At Crossroads -- Cf's Vision Discussion Thread (2) - Please Vote in Poll Thread

[*Starlight*]

Again as stated before a rebuke would be seen as a flame.

Hi

What do you mean as rebuke? If a statement directed towards another person is rude, then it's wrong. But it's possible to tell someone that you disagree with them without being rude.

When a member is having issues they can act out of character and need councel and a non believer cannot provide Godly councel to a believer nor can a non believer lead another non believer to Christ and yes sometimes those things happen - i know because i was a mod here.

What does having a "M" icon and the ability to remove posts have to do with giving counsel to another person or leading them to Christ?

 

[Lindon Tinuviel]

I can only "back" what Gods word allows concerning the body of Christ.

We have to live in the world and tolerate the world but we dont have to "back" anything which is why some of us are expressing our concerns because we are responsible before God what we allow concerning the body. God tolerates sin in the world he doesnt "back" it though.

A non believer for the most part can see if something is a violation but when it comes to discussions between believers that judgment is impared because of the lack of the Spirit. Again as stated before a rebuke would be seen as a flame - witness has already been seen as a flame and rude - when thats the case outreach CANNOT occur. When a member is having issues they can act out of character and need councel and a non believer cannot provide Godly councel to a believer nor can a non believer lead another non believer to Christ and yes sometimes those things happen - i know because i was a mod here. I express my concern out of experience being a mod here.

Quite frankly there are some things a non believer cannot do here as a moderator because they are not equipped to do them and they are far from a mature believer. If the board were just another secular board , that would be different then they would be totally qualified.

I disagree. A non-Christian Mod is perfectly well-equipped to do anything their Modship requires of them.

Rebukes should probably be kept private, per Scripture, and never need to be seen by any Mod. Also, some rebukes *are* flames, and nothing but flames.

Anyone can see when a Member is acting out of character. If they can't help, they can fetch help. When someone's upset, they usually don't actually require Godly counsel -- they just need somebody to talk to.

Only the Spirit can lead someone to Christ. Without the Spirit, no human can, Christian or otherwise. With the Spirit, anyone can.

 

[Angel4Truth]

yes with the Spirit anyone can and ill agree with you that non believers are equipped when you can show me scripture that says that non believers have the Holy Spirit.

 

[Dannager]

yes with the Spirit anyone can and ill agree with you that non believers are equipped when you can show me scripture that says that non believers have the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit does not grant you the ability to determine what is and isn't flaming.

I'll agree with you when you show me that Christian moderators are always right. See how ridiculous you sound?

 

[Lindon Tinuviel]

Well, if only the Spirit can draw someone to Christ, then it logically follows that the Spirit can draw non-believers, since that's what we all are before we believe.

 

[DeaconDean]

I'll agree with you when you show me that Christian moderators are always right. See how ridiculous you sound?

I'll remember this when a non-christian slaps your hand and tells you what Catholics, and for that matter Baptists, what they believe in and what their doctrines say.

God Bless

Till all are one.

 

[Lindon Tinuviel]

The Holy Spirit does not grant you the ability to determine what is and isn't flaming.

I'll agree with you when you show me that Christian moderators are always right. See how ridiculous you sound?

That was uncalled for, Dannager.

 

[Beastt]

You are new here... We are not seeking to remove you. Some here simply do not want atheists moderating behind the scenes over Christians. Did you come here expecting to find atheist moderating over a Christian forum? Well, did you?

May I ask what motivated you to come here in the first place?

When you saw it was a Christian forum? Were you expecting to come in here with the requests you now have for the forum?

Did you really?

You find it in all Christian forums. Right?

I hope some here can see the humor in this...

IC, GeneZ
​

I think the problem is clear in the way you've worded this. You don't see this as people moderating a forum, you see it as people of one belief "over" people of another belief, and you believe that it's appropriate for Christians to be "over" atheists and all nonChristians, but not the other way around.

There is a word for that. It's a very unpleasant and negative word. It's a word often used toward those who believe their group, religion, race or political affiliation makes them superior to others. It's a word most people wouldn't be very proud to be described by.

Unfortunately, I've learned quite a bit about the majority of Christians here recently; they have no qualms about exuding the behavior, but come unstitched at the seams if you actually apply the appropriate name to the beliefs and actions associated with it.

It's a forum. Some people possess the skills to do a proper job of unbiased moderation, others do not. The line between them is not the same as the line which separates Christians from nonChristians. Some nonChristians make very good moderators. Some Christians do not. Attempting to present distinctions along imaginary lines is not only going to yield vast inaccuracies, it's a behavior consistent with a word you'd likely consider to be a flame. Too bad some people are more concerned with the name of a set of ideals than practicing that set of ideals.

 

[dignitized]

As time goes by, the idea of rolling back the reforms gets less and less popular.

 

[Lisa0315]

As time goes by, the idea of rolling back the reforms gets less and less popular.

Thank God for that! As time rolls on, people are adjusting to the change and are finding that it is not such a bad idea afterall. Not to mention, the dire predictions of atheist invasion of congregations has not occurred.

