At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision Discussion Thread (2) - Please Vote in Poll Thread

[KomissarSteve]

Got it thanks for understanding...

To answer your question, he was a late 19th century American author and essayist; I forgot what he wrote, but he's considered to be one of the great authors of the period.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

Working as used in that sentence is operating and functioning within parameters which result in a positive flow of ideas and safety with a capability to improve and continue within those same safe parameters.

That is what working meant for me in that sentence...

Sun

Gotcha. Well, I and many others would contend that CF was not "working" prior to the 777 reforms. Now...is CF "working" now? That remains to be seen.


I'm not sure where to post this due to their being multiple threads/polls on this...so here goes.

I have seen a little discussion on splitting CF into two sites. One open and one not basically. This would be a mistake in my view. It is segregation. There would be even more admin/mod overhead. There would be a whole new crop of issues such as "who is fit to post on what site?"

Those are my initial impressions.

 

[MeekOne]

And I'm supposed to believe that you weren't making an associating between choosing to disobey God and choosing option 1, or choosing to obey God and choosing option 2?

Relatively, yes.

Again, I'm not concerned with the poll; I'm concerned with the attitude you've just expressed here - that the only way we can be a Christian site is if we restrict non-Christians from some or all of it.

Frankly, I'm concerned with your attitude to let any athiest, pagan, agnostic, etc...to ruin the body of Christ here at CF by letting them promote their beliefs upon Christians...the bible says to guard our hearts, to put on the full armour of Christ...why would it say that if we weren't supposed to protect ourselves from something? The evil one is running to and fro, and he's running right into CF at this time.

I find that to be a distinctly un-Christian notion;

You are entitled to your beliefs.

I believe that the only way we can call ourselves a Christian forum in good conscience is to go out of our way to welcome non-Christians, interact with them, and lead by example.

I'd be the first one to evangelize to one of them if they would let me.

I somehow doubt it,

Now, you are going to tell me Who my God is. pffft

if the will of the God you worship is somehow so contingent upon Christians separating themselves from non-Christians.

Again, guard your hearts...armour of Christ...see a correlation there?

I said that your depiction of God is one of weakness, and I think that reflects a relative weakness in faith. Why do you find non-Christians to be so threatening that you feel CF must have forums exclusively for Christians?

Its more complicated that you can see obviously.

I'd rather not, thank you. I'd much rather be a part of building Christ's Kingdom on Earth.

That's good to hear.

 

[MeekOne]

The process of leading a person to Christ mostly happens between two people interacting with questions being asked and answered. Or they hear the message being preached by one individual. It wouldnt be that way here as far as evangelism..it would become because of so many differing opinions and interpretations, different personalities, and people wanting to get their two cents in, a gang up style of presenting the Gospel's truths, totally confusing the seeking individual. I never looked at CF as church, pastoring and such on these boards. If any of this does occur, it more than likely if ever, happened thru PM's, because the person needs and wants just one person to talk to. I'm not saying it can't happen, but the internet is a whole different setting.

Intelligent post.

 

[MeekOne]

I disagree. I believe that the bulk of the process of leading somebody to Christ occurs through leading by example. Only then will the non-Christians find you credible enough to start asking you questions about the source of your self-assuredness and personal moral uprightness.

The Word clearly indicates you receive the gospel by hearing it. Did you not hear the gospel? Have you read the Word? Or did you receive the gospel of Christ because someone was nice to you and let you in their house and gave you dinner and let you leave without mentioning Christ to you?

 

[Seeker of the Truth]

Why can't Christian Forums get back to it's original mission of uniting every Christian?

Why must we unite unbelievers, haters, etc. AND Christians?

What about not yoking ourselves with non-believers?

God forbid we should stop talking to Atheists, deists, etc. But allowing them to rule over us? This is [not Sparta] madness!

II Corinthians 6:14

"Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers: for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? or what communion hath light with darkness?"

Let's go back to the old CF, please. A more positive, uplifting, encouraging place FOR CHRISTIANS.

