Assembly of God and Tongues

[Widlast]

Assembly of God believes that speaking in tongues is the evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Are they right?

The main problem with that notion is the general misunderstanding that is rampant amongst Fundamentalists.
Speaking in tongues is the ability to speak in your own native tongue and have the audience hear what you said in THEIR NATIVE TONGUE. That is what Peter and the other apostles did and what is described in the Bible.

Babbling nonsense that nobody understands is both pointless and un-Biblical.

 

[Ron Coates]

I believe the initial baptism of the Holy Spirit is what gives us a reborn spirit. I had the gift of prophecy and was anointed and commissioned by God to lead worship for years before I got the gift of tongues. And when I did receive it, I was alone. I believe tongues can be a sign of the Holy Spirit, though I don't know if everyone gets it. But I'll leave that up to God. I first was prayed for to get the gift of tongues when I was 16 but I didn't receive it until I was 41. I recently had someone tell me to avoid the glamour of tongues. I still don't think I know what he was talking about. Is getting tongues in a Pentecostal church glamorous?
My understanding of tongues is there are many different types. Some are unknown human languages, and some aren't. Whenever I'm ministering and the Holy Spirit is flowing through me, I have a hard time not praying in tongues. Not that I don't have a say, it's that I really do want to pray in the Spirit. I believe a spiritual gift is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit. I call this gift my prayer language. It helps if I lead worship and it is invaluable when it comes to spiritual warfare. Anyway, this is what I believe God has showed me regarding this topic. Peace.

 

[Lady&TheCoatofmanycolors]

I just had a debate with my dad on this subject last week.

He told me about his experience at a Pentecostal church he was invited to and said one man who was speaking in tongues sounded like a "turkey choking on peanutbutter." He couldn't take the Pentecostal movement seriously.

I think these "ecstatic utterances" can and do occur, but only when God wills it, Just like all spiritual gifts. However, there has to be an interpreter or else you should not be speaking in an unknown tongue.

I don't reject tongues, I just think Pentecostals take it too far.

Not All ( take it too far )
And remember Paul says if someone has No interpretation .. He should speak to God

In other words He doesn't say Stop without interpretation.. He says keep it between You & God.

So I think he is referring to prayer language here .

I'm not one to speak in tongues often .
Only twice in my life

Once when I was sleeping and my Huband woke me up because it amazed him.

And another time .

So I believe in it fully .
Do I think it can be " Of The Flesh? "

Certainly , so can praying in front of others , worship can also be of the flesh...
So can fasting & Giving .

So yea .

 

[Lady&TheCoatofmanycolors]

Being baptised in the Spirit is not the same as being filled with the Spirit. We are only Spirit baptized once into the body of Christ, upon conversion. We are commanded to be filled with the Spirit repeatedly (Eph 5:18), otherwise we lapse into being controlled by the old nature and sin.

Baptism of the Spirit is only mentioned 7 times in the bible. Four of those are quoting John the Baptist when he said "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit" (Matt 3:11, Mark 1:8, Luke 3:16, John 1:33). Two of those quote Jesus when he was pointing to Pentecost and the birth of the church "But you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” (Acts 1:5, Acts 11:16). The final one is 1 Cor 12:13 which says all believers are baptized in the Spirit so as to become part of the body of Christ.





Although Jesus blew on the disciples, it doesn't say they actually received the Holy Spirit at that point. In John 7:39 and John 16:7 Jesus specifically says the disciples would not receive the Holy Spirit while He was with them, but that He would send the Spirit only after he had departed. If they received the Spirit when Jesus blew on them, then Jesus was lying. No, in John 20 Jesus was simply giving them a visual illustration and a future command in preparation for Pentecost.

So Pentecost was not the disciples receiving a second measure of the Holy Spirit. It was the birth of the church, the body of Christ. Once the Spirit was given and the church was formed the disciples were baptised in the Spirit so as to form one body, and now all believers receive the same baptism at conversion. "For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body" 1 Cor 12:13.

What do you make of Water , Spirit & Fire
After John Baptised ( Water )
The Sprit Decended ( Holy Spirit )
After Resisting the Devil ( Power )
Correct?

Or am I wrong on this ?

He says Spirit & Fire
Why add the fire ?

 

[swordsman1]

Let me play Devil's Advocate and offer their standard rationale for tongues as the initial evidence of Spirit baptism. In Mark 16:17 (the KJV ending only) speaking in tongues is a sign of the true believer.