Lisa

 

[D'Ann]

As time goes by, the idea of rolling back the reforms gets less and less popular.

I disagree completely with you. This new CF is still a disaster and I haven't changed my mind at all about about where I stand. I am against these reforms stronger today, then yesterday or the day before. As time goes by, it only gets worse.

There is still turmoil, debates, division. The only thing that is truly happening is people are holding back waiting for Erwin to make a decision. Why waste our time arguing and debating without knowing exactly what Erwin is planning on doing.

 

[D'Ann]

Thank God for that! As time rolls on, people are adjusting to the change and are finding that it is not such a bad idea afterall. Not to mention, the dire predictions of atheist invasion of congregations has not occurred.

Lisa

Actually Lisa, I respectfully disagree with you. There have been atheists and non-Christians visiting the Congregational areas and this is a good thing. They have been kind and respectful for the most part.

We still do not have rules to continue to keep the Congregational forums safe in the main wiki rules discussion forum. Each Co forum though seems to have good FSRs though and that is why there hasn't been a worse situation occurring.

Give it time and we'll see what the true outcome will be once the dust truly does settle from this mess.

 

[Lisa0315]

Actually Lisa, I respectfully disagree with you. There have been atheists and non-Christians visiting the Congregational areas and this is a good thing. They have been kind and respectful for the most part.

We still do not have rules to continue to keep the Congregational forums safe in the main wiki rules discussion forum. Each Co forum though seems to have good FSRs though and that is why there hasn't been a worse situation occurring.

Give it time and we'll see what the true outcome will be once the dust truly does settle from this mess.

Well, naturally, I meant the very negative view of an "invasion" rather than atheists visiting our forums. So, far, we have had one that I recall in Conservatives, and it has been very positive. I am all for visiting atheists and interaction with them as long as it is respectful. I just meant that the ebil atheist takeover has not quite manifested itself yet, and I for one, never believed that it would. They are just potential brothers and sisters, not ebil.

Lisa

 

[Inan3]

I think the problem is clear in the way you've worded this. You don't see this as people moderating a forum, you see it as people of one belief "over" people of another belief, and you believe that it's appropriate for Christians to be "over" atheists and all nonChristians, but not the other way around.

There is a word for that. It's a very unpleasant and negative word. It's a word often used toward those who believe their group, religion, race or political affiliation makes them superior to others. It's a word most people wouldn't be very proud to be described by.

Unfortunately, I've learned quite a bit about the majority of Christians here recently; they have no qualms about exuding the behavior, but come unstitched at the seams if you actually apply the appropriate name to the beliefs and actions associated with it.

It's a forum. Some people possess the skills to do a proper job of unbiased moderation, others do not. The line between them is not the same as the line which separates Christians from nonChristians. Some nonChristians make very good moderators. Some Christians do not. Attempting to present distinctions along imaginary lines is not only going to yield vast inaccuracies, it's a behavior consistent with a word you'd likely consider to be a flame. Too bad some people are more concerned with the name of a set of ideals than practicing that set of ideals.

Thank you Beastt, for proving the point that genez and others are trying to get across. You do not understand what WE are saying? You do not understand! You do NOT UNDERSTAND!!!

You have TWISTED genez's meaning.

THE POINT IS this was originally a CHRISTIAN forum NOT an atheist forum or a non believer forum or sports forum or a political forum BUT a CHRISTIAN forum. CHRISTIAN means CHRISTIAN NOT everything else and especially NOT the OPPOSITE of CHRISTIAN which is ATHEIST!

You don't get it because you don't want to get it!

You come here accusing US of trying to rule over you when in fact non-believers have come here to do that very thing. Take it over! It is obvious and very apparent! IF it were not so, then WHO are those who have requested it to be changed. Certainly not those who came here because they wanted a CHRISTIAN site.

You want us to change our ideals for you and when we don't, you insult us and accuse us, etc. etc. Your very wording is indicative of how you feel about us. I noticed that you said "Some nonChristians make very good moderators. Some Christians do not" what about the other side of that...Some Christians make very good moderators and some nonChristians do not...how very subtle and convenient you left that part out.

The only reason you didn't use the flame word you were talking about is because you know the rules wouldn't allow for it. Not because you don't feel that way about us. We are not ignorant of how you feel about us and we are not going to back down because you try to put us in a corner.

I just hope my brothers and sisters will see the big picture and see the need to stand up against this sort of thing, not only here in the forum, but in the world we live in. THAT is God's intention. THAT is why this world has gone to the limits it has BECAUSE Chrisitians didn't stand up for what is right. Christians can't blame non-believers, they have only themselves to blame because they didn't want to get involved. They didn't want to speak up, well, look where that has gotten us. We live in a world of abortion, pornography, no prayer in the schools, no ten commandments in public places, no more nativity scenes in public places, etc. etc. It didn't happen over night but little by little as we let one seemingly small thing in after another. Well it will be the same with the forum. It's already beginning to happen. I know that Christians want to be loving and kind but we can still do that by making a stand. It's not only for our own good but for the good of the non-beleiver, also. As far as the Lord is concerned, it's not the unbelievers part to make these changes but it is up to the Christians. Those who believe in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. He has given us this commission. To go into all the world and make disciples of all men. Not for the world to come to us and make us their disciples.