To Atheists, deists, etc.:

I'm sorry you feel rejected in a place that is comprised of CHRISTIANS. What's so hard to understand? If I went into an Atheist forum, I'm pretty sure I'd be shunned for being a Christian...

I honestly don't get it...either you want this place to be full of Christians (remember, Christians Forums?) or full of the World.

 

[Trish1947]

I disagree. I believe that the bulk of the process of leading somebody to Christ occurs through leading by example. Only then will the non-Christians find you credible enough to start asking you questions about the source of your self-assuredness and personal moral uprightness.

Leading by example? I don't know you and you don't know me, again because of a internet setting. I don't want anybody looking at me when I'm trying to tell them about the One we need to see. People that look at people can always be disappointed in what they see. But are never disappointed when they see Jesus.

 

[MeekOne]

Why can't Christian Forums get back to it's original mission of uniting every Christian?

Why must we unite unbelievers, haters, etc. AND Christians?

What about not yoking ourselves with non-believers?

God forbid we should stop talking to Atheists, deists, etc. But allowing them to rule over us? This is [not Sparta] madness!

II Corinthians 6:14

"Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers: for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? or what communion hath light with darkness?"

Let's go back to the old CF, please. A more positive, uplifting, encouraging place FOR CHRISTIANS.

To Atheists, deists, etc.:

I'm sorry you feel rejected in a place that is comprised of CHRISTIANS. What's so hard to understand? If I went into an Atheist forum, I'm pretty sure I'd be shunned for being a Christian...

I honestly don't get it...either you want this place to be full of Christians (remember, Christians Forums?) or full of the World.

Another intelligent post!

Leading by example? I don't know you and you don't know me, again because of a internet setting. I don't want anybody looking at me when I'm trying to tell them about the One we need to see. People that look at people can always be disappointed in what they see. But are never disappointed when they see Jesus.

Another intelligent post!

 

[SunMessenger]

Gotcha. Well, I and many others would contend that CF was not "working" prior to the 777 reforms. Now...is CF "working" now? That remains to be seen.


I'm not sure where to post this due to their being multiple threads/polls on this...so here goes.

I have seen a little discussion on splitting CF into two sites. One open and one not basically. This would be a mistake in my view. It is segregation. There would be even more admin/mod overhead. There would be a whole new crop of issues such as "who is fit to post on what site?"

Those are my initial impressions.

If you go over to the thread on option three you will see someplace in the center of it much conversation on the separate yet equal system. Those posts were very interesting and I even went into great detail about that system there also. The link to that thread is here...

http://www.christianforums.com/t5794...look-like.html

This thread is also extremely important and interesting also with very constructive suggestions...

http://www.christianforums.com/t5800...o-run-cf-.html

 

[sparklecat]

I'm sorry you feel rejected in a place that is comprised of CHRISTIANS. What's so hard to understand? If I went into an Atheist forum, I'm pretty sure I'd be shunned for being a Christian...

That would not mean it was right of them to do so to you.

 

[*Starlight*]

Let's go back to the old CF, please. A more positive, uplifting, encouraging place FOR CHRISTIANS.

The old CF was uniting some Christians, not all Christians. Only after the changes it became possible for all Christians to post together with no one being unfairly excluded.

 

[MeekOne]

That would not mean it was right of them to do so to you.

This is true sparklecat, but that's not what CF was doing before. We have a place for apologetics and debate, always have.

 

[WalksWithChrist]

If you go over to the thread on option three you will see someplace in the center of it much conversation on the separate yet equal system. Those posts were very interesting and I even went into great detail about that system there also. The link to that thread is here...

http://www.christianforums.com/t5794...look-like.html

This thread is also extremely important and interesting also with very constructive suggestions...

[URL="http://www.christianforums.com/t5800...o-run-cf-.html"]http://www.christianforums.com/t5800...o-run-cf-.html[/URL]

Thanks. I'll take another look at that first one.

