high income safe neighborhoods while others who live in the poor crime infested areas like I once did with roving, gun toting gangs, car jackings, home invasions, danger in just about every corner and when you need the cops they're only a half hour away if they show up at all... you better have acess to a gun which for those reasons everyone I knew did!

 

[Hans Blaster]

If you assert armed guards are ineffective based on the shootings that have occurred, then I can equally assert they have been effective each day in all the hundreds of thousands of places armed guards are used that have not had mass shootings.

There has been a distinct lack of bear attacks at my house while I've had an orange light bulb installed by my door. Therefore orange light bulbs must be a good preventer of bear attacks.

Clearly the Secret Service, for one, disagrees with you about the fecklessness of armed security.

Face meet palm.

You can't put that genie back into the bottle in the US. That's why that is no answer at all.

You don't have to. Many of the recent mass shooters (particularly the "famous incidents") have involved recent purchases. Banning the manufacture and import of certain weapons would stop certain would-be shooters or at least make it more difficult. Likewise with tighter purchase requirements. If that had happened 5 years ago, this attack would have not gone down this way (or not at all).

 

[public hermit]

People who deplore the ownership and use of guns obviously must live in high income safe neighborhoods while others who live in the poor crime infested areas like I once did with roving, gun toting gangs, car jackings, home invasions, danger in just about every corner and when you need the cops they're only a half hour away if they show up at all... you better have acess to a gun which for those reasons everyone I knew did!

You're assuming too much, at least if you're referring to my post. Ownership and use is one thing. Glorification of guns and the refusal to consider potentially beneficial gun regulation is another. If you add "thoughts and prayers" to the latter, it's just grotesque.

 

[BPPLEE]

You don't know the popular weapon type for mass shootings these days?

You’re probably going to say the AR15 or assault weapons but actually it’s handguns. Handguns are the most common weapon type used in mass shootings in the United States, with a total of 161 different handguns being used in 111 incidents between 1982 and March 2023. These figures are calculated from a total of 141 reported cases over this period, meaning handguns are involved in about 78 percent of mass shootings. (Source Guns used in mass shootings U.S. 2023 | Statista)

 

[BPPLEE]

Yeah. Let's pretend that before any aid was sent to Ukraine, gun violence wasn't a problem in American school and that your government wanted to make fundamental changes.

Kinda disgusting to do that, IMHO. You could have went with the billion dollars in oil subsidies given years; you could have suggested a 1.5% cut of the DOD budget.

But instead you chose to undermine your countries support of another when your country's sworn enemy for 70years invades them.

Let’s pretend that NATO nations of whom Ukraine is in their backyards paid a fair share of the expense, then we wouldn’t be out of $115 billion but actually this is off topic and more than a mere mention of the subject needs to take place in another thread

 

[DaveISBA]

What we know so far​

• At least three children and three adults are dead after a shooting Monday at the Covenant School, a private Christian elementary school in Nashville, Tennessee, that teaches preschool through 6th grade, police said.
• The shooter, who was identified as a 28-year-old Nashville woman [ETA: apparently a trans man, having adopted a male name and pronouns], was killed during gunfire with police, authorities said. ... identity and motive is yet to be confirmed.

One thing we as Christians can take solace in are that those young children and Christian adults have entered into the joys of Heaven! 2 Corinthians 5:8 "To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord"!!! While the mass shooter, I would venture to say, is being tormented in the horrors of hell and to no avail but with all their heart regretting their life's choices!

 

[BPPLEE]

You're assuming too much, at least if you're referring to my post. Ownership and use is one thing. Glorification of guns and the refusal to consider potentially beneficial gun regulation is another. If you add "thoughts and prayers" to the latter, it's just grotesque.

You haven’t provided any examples of these potentially beneficial gun regulations that I’ve seen. You said I don’t support them but I never saw what you were asking for support of.

 

[DaveISBA]

You haven’t provided any examples of these potentially beneficial gun regulations that I’ve seen. You said I don’t support them but I never saw what you were asking for support of.

Don't think you'll see this reported on CNN!
"A 2013 review of the literature by the National Research Council found that “almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million.” At the time of the 2013 report, there were nineteen surveys on the frequency of defensive gun uses. All found that defensive gun uses were prevalent. The vast majority of these surveys indicated that there are at least a million annual defensive gun uses. Of these, the most reliable survey found at least 2.1 million defensive"

Guns used more for self-defense than crimes

The latest research confirms that guns are used more in self-defense than they are in crimes.

www.washingtontimes.com

I wonder how many of these people would be dead now if not for the use of a fire arm for self defence?

 

[BPPLEE]

A really talented surgeon can kill you with a paper clip!

I can kill you with the ignore feature.

 

[BPPLEE]

Oh nice, we got to the pretending all weapons are equally lethal part.

Not equal but still lethal