Ask an Atheist

[NothingIsImpossible]

Do you like banana cream pie? If not why? What if it had a crispy cookie topping instead of normal pie topping?

 

[Chesterton]

But in general, ask whatever comes to your mind.

Can I borrow $20?

 

[TBDude65]

Can I borrow $20?

If I can borrow $100

 

[TBDude65]

Do you like banana cream pie? If not why? What if it had a crispy cookie topping instead of normal pie topping?

Yes and yes and yes

 

[Arsenios]

Maybe they think brain-talk is naughty?

Brain-talk is VERY naughty...
EVERYBODY know THAT!

So is there room in this thread for any of us ol' ex-atheists?

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

I don't think there is any objective "rock-bottom" to "human dignity."

So does that mean that you think human dignity is entirely subjective?
And that it has no objective basis or existence?

Arsenios

 

[Tinker Grey]

So does that mean that you think human dignity is entirely subjective?
And that it has no objective basis or existence?

Arsenios

This question doesn't make sense to me. Human dignity is a concept. It doesn't exist except there exists a person to contemplate the idea. In that sense it is entirely subjective. What would it mean for this concept to be objective? That human dignity exists "out there" and is discoverable? Could such a thing be discovered by some sapient species even if human didn't exist? ("Hey look! I found some human dignity. I wonder what a human is.")

The concept of dignity seems to me to be the sort of thing that fosters human well being. As a social species, we're evolved to desire cooperation; we're evolved to desire dignity. I'm convinced that we think things are objective because those things are in fact part of our genetic makeup.

Concepts such as "dignity" and "well being" encourage behavior that helps the species survive.

 

[Arsenios]

Human dignity is a concept.

OK - So what are its components and how are they derived?

It doesn't exist except there exists a person to contemplate the idea. In that sense it is entirely subjective. What would it mean for this concept to be objective?

It simply means that human beings have a human quality called dignity...

That human dignity exists "out there" and is discoverable? Could such a thing be discovered by some sapient species even if human didn't exist? ("Hey look! I found some human dignity. I wonder what a human is.")

We are usually confronted with it when a person refuses an action based on grounds of right and wrong...

The concept of dignity seems to me to be the sort of thing that fosters human well being.

Why?

As a social species, we're evolved to desire cooperation; we're evolved to desire dignity. I'm convinced that we think things are objective because those things are in fact part of our genetic makeup.

So you understand man as a genetic product?

Concepts such as "dignity" and "well being" encourage behavior that helps the species survive.

What I have observed is that societies that do not believe human dignity exists - Such as Nazi Germany and the USSR and the Japanese Army in the Rape of Nanking, commit horrible crimes against persons with full self-justification...

Are Good and evil viable terms in your atheist vocabulary? And if so, how? If not, why?

Arsenios

 

[Silmarien]

So is there room in this thread for any of us ol' ex-atheists?

Did you believe in objective morality as an atheist?

Why did you ultimately convert and how difficult was it?

 

[Arsenios]

Did you believe in objective morality as an atheist?

I did - I was an Ayn Rand Objectivist...

Why did you ultimately convert?

I met God...

and how difficult was it?

Conversion is easy when you encounter God...

Becoming an Orthodox Christian is the hardest thing I have ever done...

And the most worthwhile...

Arsenios

 

[jacknife]

Good and evil are just terms we use to describe things, a creation of our own subjective morality, what I would view as evil and what someone else would view as evil is completely different. While I understand the terms and may even use them in conversation I would never attach an objective meaning to them.

 

[Cearbhall]

But in general, ask whatever comes to your mind. Want to know what shows and movies we like and/or dislike? Or what an atheist believes about (insert subject here)? Ask away!

Ooh, what movies do you like, TBDude?

 

[Silmarien]

I met God...

Could you elaborate? And was there anything specifically Christian about this particular meeting? I have seen stories where people have numinous experiences and then seem to pick Christianity almost by a process of elimination. (That appears to have been Wolfhart Pannenberg's situation.)