I also wanted to clarify my last post a bit. There have been areas of CF that have been relatively unaffected by the 777 changes. They were working before and after the changes. I just wanted to say it is good to see that the disfunction of CF doesn't apply to all areas!

 

[sparklecat]

This is true sparklecat, but that's not what CF was doing before. We have a place for apologetics and debate, always have.

Yes, we did. A place with maybe a dozen regular Christian posters, where we'd also get the occasional member who'd stop by to write a thread or six telling us we were wrong (and frequently, that we were fools and swine as well), and then disappear.

Of course, there were also the few Christian 'events' we were invited to in the form of fellowship threads in the CO areas and threads when people recalled that they could put in [OPEN] tags and it might be nice to do so.




We were tolerated. Not welcomed.

 

[SunMessenger]

Thanks. I'll take another look at that first one.

I also wanted to clarify my last post a bit. There have been areas of CF that have been relatively unaffected by the 777 changes. They were working before and after the changes. I just wanted to say it is good to see that the disfunction of CF doesn't apply to all areas!

For some reason the second link in your quote is truncated so I am posting it here again if you are interested. I think this thread is very important too.

Here...

http://www.christianforums.com/t5800270-should-erwin-sell-cf-if-he-has-no-time-to-run-cf-.html

 

[MeekOne]

Yes, we did. A place with maybe a dozen regular Christian posters, where we'd also get the occasional member who'd stop by to write a thread or six telling us we were wrong (and frequently, that we were fools and swine as well), and then disappear.

Of course, there were also the few Christian 'events' we were invited to in the form of fellowship threads in the CO areas and threads when people recalled that they could put in [OPEN] tags and it might be nice to do so.




We were tolerated. Not welcomed.

If this is indeed true, then Erwin should have changed the apologetics and debate forum somehow. If this is how you all were treated, then it IS wrong, and that area should have been improved. I do not believe the entire website should be uprooted and thrown into chaos because of a few who hurt your feelings. I'm sorry that they hurt your feelings, really I am.

 

[sparklecat]

If this is indeed true, then Erwin should have changed the apologetics and debate forum somehow. If this is how you all were treated, then it IS wrong, and that area should have been improved. I do not believe the entire website should be uprooted and thrown into chaos because of a few who hurt your feelings. I'm sorry that they hurt your feelings, really I am.

I don't think that the hurt feelings of the non-Christians was really the primary reason for these changes, anyway

 

[Seeker of the Truth]

That would not mean it was right of them to do so to you.

Probably not, but regardless, me going to an Atheist forum would require having certain motivations.

What's an Atheist's motivation for coming to CF?

If he/she wants to argue, then go away; nobody wants to argue. If he/she wants to learn about Christ, then I'd welcome you in open arms.

Again, what are your motivations?

 

[stranger]

Why can't Christian Forums get back to it's original mission of uniting every Christian

Because the site has set up enclaves of groups who believe they are th only ones who know what christianity is and they no longer are prepared to be reproved to scriipture in their beliefs... we know that they cannot all be right, and indeed the scripture shows that all are wrong , but by logic alone at most one sect/denomination could be right [and possibly none] ... there is thus no commitment to reproving all belief here to even that of scripture , let alone that of God's holy spirit which goes beyond that which can be writen as scripture ... men even remain sinners , not saints ,and yet presume to taech others and don priests robes as if they had all truth [yet the truth would cause them to abandon sin as leading nowhere]

Why must we unite unbelievers, haters, etc. AND Christians?

everyone was an unbeliever before they became a believer... so who are you to say who will come to belief before Jesus comes and who will lose belief by then... this is simply not the time to divde up men this way, the matter is still open , men will come to belief who were sinners, and become saints and yet you would now exclude them as sinners now???? You just didn't think it through ...

What about not yoking ourselves with non-believers?

