At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision Discussion Thread (2) - Please Vote in Poll Thread

[KomissarSteve]

Well then time to get out there and teach and exemplify good .

We have an opportunity to do so here. The way the poll looks, a lot of self-proclaimed Christians are passing up on that opportunity.

Also a good time to pray for direct intervention of Our Lord into these and all matters . Nothing is impossible with Him...

No, but by the same token, God gives us reason and a conscience for a reason: so that we could use them, and wouldn't have to count on supernatural intervention to solve our problems.

 

[SunMessenger]

We have an opportunity to do so here. The way the poll looks, a lot of self-proclaimed Christians are passing up on that opportunity.



No, but by the same token, God gives us reason and a conscience for a reason: so that we could use them, and wouldn't have to count on supernatural intervention to solve our problems.

We must live our lives and exemplify as Our Holy Spirit directs us to do. Christianity is a collection of individuals whose diversity is centered on one God and Our love of Him . Miracles are not supernatural in the strict sense of the word they are promised and accepted and are only from God. We do not test God as He does not want that. He wants us to use that free will He has given us to bring ourselves closer to Him. We do that in many ways which include creating places like this. This is far from the only way. It is one small means by which to reach out to all in need and not spend that precious time in argument or discourse. We have indeed stated our opinions and that is good. Now it is up to God and how He chooses to use Erwin and this place to proceed . It is no longer up to us other than to pray and suggest. I have faith all will work out fine.

God Bless Always...

 

[KomissarSteve]

We must live our lives and exemplify as Our Holy Spirit directs us to do. Christianity is a collection of individuals whose diversity is centered on one God and Our love of Him .

And yet we are not meant to be an insular group, either. The command is to go out of our comfort zone and into the world.

Miracles are not supernatural in the strict sense of the word they are promised and accepted and are only from God. We do not test God as He does not want that. He wants us to use that free will He has given us to bring ourselves closer to Him.

Then let us use our free will to make a Christ-like statement to the non-Christians here. At this rate, the message we are sending is exclusive and altogether contrary to Christ's message.

Now it is up to God and how He chooses to use Erwin and this place to proceed . It is no longer up to us other than to pray and suggest. I have faith all will work out fine.

This seems like a tremendous cop-out to me. God gives us free will - and yet, since God is in control, everything is going to turn out okay with this site?

I don't really think that's how it works. I think that God gives us free will, and if we choose to abandon the resources He has given us - again, our reason and our consciences - then He will not hesitate to let us live with the fruits that we reap until we have learned our lesson.

 

[MeekOne]

Christians should do this:
1) Love God
2) love others
3) Go, and make disciples

Antagonistic/factious man, always do this:
1) Operate on self interest.
2) Gain and use power to further self interests.
3) Complicate, justify, complicate, under the vail of improvement, but in the spirit of destruction.

Titus is one of three pastoral epistles. These letters were the guide to early churches on matters of operation.

This site is not a church, thus all the instructions in these letters would not apply here.

This one does apply, IMHO.
Titus 3:10-11
There should be a place for Christians to escape the factious. There should be a place for Christians to witness.

Never mix Christian and factious in leadership.
My definitions of Christian and factious has worked for me many times.

Titus 3:10-11 says, “Reject a factious man after a first and second warning, knowing that such a man is perverted and is sinning, being self-condemned.” NASU

Excellent post!

Man has to ask himself does he want to do what is right and true and live according to what Christ teaches. Or what he has been doing for hundreds of years...ask himself can it be done and how will it effect me?

This is not a church, but it is in essence the body of Christ which is just another name for a church and it is so because it contains many believers. Christ did reach out to sinners, but He also took time to be with His deciples and people who wanted to live according to His teachings. Of course we are to reach out to unbelievers, but we also must have a place of our own. I voted #2 because I can see #1 letting CF head down a path that it will never be able to recover from. If pagans, unbelievers, athiests, agnostics, etc...are allowed to run the forum, then it cannot be called a Christian forum. Its that simple.