Mark 16:17-18 "And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”​

Does that mean all believers are also expected to pick up venomous snakes, drink deadly poison without harming themselves, and heal people, as a sign they are true beleivers? Or was this verse only referring to those in the apostolic age who performed such signs to authenticate them as messengers of the new gospel message? Eg When Paul was bitten by a viper in Malta and instantly gained a huge audience when they saw he was unharmed (Acts 28).

The Book of Acts establishes the pattern of tongues as the unique initial initial evidence of being baptized with the Holy Spirit.

In 3 of the 5 descriptions in Acts of Spirit baptism, the initial evidence includes speaking in tongues: the Day of Pentecost (2:1-8), Cornelius's household (10:44-46), and the church at Ephesus (19:1-6). In the 4th case, Samaria 8:17-18), we are not told how the reception of the Spirit manifested itself, but Simon the magician is so impressed by this demonstration of the Spirit's bestowal that he offers Peter money for the power to impart the Spirit. It is logical to conclude that he too witnesses speaking in tongues.

They were all special unique events where the Spirit was given to new unexpected classes of people to indicate they too should be accepted into the church. They happened to whole groups of people, not individuals - the jews at Pentecosts, the gentiles at Caesaria, the hated Samaritans, and disciples of John the Baptist at Ephesus. They all involved an apostle. They are not the pattern for receiving the Holy Spirit today. Such unique historical narratives are descriptive, not prescriptive.

Paul's question "Do all speak in tongues (1 Corinthians 12:30)?" expects a negative reply because in fact some Corinthians have not yet received or sought this gift. But Paul's question does not imply that God never intended that everyone speak in tongues.

So does that mean those Corinthians who were simply yet to speak in tongues would each eventually be expected to not only speak in tongues, but also interpret tongues, perform miracles, become an apostle, become a prophet, etc? And this despite the fact that Paul clearly teaches that we each have differing gifts (Rom 12:4-6, 1 Cor 12:17-20, 1 Cor 12:8-10).

On the contrary, in 1 Corinthians Paul says, "I want you all to speak in tongues" (14:5)

Paul also said he wished everyone was single like him (1 Cor 7.7). Did he mean that literally or was he being rhetorical?

Indeed, the tongues don't need to be human at all: "Though I speak in tongues of people and of angels (1 Corinthians 13:1)"

Neither Paul nor anyone else spoke in the language of angels. He was speaking hypothetically to make the point that having even the most ultimate form of the gift is worthless without love. If you look at the context of that verse it is obvious what Paul means. This verse forms one of 5 parallel statements to illustrate the superiority of love over the spiritual gifts:

If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and
if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and
if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.​

Paul doesn't say he did any of those things. Each of them is an IF statement. Paul is saying that even if he possessed spiritual gifts to an impossibly superlative degree, but not have love, it would be to no avail. It is quite obvious that in each of these statements Paul is using exaggerated figures of speech to make his point.

Did Paul really have the gift of prophecy to such a degree that he literally knew ALL mysteries and ALL knowledge. ie was he was omniscient? Obviously not.

Did Paul really have the gift of faith to such a degree that he could literally move mountains? No.

Did Paul really have the gift of giving to such a degree that he literally gave ALL his possessions to the poor and made himself destitute? No.

Did Paul literally give his own body to be burned? No.

And neither did he literally speak in the language of angels. He was speaking hypothetically. None of those parallel statements are meant to be taken literally.

There is only one type of tongues described in scripture - foreign human languages as defined in Acts 2:4-11. Nowhere is it redefined as an angelic language or anything else.

 

[WolfGate]

What do you make of Water , Spirit & Fire
After John Baptised ( Water )
The Sprit Decended ( Holy Spirit )
After Resisting the Devil ( Power )
Correct?

Or am I wrong on this ?

He says Spirit & Fire
Why add the fire ?

Lady&TheCoatofmanycolors - First, thank you for the information you have shared on this thread. I have been learning much about a group of Christians I have had little exposure to, and I appreciate how this thread in general has been good discussion as opposed to argued, win without understanding, debate. Your posts in particular have been good for me to read.

Regarding the Spirit and Fire. Are you referring to Matthew 3?

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: “You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
11“I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. 12His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

I have read, in that context, that the baptism of fire is not a good thing, but rather the pit of hell for those who do not believe. In other words, "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and Fire" is saying to the large group before him that there will be a judgement and that they will be, by the power of God, either granted eternal life or eternal damnation.