Becoming an Orthodox Christian is the hardest thing I have ever done...

And the most worthwhile...

Did you go straight from atheism to Orthodoxy or find your way there over time?

 

[jayem]

So you understand man as a genetic product?

Of course. All living organisms are products of their genes. And their behavior--at a very basic level--is instinctive and derives from how their brains are wired. (Which in turn, is affected by natural selection.) But animals with more complex brains--such as human beings--are also products of learning. The behavior of social animals especially (which obviously includes us) is strongly influenced by acculturation. Which can override those basic instincts.

 

[TBDude65]

So does that mean that you think human dignity is entirely subjective?
And that it has no objective basis or existence?

Arsenios

I'd prefer it if you not frame questions as "so you believe X?" It's accusatory.

Q1) I don't know, probably not
Q2) I would think it would be connected to normal human emotions. So I think as long as humans are around and living in societies, it'll probably persist

 

[TBDude65]

Ooh, what movies do you like, TBDude?

I've been on a comedy kick lately, but I also end up watching a lot of kids movies. Some recent movies I like:
Spider-Man homecoming
Guardians of the Galaxy 2
Wonder Woman
Moana
Sausagefest

Classics:
Ernest (pretty much any movie of his)
Shawshank Redemption
Dumb and dumber
Lord of the Rings
Star Wars
A league of their own
Forest Gump
Saving private Ryan
Man on Fire

 

[Arsenios]

Good and evil are just terms we use to describe things, a creation of our own subjective morality, what I would view as evil and what someone else would view as evil is completely different. While I understand the terms and may even use them in conversation I would never attach an objective meaning to them.

Here is what I am conclufing from our conversation so far:
Atheism denies human dignity...
AND
Murdering Christians is not evil...

That pretty much describes atheist USSR...

40,000,000 murders...
No accountability...

Thank-you...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Could you elaborate?

Not here...

And was there anything specifically Christian about this particular meeting?

There was, but I could not see it...

He didn't tell me He is the Christian God for 14 years...

I have seen stories where people have numinous experiences and then seem to pick Christianity almost by a process of elimination.

Mine was not a process of inference but instead was of Revelation by God...

(That appears to have been Wolfhart Pannenberg's situation.)

I don't know him... Native American Shaman, perhaps?

Did you go straight from atheism to Orthodoxy or find your way there over time?

I was 'greened' a little for a couple of years on the idea that there IS a spiritual dimension to things...
Then progressively over three Christmasses encountered God, not even getting that He IS God until the third Christmas Revelation...

I'm a hard case!

You can PM me if you wish...

Usually my first question to an atheist is: "Have you MET God yet?"
And following their apoplectic denial, I then say:
"Then you should be an atheist."
Followed by, in response to their drop-jawed disbelief:
"With this exortation: 'Let NOTHING stand between you and truth and your DOING the truth!'"
And then, as they start chewing these words:
"IF you DO that, God will find YOU..."

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

Of course. All living organisms are products of their genes. And their behavior--at a very basic level--is instinctive and derives from how their brains are wired. (Which in turn, is affected by natural selection.) But animals with more complex brains--such as human beings--are also products of learning. The behavior of social animals especially (which obviously includes us) is strongly influenced by acculturation. Which can override those basic instincts.

You just denied what you affirmed...

If man is but a PRODUCT, then he is but a biological version of a Newtonian Billiard ball in perpetual motion...

Much of western psychology agrees with you, btw, and like you, they have no cure for the existence of evils within all of us...

Makes us all universal victims of our nature and nurture...

We see much more in man than this...

Arsenios

 

[Arsenios]

I'd prefer it if you not frame questions as "so you believe X?" It's accusatory.

Please forgive me...

Q1) I don't know, probably not
Q2) I would think it would be connected to normal human emotions. So I think as long as humans are around and living in societies, it'll probably persist

So the concept of human dignity is not central to your atheist understanding of man?