Vote #2​

 

[SunMessenger]

And yet we are not meant to be an insular group, either. The command is to go out of our comfort zone and into the world.



Then let us use our free will to make a Christ-like statement to the non-Christians here. At this rate, the message we are sending is exclusive and altogether contrary to Christ's message.



This seems like a tremendous cop-out to me. God gives us free will - and yet, since God is in control, everything is going to turn out okay with this site?

I don't really think that's how it works. I think that God gives us free will, and if we choose to abandon the resources He has given us - again, our reason and our consciences - then He will not hesitate to let us live with the fruits that we reap until we have learned our lesson.

What is your lesson? I do not understand why you do not trust in the suggestions already made including your own. Our power to control these matters is limited on earth and yet all powerful when we have faith in God to intervene. You have suggested and yet you seem to feel doom and gloom. I do not understand doom and gloom and I know that Our Lord is in control of matters. Praying and trusting Him is not a cop out. Trying to do it all ourselves and not giving it to Him is futile frustration and that is what I am sensing in your post. God will never forsake us and if that is coping out in your eyes then sorry I choose to trust God and His ways not ours.

Sun

 

[KomissarSteve]

Excellent post!

Man has to ask himself does he want to do what is right and true and live according to what Christ teaches. Or what he has been doing for hundreds of years...ask himself can it be done and how will it effect me?

How dare you attempt put my God into a box by baselessly associating His Word with your own narrow agenda.

 

[MeekOne]

How dare you attempt put my God into a box by baselessly associating His Word with your own narrow agenda.

What exactly to you mean by "putting God in a box?" Explain yourself.

 

[KomissarSteve]

What is your lesson?

Not MY lesson; God's lesson to us, should we choose to ignore Christ's commandment to us, which will be that claiming to be a Christian and yet not loving our neighbors as ourselves and SHOWING that love through our actions only serves to distance Christians from the rest of society and make us appear to be hypocrites.

I do not understand why you do not trust in the suggestions already made including your own. Our power to control these matters is limited on earth and yet all powerful when we have faith in God to intervene. You have suggested and yet you seem to feel doom and gloom. I do not understand doom and gloom and I know that Our Lord is in control of matters.

He is, but He also gives us the power to act in a self-defeating manner, does He not? That's why He gives us reason and conscience - so that we can discern between folly and righteousness. I fear that many CF members have chosen to ignore this ability.

Praying and trusting Him is not a cop out.

No, but assuming He doesn't intend for us to use the resources that He has already blessed us with certainly is.

 

[sparklecat]

Thats right. You just hit the nail right on the head. It grew because of the way it was and not the way it is. Thank You for that wisdom !

Sun

Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.
- Edward Abbey




As CF was previously, was it the embodiment of ideals that we should want to grow and spread?


I didn't find it so.

 

[KomissarSteve]

What exactly to you mean by "putting God in a box?" Explain yourself.

You say that "Man has to ask himself does he want to do what is right and true and live according to what Christ teaches. Or what he has been doing for hundreds of years...ask himself can it be done and how will it effect me?"

The clear implication is that only those who choose Option 2 are doing what is right and true, and are trusting in God. I absolutely and thoroughly reject such a notion; God is not such a small, simple, worldly being that you can divide those who trust in Him and those who do not between these two options.

I don't know what God you worship, but mine is not so weak that He requires us to isolate ourselves from those who believe otherwise. You say that "we need a place of our own." I contend otherwise. I believe that that is precisely the last thing a Christian needs.

 

[SunMessenger]

Originally Posted by sparklecat
Growth for the sake of growth is the ideology of the cancer cell.
- Edward Abbey

Perhaps correct if that was all I said . It was not. Read closer. Who is Edward Abbey ? Excuse my ignorance but I am not familiar with this man.

As CF was previously, was it the embodiment of ideals that we should want to grow and spread?


I didn't find it so.

You have a right to that opinion and it is noted.