What are your thoughts on that interpretation?

 

[Lady&TheCoatofmanycolors]

Mark 16:17-18 "And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”​

Does that mean all believers are also expected to pick up venomous snakes, drink deadly poison without harming themselves, and heal people, as a sign they are true beleivers? Or was this verse only referring to those in the apostolic age who performed such signs to authenticate them as messengers of the new gospel message? Eg When Paul was bitten by a viper in Malta and instantly gained a huge audience when they saw he was unharmed (Acts 28).



They were all special unique events where the Spirit was given to new unexpected classes of people to indicate they too should be accepted into the church. They happened to whole groups of people, not individuals - the jews at Pentecosts, the gentiles at Caesaria, the hated Samaritans, and disciples of John the Baptist at Ephesus. They all involved an apostle. They are not the pattern for receiving the Holy Spirit today. Such unique historical narratives are descriptive, not prescriptive.




So does that mean those Corinthians who were simply yet to speak in tongues would each eventually be expected to not only speak in tongues, but also interpret tongues, perform miracles, become an apostle, become a prophet, etc? And this despite the fact that Paul clearly teaches that we each have differing gifts (Rom 12:4-6, 1 Cor 12:17-20, 1 Cor 12:8-10).




Paul also said he wished everyone was single like him (1 Cor 7.7). Did he mean that literally or was he being rhetorical?




Neither Paul nor anyone else spoke in the language of angels. He was speaking hypothetically to make the point that having even the most ultimate form of the gift is worthless without love. If you look at the context of that verse it is obvious what Paul means. This verse forms one of 5 parallel statements to illustrate the superiority of love over the spiritual gifts:

If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and
if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and
if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.​

Paul doesn't say he did any of those things. Each of them is an IF statement. Paul is saying that even if he possessed spiritual gifts to an impossibly superlative degree, but not have love, it would be to no avail. It is quite obvious that in each of these statements Paul is using exaggerated figures of speech to make his point.

Did Paul really have the gift of prophecy to such a degree that he literally knew ALL mysteries and ALL knowledge. ie was he was omniscient? Obviously not.

Did Paul really have the gift of faith to such a degree that he could literally move mountains? No.

Did Paul really have the gift of giving to such a degree that he literally gave ALL his possessions to the poor and made himself destitute? No.

Did Paul literally give his own body to be burned? No.

And neither did he literally speak in the language of angels. He was speaking hypothetically. None of those parallel statements are meant to be taken literally.

There is only one type of tongues described in scripture - foreign human languages as defined in Acts 2:4-11. Nowhere is it redefined as an angelic language or anything else.

What was the purpose of the speaking in Another tongue here among those of the same Lauange?


Acts 19:6 - And when Paul had laid [his] hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

There were 12 of them there .
Also , what's the point of the the New Tongue if there is no one to preach to at That very moment ?


Mark 16:17 - And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;


1 Corinthians 14:1-40 ESV / 387 helpful votes
Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy.

For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; <----- what is that saying?

for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit. <-------- would you be so kind to explain your take on this portion?

On the other hand, the one who prophesies speaks to**** people***

for their upbuilding and encouragement and consolation.

The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, <------What does this mean to You??

but the one who prophesies builds up the church.


Now I want you (*all )to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. WOW!!!!

The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, --->>unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up

 

[Lady&TheCoatofmanycolors]

Lady&TheCoatofmanycolors - First, thank you for the information you have shared on this thread. I have been learning much about a group of Christians I have had little exposure to, and I appreciate how this thread in general has been good discussion as opposed to argued, win without understanding, debate. Your posts in particular have been good for me to read.

Regarding the Spirit and Fire. Are you referring to Matthew 3?


I have read, in that context, that the baptism of fire is not a good thing, but rather the pit of hell for those who do not believe. In other words, "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and Fire" is saying to the large group before him that there will be a judgement and that they will be, by the power of God, either granted eternal life or eternal damnation.

What are your thoughts on that interpretation?

Awww thanks ... you know we are Brothers and Sisters in The Lord , although we don't always agree, that's to be expected

Yes fire represents Judgement but it also represents purification ( refinement ) & Power .
Currently studying on this myself also so Yea .
Found a article that I enjoyed .
Not sure that I agree with every aspect of it . But it's interesting.
& Thanks same to you

The question is based on Luke 3:16-17:

John answered all of them by saying, "I baptize you with water; but one who is more powerful than I is coming; I am not worthy to untie the thong of his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire. His winnowing fork is in his hand, to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his granary; but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire."

