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Asteroid Strike

Discussion in 'Physical & Life Sciences' started by Resha Caner, May 29, 2019.

  1. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That's the thing for me... there ARE scientists who have admitted they leave God out of any possible answer because they are an atheist, they see it all as a fairly tale, or whatever the case. So, if that guy draws a conclusion and 10,000 scientists all agree with him... it carries NO WEIGHT at all for me, none. Why should it? If there were a 1/1,000,000 chance that God is real... then to not allow in that possibility when working toward a conclusion means that conclusion is suspect. It is not different than a overly fundamental Christian who thinks a word in his bible can only have one meaning. We have to be open to ANY possibility or we can't claim to have truth. We have to weigh out ALL evidence and not just that which agrees with our bias. And that goes for the Christian who believes the bible. We have to hear out why the atheist is an atheist or else we can't fully appreciate our own answers (for example).
     
  2. Ophiolite

    Ophiolite Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape

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    This is a discussion forum. People express views and present facts. They argue and debate, sometimes with less humour and courtesy than they might on reflection wish they had displayed.

    You expressed a view that you were likely to know was controversial and yet you seem surprised, even annoyed, that some members pointed out possible contradictions or flaws in it.

    I'm sorry you feel I was pushing my view. I was doing my best to convey to you my reasons for holding it. One of the reasons I participate in a discussion forum is to be exposed to alternative views. I felt you were presenting your view for the same reasons and I welcomed the insight it gave me.

    I very carefully and deliberately did not take a shot at your intelligence. I presented the two most likely explanations I had for your rejection of evolutionary theory. True, the first was that you weren't all that bright, but that explanation I very clearly rejected. (Since evolutionary theory does require a bit of work to properly grasp I was implicitly complimenting your intelligence.) I think, more passionately than is good for my blood pressure, that were you to study some of the evidence in detail, in a committed manner, you might see that the evidence is sound and that it is not in conflict with Christian beliefs.

    Now you might accuse me of being an interfering busybody. I would readily agree with you. I made good money being a form of interfering busybody, training young engineers to think. Given your justifiable concern for respect I gave you some unsolicited advice. It has been said that free advice is worth every penny you pay for it. It doesn't mean it wasn't offered in a positive spirit.

    At the end of the day, to pitch a cliche, you are quite correct. You can believe what you wish. You can reject other views. You can ignore well intentioned advice. I have zero problem with you offering your viewpoint. I'm sorry you were uncomfortable when I reciprocated.

    Cheers!
     
  3. Ken Rank

    Ken Rank Well-Known Member Supporter

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    My wife is an engineer... I understand the mindset as well as one can when not an engineer. Thanks for the reply... cheers back at ya.
     
  4. -57

    -57 Well-Known Member

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    Preserved biomaterial seems to be somewhat more common than thought.

    Over long times such as in 65+ MY's is impossible.
     
  5. Semper-Fi

    Semper-Fi Member

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    The Dodo bird

    In 1681, the last dodo bird on the planet breathed its last. Some 300 years later, botanists noticed that a certain species of tree was rapidly dying off.

    Tambalacoque trees had historically grown in abun-
    dance. But by the 1970s some botanists said only 13 remained.—and they were all thought to be around 300 years old.

    They made a fascinating discovery: When the dodos were still alive, they ate tambalacoque’s fruit. And only after the seeds had journeyed through their digestive tract could they successfully germinate.

    “The tree’s seeds are encased in a thick-walled protective coat, but the dodo’s stone-filled gizzard was able to exert a powerful crushing pressure on them.

    The bird’s gizzard (a second stomach for grinding food) would pound away at the seed’s coat, weakening it and cracking it a little, but not enough to damage the seed inside. When eventually deposited by the dodo, the seed was able to germinate.”

    So they imported some American turkeys to Mauritius. Their digestive process was similar enough
    to that of the dodos to be able to activate the
    tambalacoque seeds.

    Thanks to Stanley Temple and the turkeys,
    the tambalacoque lives on to this day.

    The dodo went extinct back in 1681, but 300 years later, it delivered a posthumous message: For the tambalacoque tree to survive, it likely had to have come into existence at the same time as the dodo bird.

    This supports the biblical account of creation.
    Genesis 1 records that when God renewed the Earth, He made plants and trees on the third day, and on the fifth day, He made animals, including birds (Genesis 1:11-23).

    The Bible’s account of creation matches the existence of a tree that relies on—and has always relied on—a bird for its survival.

    Many species heavily depend on others for their survival. Many more organisms are mutually dependent: e.g., the calimyrna fig and the blastophaga wasp, the catalpa worm and the braconid, the yucca plant and the pronuba moth, and many more.

    The findings presented problems for evolutionists who say large trees evolved some 360 million years ago, while the ancestors of today’s birds only about 65 million years ago.

    That would have presumably left the tambalacoque with no way to germinate its seeds for some
    300 million years.

    The foremost evolutionists wield impressive intellects.
    They have found ways to explain many aspects of the universe within the framework of their hypothesis. But the foundation of that hypothesis—a creation without a Creator—is false.
     
  6. Yttrium

    Yttrium Active Member

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    You're overlooking the very nature of evolution itself. Changes happen in populations due to environmental factors. The trees 360 million years ago may be pretty much the same species (or at least a similar species) by the time the dodos show up, but there have been some changes, and still more after the dodos show up.

    Typical scenario: The dodos eat the seeds. The seeds that can't survive the digestive system die out, the ones that can survive live on. The population ends up producing tougher seeds. They're still tambalacoque trees, just evolved a little.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
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  7. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Typically the creation days are said to be a thousand years so how did the tree survive 2000 years before God made any animals?
     