It is a misunderstanding of scriptures for Christians to think they should just open their arms wide to the non-believer in every way. We are not wimps we are Christians and we need to stand up for Christianity rather than always siding with humanistic values of the world.

I'm sorry to say that some Christians will let their emotions rule them because they do not know what the scripture says and they think we are being unkind in wanting separation. But I believe the scriptures say it best.

2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
2Co 6:15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
2Co 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in [them]; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

One more thing Beastt, I have seen only one person answer this question, "Why did you come to the CHRISTIAN forum anyway if you were NOT a CHRISTIAN?" Why would you want to? I know why I came because I thought it WAS a CHRISTIAN forum and wanted CHRISTIAN fellowship. What actually enticed you to come to a forum where you knew people believed differently from you. Because you wanted to become a CHRISTIAN? Well it's not too late and I think I speak for ALL CHRISITANS when I say you are WELCOME to join the our ranks. We would gladly show you the way. We WANT you to become a CHRISTIAN and follow the Lord Jesus Christ. We WANT you to become our brother or sister. Whosoever WILL may come. The Lord is not willing that any should perish but that ALL should come to repentance. He loved YOU enough to die for you. Come unto Him and He will give you life and life more abundantly.

 

[D'Ann]

Well, naturally, I meant the very negative view of an "invasion" rather than atheists visiting our forums. So, far, we have had one that I recall in Conservatives, and it has been very positive. I am all for visiting atheists and interaction with them as long as it is respectful. I just meant that the ebil atheist takeover has not quite manifested itself yet, and I for one, never believed that it would. They are just potential brothers and sisters, not ebil.

Lisa

I believe that most of us are fine with non-Christians and atheists visiting our safe havens as long as there are rules (FSRs) to help keep the peace and harmony in the Co forums.

But it is just a matter of time that once things are finalized, I do believe that we will see more of an aggressive attempt with some non-Christians trying to prosyltize the Christians. It is not happening yet, because people are smart enough to know that this is still at a very tender stage of it's beginnings. Even the main forum rules haven't been confirmed and finalized yet.

Time will tell.

 

[Davidnic]

Thank God for that! As time rolls on, people are adjusting to the change and are finding that it is not such a bad idea afterall. Not to mention, the dire predictions of atheist invasion of congregations has not occurred.

Lisa

Or hundreds of people have left because it is not where they want to be with the new rules. And hundreds of others, like me, are waiting to see what Erwin's final decision is before they make the decision to leave totally. And in the meantime some of those people are trying to make a postive difference in rules discussions on pro-life issues and other important topics.

And this has never been about atheist's posting in the congregations. That is not some grand idea that Erwin had and admins opposed. If people think that they are dead wrong.

Most of the staff and members who left have no problem with non-Christians posting in the congregation areas as long as they follow the same debate rules as all guests.

 

[Inan3]

Or hundreds of people have left because it is not where they want to be with the new rules. And hundreds of others, like me, are waiting to see what Erwin's final decision is before they make the decision to leave totally. And in the meantime some of those people are trying to make a postive difference in rules discussions on pro-life issues and other important topics.

And this has never been about atheist's posting in the congregations. That is not some grand idea that Erwin had and admins opposed. If people think that they are dead wrong.

Most of the staff and members who left have no problem with non-Christians posting in the congregation areas as long as they follow the same debate rules as all guests.

As Christians we NEED to stay united no matter which way the forum goes. What's wrong with forging on and seeing things turn around. The scripture says He ALWAYS causes us to TRIUMPH in Chist Jesus. The only time He cannot help us is if we give up.

Here is one of my favorite scriptures which has kept me in many situations over the years and I know it will for every Chrisitian who will follow it's wisdom.


KJV
Heb 10:35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.
Heb 10:36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.
Heb 10:37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.
Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if [any man] draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

ISV
Heb 10:35 So do not throw away your confidence, since it holds a great reward for you.
Heb 10:36 For you need endurance, so that after you have done God's will you can receive what he has promised.
Heb 10:37 For "in a very little while the one who is coming will return and will not delay;
Heb 10:38 but my righteous one will live by faith, and if he turns back, my soul will take no pleasure in him."
Heb 10:39 Now, we do not belong to those who turn back and are destroyed, but to those who have faith and are saved.

Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
Gal 6:10 As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all [men], especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

1Pe 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

 

[J4Jesus]

:o

(That doesn't look like a mod "hat" )

 

[Angel4Truth]

J4Jesus its just the lizard man that capt kirk fought on some planet in a star trek episode.

 

[ravenscape]

Yup he's a Gorn. Headstrong, impervious to negotiation or persuasion, and bloodthirsty.

I figured he'd make a good reminder to watch my step and think twice when I post a mod hat.