There are four key elements here related to the question that need to be explained and understood:

1. Baptism
2. Baptism with water
3. Baptism with the Holy Spirit
4. Baptism with fire

Baptism
In the New Testament, baptism was practiced by John the Baptist and Jesus' disciples, and commanded by Jesus himself (see Matthew 28:16-20) as a permanent ritual, or sacrament, that would introduce people into the Christian church. Those who are baptized are considered Christians, whether baptized as infants or as adults.

Baptism itself is a ritual of cleansing. As originally practiced, it involved being fully immersed in flowing water such as the Jordan River.

In non-religious terms, baptism is a bath. The purpose of a bath physically is to clean the body of dirt and impurities.

Spiritually, therefore, baptism represents the cleansing of a person from evil, falsity, and sin. This is the first step in the process of being born again, or spiritual rebirth.

That is why baptism is presented in the New Testament as "the baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins" (see Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3; Acts 2:38, 13:24, 19:4). Baptism is not about mere physical cleansing; it is a ritual symbolic of the spiritual cleansing of repentance from our sins, and thereby accepting God's forgiveness, entering into the Christian religion, and being born again as a new creation in Christ (see 2 Corinthians 5:17).

In Christianity, baptism takes the place of all the Old Testament rituals of washing and purification.

Luke 3:16 and Matthew 3:11 speak of three forms of baptism:

• with water
• with the Holy Spirit
• with fire

Since baptism in general represents a cleansing of Christian believers from evil, falsity, and sin, each of these forms of baptism represent a cleansing at a different level of a Christian's life.

Baptism with water
In Matthew 3:11, John the Baptist says:

I baptize you with water for repentance.

In the Bible, water is often used as a symbol of truth. For example, Deuteronomy 32:2 reads:

May my teaching drop like the rain,
my speech condense like the dew;
like gentle rain on grass,
like showers on new growth.

Baptism with water, then, represents allowing our lives to be cleansed by thetruth of Jesus' teaching.

But more specifically, the baptism of water performed by John the Baptist was a baptism of repentance from evil, falsity, and sin in a person's outward behavior.

When the people being baptized by John asked him what they must do, he told them that they must stop acting wrongly, and start acting rightly:

"What should we do then?" the crowd asked.

John answered, "Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same."

Even tax collectors came to be baptized. "Teacher," they asked, "what should we do?"

"Don't collect any more than you are required to," he told them.

Then some soldiers asked him, "And what should we do?"

He replied, "Don't extort money and don't accuse people falsely—be content with your pay." (Luke 3:10-14)

In fact, John's imprisonment and later execution by Herod was a result of his rebuking Herod for his behavior:

But when John rebuked Herod the tetrarch because of his marriage to Herodias, his brother's wife, and all the other evil things he had done, Herod added this to them all: He locked John up in prison. (Luke 3:19-20)

The first baptism, then, baptism by water,represents the cleansing of our outward actions, and our speech, from evil, falsity, and sin.

The first step in Christian life and rebirth is to stop speaking falsehoods and lies, and stop doing things that are evil and sinful. This is the "baptism of water for repentance" practiced by John the Baptist and by the disciples of Jesus.

But there are two further, and deeper, forms of baptism. John the Baptist said that Jesus Christ (the "one more powerful than I" who "is coming") "will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."

Baptism with the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit, like water, refers to truth.But it is truth of a deeper kind. It is notoutward truth, but "the spirit of truth":

When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own, but will speak whatever he hears, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. (John 16:13, and see also John 14:16-17, 15:26)

Baptism with the Holy Spirit, then, is the next step beyond the cleansing of our outward life through repenting from sin and instead speaking and acting with kindness and truth. Baptism with the Holy Spirit is the cleansing of our inward self, and specifically of our thoughts and beliefs.

The truth that does this is not the outward truth of right behavior represented by the baptism of water performed by John the Baptist, but the deeper spiritual and divinetruth that cleanses our mind and spirit from falsity and error.

When we are baptized with the Holy Spirit, we follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit into all the truth. We allow the Holy Spirit to re-form our thinking, our faith, our beliefs. The result of baptism with the Holy Spirit is that our mind is enlightened, and we walk in the light of God's spiritual truth.