 

[MeekOne]

You say that "Man has to ask himself does he want to do what is right and true and live according to what Christ teaches. Or what he has been doing for hundreds of years...ask himself can it be done and how will it effect me?"

Yes, absolutely.

The clear implication is that only those who choose Option 2 are doing what is right and true, and are trusting in God.

No, you didn't get it clearly. I wasn't talking about the poll options at that point, I was talking about man's options. Of the two poll options, #2 is best, yes. However, the options could be better. I give you that.

I absolutely and thoroughly reject such a notion;

The notion that man has options to live by or the poll option #2?

God is not such a small, simple, worldly being that you can divide those who trust in Him and those who do not between these two options.

We cannot judge, but the Lord will according to His gospel one day. However, this little poll will not be an issue then. Let's keep it in perspective. We are talking about who will be running CF, which is supposed to be a Christian site. How Christians can be so confused by this is amazing.

I don't know what God you worship,

Then I will tell you: He is the God of Abraham, Isaac, Noah, Job, Jacob, David and Moses:

Nicene Creed

We believe in (Romans 10: 8-10; 1 John 4: 15)
ONE God, (Deuteronomy 6: 4, Ephesians 4: 6)
Father (Matthew 6: 9)
Almighty, (Exodus 6: 3)
Maker of Heaven and Earth, (Genesis 1: 1)
and of all things visible and invisible. (Colossians 1: 15-16)

And in ONE Lord Jesus Christ, (Acts 11: 17)
Son of God, (Mathew 14: 33; 16: 16)
Only-Begotten, (John 1: 18; 3: 16)
Begotten of the Father before all ages. (John 1: 2)
Light from Light; (Psalm 27: 1; John 8: 12; Matthew 17: 2,5)
True God from True God; (John 17: 1-5)
Begotten, not made; (John 1: 18)
of one essence with the Father (John 10: 30)
through whom all things were made; (Hebrews 1: 1-2)
Who for us men and for our salvation (1 Timothy 2: 4-5)
came down from heaven, (John 6: 33,35)
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary (Luke 1: 35)
and became man. (John 1: 14)
And He was crucified for us (Mark 15: 25; 1 Corinthians 15: 3)
under Pontius Pilate, (John 19: 6)
suffered, (Mark 8: 31)
and was buried. (Luke 23: 53; 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
And on the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures, (Luke 24: 1 1 Corinthians 15: 4)
and ascended into heaven, (Luke 24: 51; Acts 1: 10)
and sits at the right hand of the Father; (Mark 16: 19; Acts 7: 55)
and He shall come again with glory (Matthew 24: 27)
to judge the living and the dead; (Acts 10: 42; 2 Timothy 4: 1)
Whose Kingdom shall have no end. (2 Peter 1: 11)

And in the Holy Spirit, (John 14: 26)
Lord, (Acts 5: 3-4)
Giver of Life, (Genesis 1: 2)
Who proceeds from the Father [and the Son]; (John 15: 26)
Who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified; (Matthew 3: 16-17)
Who spoke through the prophets. (1 Samuel 19: 20; Ezekiel 11: 5,13)

In one, (Matthew 16: 18)
holy, (1 Peter 2: 5,9)
catholic*, (Mark 16: 15)
and apostolic Church. (Acts 2: 42; Ephesians 2: 19-22)

but mine is not so weak that He requires us to isolate ourselves from those who believe otherwise.

I never said that God was weak, you did.

You say that "we need a place of our own." I contend otherwise. I believe that that is precisely the last thing a Christian needs.

Then lets all live in hell together.

 

[Seeker of the Truth]

Well, here's the numbers (well, a graph):

Brough to you by: alexa.com

 

[SunMessenger]

You say that "Man has to ask himself does he want to do what is right and true and live according to what Christ teaches. Or what he has been doing for hundreds of years...ask himself can it be done and how will it effect me?"

The clear implication is that only those who choose Option 2 are doing what is right and true, and are trusting in God. I absolutely and thoroughly reject such a notion; God is not such a small, simple, worldly being that you can divide those who trust in Him and those who do not between these two options.