Again , Jesus taught unbelievers and they became bellievers, it is not for you [or any siner] to judge who will believe by the time Jesus returns, for some it will be after this day and you have no right to jude them now for current unbelief [in fact you sinnby doing so], let aloe attempt to exclude them from discussion of the gospel here

God forbid we should stop talking to Atheists, deists, etc. But allowing them to rule over us? This is [not Sparta] madness!

It would indeed ne a mistake to introduce [false] democracy on the site on the basis of this deeply flawed undemocratic poll, not leat becauyse God does NOT operate on demcracy, but of His rule of love, a theocracy which most men do not obey, because as sinners men are unloving, breaking God' Law of Love, and so Jesus is not the Lord of sinners [despite what christians say] because sinners do not obey his command to love... so he is noy their lord at all , and says so -

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

[Grace is only offered to the House fo Israel and the House of Judah , read the ACTUAL new covenant of grace :- Heb 8:8-12 ]

II Corinthians 6:14
"Be not unequally yoked with unbelievers: for what fellowship have righteousness and iniquity? or what communion hath light with darkness?"

It is valid that the SAINTS can judge who will be unbelievers at esus return, for they are given all truth by God [John 16:13] , but it is far from OK for sinners to make that call ... which is exactly what will happen under option 2, thus causing the site to sin against many who will yet find belief in Jesus before his return... this then is an unscriptural poll with most evil outcome possible ... what is it doing here? [simply it is a bid for power over others by the few ,and is not being thrown in the garbage pail where it belongs]

Let's go back to the old CF, please. A more positive, uplifting, encouraging place FOR CHRISTIANS.

Option 1 is the closest to the old CF , not option 2, but really there are more options than this and thuis this vote is simply flawed because all possibilities are not offered as options,

I'm sorry you feel rejected in a place that is comprised of CHRISTIANS. What's so hard to understand? If I went into an Atheist forum, I'm pretty sure I'd be shunned for being a Christian...

You should feel ashamed , not sorry, because Jesus showed that one does not shun sinners, but talks with them... and sent his true followers AMONGST the gentiles with the message of the gospel, not to hide themselves away in a cliquish enclave ... outreach is NOT optioanl for christians, it is mandated by Jesus himself in the great commissio, and yet option2 will shut down outreach from the site ...

Equally many who do NOT believe in religion, do beleive in love ... and God is love , as scripture sates and Jesus showed ... thus many who reject divided christianity because it simply cannot be true [as it is divided, thus not the one truth of the holy spirit of God] , they neverytheless believe in God although they call it love, not God [because divided christianity has false images of God since it is not united, so 'God' has become an ambiguos word amd does not always stand for love within christianity, cannot i fact, logically, since the division of beliefs shows their untruth]

Thus many christians necessarily have false beliefs and may well benefit from the iinsghts of thsoe who love but do not like the ambiguous use of the word 'christian' ofr 'God' in divided religion ... the sinners outside christianity might thus teach those who think they are within it that sinning is unlovoingness and against Jesus and God's law of Love... thus those outside divided christianity may be closer to God than most within , Jesus simply does not recognise sinners who saty ininiquity until his return :-

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I honestly don't get it...either you want this place to be full of Christians (remember, Christians Forums?) or full of the World.

Try reading the scripture then, Jesus went out intothe worlkd to teach amongst unbelievers and seny his disciples to do likewise ... in fact those under the NEW covenant do NOT teach each other at all, so there is no basis for a site with only true followes of Jesus, were that even possible :-

Hebrews 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

This rather makes the point that most who call themselves christians do NOT obey Jesus and become saints, and so are no better [some would say worse] than those who admit that they do not yet know perfect love and all truth [john 16:13] ... thus in fact the saints made between now and Jesus' return may well be made up of loving people who were not believers NOW but whom God baptised in the future but before Jesus comes again ...

You just didn't think this through, and failed to read the scripture before making up your mind...

 

[Seeker of the Truth]

This is suppose to be a place of fellowship. This isn't suppose to be a place of outreach; it's suppose to be a place of fellowship.

Again, what are your motivations for being at CF?

I think you're forgetting the purpose of CF.