Baptism with fire
The third and final form of baptism mentioned in Matthew 3:11 and Luke 3:16 is baptism with fire.

Since ancient times, in all cultures, firewith its warmth has been seen as a symbol of love. In the ancient love poem called "The Song of Solomon," 8:6, we read:

Set me as a seal upon your heart,
as a seal upon your arm;
for love is strong as death,
passion fierce as the grave.
Its flashes are flashes of fire,
a raging flame.

And when Solomon dedicated the first temple, and the people saw fire from the Lord descending over it, they instinctively recognized that it represented the Lord'slove for them:

When all the people of Israel saw the firecome down and the glory of the Lord on the temple, they bowed down on the pavement with their faces to the ground, and worshiped and gave thanks to the Lord, saying, "For he is good, for his steadfast love endures forever." (2 Chronicles 7:3, italics added)

When Jesus Christ baptizes us with the Holy Spirit, it is a baptism with spiritual and divine truth.

When Jesus Christ baptizes us with fire, it is a baptism with spiritual and divine love.

Having had our outward behavior cleansed with the baptism of water, and our mind cleansed with the spirit of truth, the third baptism is to have our heart cleansed with the baptism of the fire of God's love.

We humans are a mixture of good and evil loves and motives. Some of the things we want are good. We may enjoy doing a kind deed for a fellow human being in need. But some of the things we want are bad. We may enjoy cussing out someone who has crossed us.

Perhaps through the power of Christ working in our lives we have been able to reform our behavior so that we no longer cuss people out, lie, steal, and so on. Perhaps we even know in our mind that these things are wrong, and we therefore discipline ourselves not to act on them even when we desperately want to.

In the final baptism, the baptism with fire,Jesus Christ cleanses our hearts,meaning our loves, desires, and motives, so that we no longer even want those evil things. We no longer have those evil and selfish impulses. Or if we ever do, instead of feeling the old pleasure at the thought of slugging someone who's insulted us, we find the very thought of doing such a thing intensely distressing and unpleasant.

Baptism with fire is the cleansing of our loves, desires, and motives from all evil, selfish, and greedy impulses, and from the pleasure we used to get from nursing and indulging in those evil desires.

The intense process of purification by fire
This does not happen easily.

It is no accident that "trial by fire" is a process of intense heat, the burning off of chaff, and the purging of dross from metal ores in the process of refining them with intense heat:

His winnowing fork is in his hand, to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his granary; but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire. (Luke 3:17)

And:

See, I am sending my messenger to prepare the way before me, and the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to his temple. The messenger of the covenant in whom you delight—indeed, he is coming, says the Lord of hosts. But who can endure the day of his coming, and who can stand when he appears? For he is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap; he will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver, and he will purify the descendants of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, until they present offerings to the Lord in righteousness. (Malachi 3:1-3)

This cleansing of the heart in the fire of divine love does not happen without the burning off of all our selfish and greedy thoughts and desires in the heated crucible of hard life experience.

As those selfish and greedy thoughts of ours force their way out into harsh words and wrong actions, the impure parts of ourselves are incinerated by "burning coals being heaped upon us" (seeProverbs 25:21-22; Romans 12:19-21), meaning the knowledge and awareness of our own selfishness and greed, and the painful experience of the terribly destructive words and actions that they lead us to say and do.

As we experience these things, the evil desires of our hearts are purged from us, until we no longer have any desire to say and do those evil and destructive things, and take no pleasure in them whatever, but find them horrifying and disgusting.

This is the "baptism with fire" with which Jesus will baptize us if we follow him to the end, fighting the good fight, finishing the race, and keeping the faith (2 Timothy 4:7).

Summary
As we go through this full process of being born again by being baptized with water, the Holy Spirit, and fire, Jesus Christ cleanses our actions, our thoughts, and our desires. In other words, he cleanses us completely, from head to toe and from the outside in.

This process continues throughout our lifetime here on earth. And since even "the heavens are not clean in God's sight" (Job 15:15), we continue to be purified and perfected in heaven to all eternity
I

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

Assembly of God believes that speaking in tongues is the evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Are they right?

The cannon is complete and there is no longer a reason for speaking in a universal tongue.

Acts 2:

1 And when the day of Pentecost was come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing and mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they sat.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues, like fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, men that feared God, of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised, the multitude came together and were astonied, because that every man heard them speak his own language.