I don't know what God you worship, but mine is not so weak that He requires us to isolate ourselves from those who believe otherwise. You say that "we need a place of our own." I contend otherwise. I believe that that is precisely the last thing a Christian needs.

By limiting God you put Him in sort of a box. Using the words your God and my God as if you can possess Him . Neither is correct as you know. I am sure it was not meant .

There is only One God . Our God for each and every one of us. Be careful before you throw that word hypocrite around as it is judgmental. Perhaps Matthew did use it frequently but He was attempting to clarify to the masses of people who would read for generations . Here that is not needed.

Sun

 

[KomissarSteve]

No, you didn't get it clearly. I wasn't talking about the poll options at that point, I was talking about man's options.

And I'm supposed to believe that you weren't making an associating between choosing to disobey God and choosing option 1, or choosing to obey God and choosing option 2?

We cannot judge, but the Lord will according to His gospel one day. However, this little poll will not be an issue then. Let's keep it in perspective. We are talking about who will be running CF, which is supposed to be a Christian site. How Christians can be so confused by this is amazing.

Again, I'm not concerned with the poll; I'm concerned with the attitude you've just expressed here - that the only way we can be a Christian site is if we restrict non-Christians from some or all of it. I find that to be a distinctly un-Christian notion; I believe that the only way we can call ourselves a Christian forum in good conscience is to go out of our way to welcome non-Christians, interact with them, and lead by example.

Then I will tell you: He is the God of Abraham, Jacob and Moses:

I somehow doubt it, if the will of the God you worship is somehow so contingent upon Christians separating themselves from non-Christians.

I never said that God was weak, you did.

I said that your depiction of God is one of weakness, and I think that reflects a relative weakness in faith. Why do you find non-Christians to be so threatening that you feel CF must have forums exclusively for Christians?

Then lets all live in hell together.

I'd rather not, thank you. I'd much rather be a part of building Christ's Kingdom on Earth.

 

[KomissarSteve]

By limiting God you put Him in sort of a box. Using the words your God and my God as if you can possess Him . Neither is correct as you know. I am sure it was not meant .

Correct, that is not at all what I meant. What I was pointing out is that her conception of God and mine are evidently very different. Mine, for example, is not so weak that His Will must be carried out by an insular group of believers.

There is only One God . Our God for each and every one of us. Be careful before you throw that word hypocrite around as it is judgmental. Perhaps Matthew did use it frequently but He was attempting to clarify to the masses of people who would read for generations . Here that is not needed.

I think it's very much needed here. The hypocrisy among the conservative Christian members here is palpable.

 

[Trish1947]

The process of leading a person to Christ mostly happens between two people interacting with questions being asked and answered. Or they hear the message being preached by one individual. It wouldnt be that way here as far as evangelism..it would become because of so many differing opinions and interpretations, different personalities, and people wanting to get their two cents in, a gang up style of presenting the Gospel's truths, totally confusing the seeking individual. I never looked at CF as church, pastoring and such on these boards. If any of this does occur, it more than likely if ever, happened thru PM's, because the person needs and wants just one person to talk to. I'm not saying it can't happen, but the internet is a whole different setting.

 

[sparklecat]

Who is Edward Abbey ? Excuse my ignorance but I am not familiar with this man.

Couldn't tell you without looking it up. What you said just made me think of the quote (I hadn't read far enough in the thread yet to see you qualifying your statement).

 

[SunMessenger]

Couldn't tell you without looking it up. What you said just made me think of the quote (I hadn't read far enough in the thread yet to see you qualifying your statement).

Got it thanks for understanding...

 

[KomissarSteve]

The process of leading a person to Christ mostly happens between two people interacting with questions being asked and answered.

I disagree. I believe that the bulk of the process of leading somebody to Christ occurs through leading by example. Only then will the non-Christians find you credible enough to start asking you questions about the source of your self-assuredness and personal moral uprightness.