  8. David Kent

    David Kent Well-Known Member

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    Who said?

    The bible says 7 evenings and mornings,
     
  9. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    It has been a common interpretation since the beginning of the church.
     
  10. USincognito

    USincognito Milk-Bones for Cerberus is a cool album name Supporter

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    That's great.

    Where did you get the crazy idea that bison horns only come from permafrost?
    Antievolution.org - Antievolution.org Discussion Board -Topic::YEC Professor Claims Religious Discrimination
    Regarding the age of the horn core, there is the interesting creationist buzz, eg. "Did Humans Walk the Earth with Dinosaurs?" that "The Triceratops brow horn was excavated by palaeontologist Otis Kline Jr, microscope scientist Mark Armitage, and microbiologist and avocational palaeontologist Kevin Anderson," obtained C14 dates from their "dinosaur." The radiocarbon dates were reportedly 33,570 ± 120, and 41,010 ± 220 RCY. That would conform with a secondary deposit of a bison.​
    That date is consistent with the time frame of Bison latirons.
    Bison latifrons - Wikipedia

    [​IMG]

    A Google doc is not a site and your Gish Gallop is hardly worth the time since we know there are ways of preserving various parts and pieces for a very long time and many of them don't claim what you think they do. Take #50.

    Here's the actual paper (well the abstract)
    https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/abs/10.1098/rsbl.2008.0302
    >> We conclude that most fossil feathers are preserved as melanosomes, and that the distribution of these structures in fossil feathers can preserve the colour pattern in the original feather. The discovery of preserved melanosomes opens up the possibility of interpreting the colour of extinct birds and other dinosaurs. <<
    So the fossilized feathers have a pattern consistent with the coloration of the feather before it was fossilized.
     
  11. USincognito

    USincognito Milk-Bones for Cerberus is a cool album name Supporter

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    Why is it impossible? The only support I see for that claim is Creationists insisting it is so.
     
  12. USincognito

    USincognito Milk-Bones for Cerberus is a cool album name Supporter

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    I'd recommend against plagiarism.
    The Dodo's Posthumous Message to Mankind
    I'd recommend further against plagiarizing an end times cult website for your scientific data.
    Sideroxylon grandiflorum - Wikipedia

    Temple (1977) force-fed seventeen tambalacoque fruits to wild turkeys. Seven of the fruits were crushed by the bird's gizzard. The remaining ten were either regurgitated or passed with the bird's feces. Temple planted the remaining ten fruits and three germinated. Temple did not try to germinate any seeds from control fruits not fed to turkeys so the effect of feeding fruits to turkeys was unclear. Reports made on tambalacoque seed germination by Hill (1941) and King (1946) found the seeds germinated without abrading.​
     
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  13. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Given the measurements for the ark in Scripture, we wouldn't be able to fit two every living animal alive today let alone two of every animal that ever existed. This in addition to the seven of every kind of "clean animal".

    [​IMG]

    Even assuming that infants and juveniles were taken on the ark instead of adults, it still doesn't work. It might be hard to grasp, but the sheer number of different types of living things that has ever existed is enormous. This is in addition to requiring enough food, the work needed to clean up the waste, etc.

    Simply put, the story was never given to be taken that literally. The point of the story isn't about a boat with animals on it. In fact I think the point of the story is frequently overlooked entirely. The story begins with God looking upon mankind and how wicked we are, and deciding to just wipe everyone out and begin with a new righteous family (Noah's family). So we have "righteous" Noah and his family, surviving the flood and beginning a new chapter in human history--but here's the thing, the flood didn't accomplish anything. That's right, the flood didn't actually solve the problem of human wickedness. Sure, "righteous" Noah builds an altar after the flood waters recede and gives thanks to God, but immediately what do we see? Noah drunk in a tent naked, and when his son Ham comes in and sees his father's nakedness, Noah responds by cursing Ham's son Canaan. Nothing's fixed, nothing's solved, the most "righteous" humans that existed were still wicked, flawed, and sinful--engaging in grotesque activity and cursing. Everything that was a problem before the flood is a problem after the flood.

    The flood story therefor provides us with a question and an answer: If man is so bad why doesn't God just wipe us all out and start over? Because, answers the story, it wouldn't change anything. Even if God wiped us all out and started over with a new set of righteous people we'll be in the exact same position as before. As such, the answer human wickedness cannot be found in wiping us out and starting over--something completely different is necessary, and that something completely different begins with a fellow by the name of Abraham.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
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  14. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    How many dimensions of space are there?

    Some physicists say eleven.

    What say you?
     
  15. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    And the ark was a spaceboat and all the animals were stored as DNA in titanium-crytaline hypercubes. Also nanu-nanu.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  16. AV1611VET

    AV1611VET SCIENCE CAN TAKE A HIKE Supporter

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    Then don't tell me this:
    ... and expect me to believe it.
     
  17. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The point of the flood was not to kill sinners and leave non-sinners alive. It was meant to kill most of the giants which was a plague to regular mankind. The fact that not all the giants died (Goliath and his ancestors) also proves the flood was not global. God killed the rest of the giants that survived the flood in other ways.
     
  18. lasthero

    lasthero Newbie

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    If the flood wasn’t global, what was the out of the Ark? Noah had plenty of time, he could’ve just moved the animals.
     
  19. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What?


    They had to be moved all at once, especially the farm animals that couldn't have been left alone for weeks or months. The most efficient way to move them was using the Ark.
     
  20. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    You're presuming that the nephilim were some sort of weird race of giants. Genesis doesn't say that. You're introducing a late Enochian--and probably Greek inspired--fantasy into the text that simply doesn't exist in the text at all. The text never says the flood was to remove some race of giants.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
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