7 And they wondered all, and marveled, saying among themselves, Behold, are not all these which speak, of Galilee?

8 How then hear we every man our own language, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the inhabitants of Mesopotamia, and of Judea, and of Cappadocia, of Pontus, and Asia,

10 And of Phrygia, and Pamphylia, of Egypt, and of the parts of Libya, which is beside Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, and Jews, and Proselytes,

11 Cretes, and Arabians: we heard them speak in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.

12 They were all then amazed, and doubted, saying one to another, What may this be?

13 And others mocked, and said, They are full of new wine.

14 ¶ But Peter standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judea, and ye all that inhabit Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken unto my words.

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, since it is but the third hour of the day.

16 But this is that, which was spoken by the Prophet Joel,

So as you can see there is no man today that speaks a language that all nations understand. So yes it is a heresy that the AoG teach.

 

[Lady&TheCoatofmanycolors]

The cannon is complete and there is no longer a reason for speaking in a universal tongue.

Acts 2:

1 And when the day of Pentecost was come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing and mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they sat.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues, like fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, men that feared God, of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised, the multitude came together and were astonied, because that every man heard them speak his own language.

7 And they wondered all, and marveled, saying among themselves, Behold, are not all these which speak, of Galilee?

8 How then hear we every man our own language, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the inhabitants of Mesopotamia, and of Judea, and of Cappadocia, of Pontus, and Asia,

10 And of Phrygia, and Pamphylia, of Egypt, and of the parts of Libya, which is beside Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, and Jews, and Proselytes,

11 Cretes, and Arabians: we heard them speak in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.

12 They were all then amazed, and doubted, saying one to another, What may this be?

13 And others mocked, and said, They are full of new wine.

14 ¶ But Peter standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judea, and ye all that inhabit Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken unto my words.

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, since it is but the third hour of the day.

16 But this is that, which was spoken by the Prophet Joel,

So as you can see there is no man today that speaks a language that all nations understand. So yes it is a heresy that the AoG teach.

I Disagree Many ! MANY miracles of God like this happen Still to This Day ...He is still Here Within Us &&&&& Talk to some Missionaries ..

Unbelievable might be for some .
Still happens .

 

[Deadworm]

Swordsman: "Does that mean all believers are also expected to pick up venomous snakes, drink deadly poison without harming themselves, and heal people, as a sign they are true beleivers?"

Remember, I said I as playing Devil's Advocate. The KjV uses late and corrupt Hebrew and Greek manuscripts and the KJV ending of Mark was added by Aristo of Pella in the mid-2nd century. So Mark's Great Commission is bogus.

Swordsman: "They were all special unique events where the Spirit was given to new unexpected classes of people to indicate they too should be accepted into the church. They happened to whole groups of people, not individuals."

Not in Paul's case, and as I said, he wants all Christians to both speak in tongues and prophesy and he thanks God that he speaks in tongues more than anyone. Paul's wish echoes Numbers 11:29, where Moses expresses the wish that all God's people would prophesy and that the Holy Spirit be imparted to them. In Paul's day this wish was treated as a prophecy that must be fulfilled when the Messiah came. Paul again uses Numbers 11-12 in 13:12, which is inspired by Numbers 12;6, 8. On this usage, see modern commentaries.

Swordsman: "So does that mean those Corinthians who were simply yet to speak in tongues would each eventually be expected to not only speak in tongues, but also interpret tongues, perform miracles, become an apostle, become a prophet, etc?

No, but the best gifts were for everybody (12:31; 14:1) and that's why Paul tells them to earnest pursue "the best gifts" and why the use of Numbers 11:29 as the background is so important.

Swordsman: "Paul also said he wished everyone was single like him (1 Cor 7.7). Did
he mean that literally or was he being rhetorical?"

No, he meant it ,but makes clear that this is only his opinion (7:6), not a divine commandment.

Swordsman: "Neither Paul nor anyone else spoke in the language of angels."

What is it that you don't understand about 13:1? Paul has not changed the subject to love in chap. 13; rather he continues to discuss 3 spiritual gifts, tongues prophecy, and the world of knowledge. So there is no reason to doubt his implication that tongues can express non-human (angelic) languages. Remember, apart from Acts 2, none of the NT texts on speaking in tongues has earthly languages in mind.

"Did Paul really have the gift of prophecy to such a degree that he literally knew ALL mysteries and ALL knowledge. ie was he was omniscient? Obviously not. Did Paul really have the gift of faith to such a degree that he could literally move mountains? No."
You totally miss the point: Paul is using Semitic hyperbole to stress the priority of more excellent way." Agape love must be the underlying mindset during the exercise of gifts of the Spirit like tongues for the gifts to be genuine.

Romans 8:26 borrows language from Delphi to describe the gibberish of the Delphic Pythia (prophetess of Apollo) which needs interpretation by the male prophet. This is described by Paul's contemporary Lucan. 8:26 is thus the most important text on the function of tongues in prayer. The Holy Spirit compensates our ignorance of how to pray and what to pray for by praying through us for what is really needed.

 

[Lady&TheCoatofmanycolors]

The cannon is complete and there is no longer a reason for speaking in a universal tongue.

Acts 2:

1 And when the day of Pentecost was come, they were all with one accord in one place.

2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven, as of a rushing and mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they sat.

3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues, like fire, and it sat upon each of them.

4 And they were all filled with the holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, men that feared God, of every nation under heaven.

6 Now when this was noised, the multitude came together and were astonied, because that every man heard them speak his own language.

7 And they wondered all, and marveled, saying among themselves, Behold, are not all these which speak, of Galilee?

8 How then hear we every man our own language, wherein we were born?

9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the inhabitants of Mesopotamia, and of Judea, and of Cappadocia, of Pontus, and Asia,

10 And of Phrygia, and Pamphylia, of Egypt, and of the parts of Libya, which is beside Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, and Jews, and Proselytes,

11 Cretes, and Arabians: we heard them speak in our own tongues the wonderful works of God.

12 They were all then amazed, and doubted, saying one to another, What may this be?

13 And others mocked, and said, They are full of new wine.

14 ¶ But Peter standing with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judea, and ye all that inhabit Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken unto my words.

15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, since it is but the third hour of the day.

16 But this is that, which was spoken by the Prophet Joel,

So as you can see there is no man today that speaks a language that all nations understand. So yes it is a heresy that the AoG teach.

How Many dispensation believers Preach on the End Times ???? Like All of them .
Don't they quote the end of This portion??? Lol

16But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 19And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:20The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come

Lol I can't take it today .
Picking and choosing
What we believe from this portion .

What is the Day of The Lord???

We Know In Part , One day we will see clearly

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

I Disagree Many ! MANY miracles of God like this happen Still to This Day ...He is still Here Within Us &&&&& Talk to some Missionaries ..

Unbelievable might be for some .
Still happens .

Anybody that thinks that they get personal revelations from God that aren't mentioned in the bible invite much disaster in their lives.

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

How Many dispensation believers Preach on the End Times ???? Like All of them .
Don't they quote the end of This portion??? Lol

16But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 19And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:20The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come

Lol I can't take it today .
Picking and choosing
What we believe from this portion .

What is the Day of The Lord???

We Know In Part , One day we will see clearly

What exactly is you prophecy?

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

How Many dispensation believers Preach on the End Times ???? Like All of them .
Don't they quote the end of This portion??? Lol

16But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 19And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:20The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come

Lol I can't take it today .
Picking and choosing
What we believe from this portion .

What is the Day of The Lord???

We Know In Part , One day we will see clearly

What NEW revelation do you have to offer?

 

[Lady&TheCoatofmanycolors]

Anybody that thinks that they get personal revelations from God that aren't mentioned in the bible invite much disaster in their lives.

Comforter, Couselor ...
What is a counselor ?
Do they only listen ?
No they direct & Guide .

Personal revelation ?
What are you suggesting?
That because someone hears a still small voice ( God )The Holy Spirit directing them that they are a Heritic?

A heretic preaches Another Jesus
A HERITIC trys to Add to or take away from the Word .

To Lead Away from Christ .

Sorry the Holy Spirit is more than a conviction of Sin ...
Plenty of verses to prove that .

Check some out on the topic

 

[Lady&TheCoatofmanycolors]

Anybody that thinks that they get personal revelations from God that aren't mentioned in the bible invite much disaster in their lives.

All prophecy should line up with the Word of God .
I'm not a prophet so ...Lol
Not eating someone else's word sandwich today Lol

It's all good tho

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

Comforter, Couselor ...
What is a counselor ?
Do they only listen ?
No they direct & Guide .

Personal revelation ?
What are you suggesting?
That because someone hears a still small voice ( God )The Holy Spirit directing them that they are a Heritic?

A heretic preaches Another Jesus
A HERITIC trys to Add to or take away from the Word .

To Lead Away from Christ .

Sorry the Holy Spirit is more than a conviction of Sin ...
Plenty of verses to prove that .

Check some out on the topic

You are ramblng.

 

[BornAgainChristian1]

All prophecy should line up with the Word of God .
I'm not a prophet so ...Lol
Not eating someone else's word sandwich today Lol

It's all good tho

Then you don't comprehend what you read in the bible about tongues.

 

[Lady&TheCoatofmanycolors]

Anybody that thinks that they get personal revelations from God that aren't mentioned in the bible ....

I have a clear understanding of what tongues are for Biblically
Here is some Word on the Holy Spirit

1. Personhood of the Holy Spirit (has emotions, is aware, speaks, knows, etc.)
   1. Grieves
      1. Isaiah 63:10, "But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit; Therefore, He turned Himself to become their enemy, He fought against them."
      2. Eph. 4:30, "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."
   2. Loves
      1. Rom. 15:30, "Now I urge you, brethren, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to strive together with me in your prayers to God for me."
   3. Has a mind
      1. Rom. 8:27, "and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God."
   4. Speaks
      1. 2 Sam. 23:2, "The Spirit of the LORD spoke through me; his word was on my tongue."
      2. Acts 8:29, "And the Spirit said to Philip, "Go up and join this chariot."
      3. Acts 10:19, "And while Peter was reflecting on the vision, the Spirit said to him, "Behold, three men are looking for you."
      4. Acts 11:12, "And the Spirit told me to go with them without misgivings. And these six brethren also went with me, and we entered the man’s house."
      5. Acts 13:2, "And while they were ministering to the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, "Set apart for Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them."
      6. Acts 21:11, "And coming to us, he took Paul’s belt and bound his own feet and hands, and said, "This is what the Holy Spirit says: ‘In this way the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.’"
      7. Acts 28:25-26, "And when they did not agree with one another, they began leaving after Paul had spoken one parting word, "The Holy Spirit rightly spoke through Isaiah the prophet to your fathers, saying, ‘Go to this people and say, "You will keep on hearing, but will not understand."
      8. 1 Tim. 4:1, "But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,"
      9. Heb. 3:7-8, "Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says, 'Today if you hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts as when they provoked Me, as in the day of trial in the wilderness,"
      10. Rev. 2:7, "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the Paradise of God." See also Rev. 2:11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22.
      11. Rev. 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, "Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!’" "Yes," says the Spirit, "that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them."
      12. Rev. 22:17, "And the Spirit and the bride say, "Come." And let the one who hears say, "Come." And let the one who is thirsty come; let the one who wishes take the water of life without cost."
   5. Knows
      1. 1 Cor. 2:11, "For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man, which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God."
   6. Has an awareness of goodness
      1. Acts 15:28, "For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials."
   7. Can be lied to
      1. Acts 5:3, "But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back some of the price of the land?"
   8. Can be tested
      1. Acts 5:9, "Then Peter said to her, 'Why is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test?'"
   9. Makes overseers
      1. Acts 20:28, "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood."
   10. Can be a witness
       1. Acts 5:32, "And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."
   11. Can be resisted
       1. Acts 7:51, "You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit."
2. Activities of the Holy Spirit
   1. Teaches
      1. John 14:26, "These things I have spoken to you, while abiding with you. "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you."
      2. Luke 12:12, "for the Holy Spirit will teach you in that very hour what you ought to say."
   2. Intercedes
      1. Rom. 8:26, "And in the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words;"
   3. Leads
      1. Matt. 4:1, "Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil."
   4. Gives life
      1. John 6:63, "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life."
   5. Filled by
      1. Acts 2:4, "And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit was giving them utterance."
3. Forms of the Holy Spirit
   1. Dove
      1. Matt. 3:16, "And after being baptized, Jesus went up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending as a dove, and coming upon Him."
4. Miscellaneous
   1. Can be spoken against
      1. Matt. 12:32, "And whoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come."
   2. Can be baptized with the Holy Spirit
      1. Mark 1:8, "I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."
   3. The Spirit is given
      1. John 3:34, "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God; for He gives the Spirit without measure."
   4. The Spirit is received
      1. John 20:22, "And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit."
   5. The Spirit forbids
      1. Acts 16:6, "And they passed through the Phrygian and Galatian region, having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia."
   6. The Spirit searches all things
      1. 1 Cor. 2:10, "For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God."