Ask an atheist!

[Apollo Celestio]

Morality, Objective or Subjective? Or non-existent?

 

[SonicBOOM]

I'm going to expand on a question asked earlier. No offense, but I wasn't fully convinced with the answer. But why does it always seem like athiests have it out for Christians and Christianity, especially in America? I'm not saying ALL athiests or you are this way. But there aren't any TV programs that declare the Muslim religion false or movies made to say Mohammad wasn't who he said he was. Nobody tries to prove that Buddha never lived. In fact there's more written evidence that Jesus lived than there is for Alexander the Great but there is a constant debunking going on against Christianity as if it's more important to prove us wrong than anyone else. Do you belong to any muslim or buddhist forums? Why can someone make a crack about the bible and that's fine, but if you say something against the Koran...well that's just politically incorrect and considered a hate crime! What is your take on this? You may not agree that it's happening from your point of view, but from ours it is.

There is a major war going on in America to try and keep Christianity out of the country. Separation of church and state people shout. But yet a muslim girl can wear a head covering to school, but a Christian boy can't wear a shirt with his Lord on it. This has happened in real life, to my friend. Sorry to go on and on about this, but I'm just giving more examples. I just don't see athiests attacking other religions.

they already answered this... twice actully. Reason 1 was miltant fundumentalists [which is understandable] and the second reason was that Christainity is the major relegein in america so it's alot easier for militant atheists to attack. In other counties, other relegeins are attacked much the same way. we don't see it because we're American!

 

[rejectreality]

Well, though I'm not certain, but I think Saucy was asking why it's acceptable to attack/criticize/insult Christianity, and not other religions. I posed the same question, but did not get an answer. I realize there are fundamentalists on both sides of the fence, but there are other, larger issues, that I take offense to. For example (And I know this has been discussed before, but it's a valid point that deserves a clear answer) Why is evolution taught in schools when Creationism is not? Aren't both valid theories as neither has ever been proven by science? When government institutions decide to not allow Christians to pray in school, yet still allow Muslims to pray during allotted periods, I feel as though my Faith is being singled out and attacked. The same is true of the evolution vs creationism argument.

I attend a rather large university, and frankly, all I see are anti-Christians everywhere. I really never see any other Christians for one main reason: They are hounded and even attacked for their beliefs. I have seen, I promise you, students throwing rocks at a man sharing his faith. How should I react to that? Did the cops show up? No. Did the university condemn their actions? No. No, instead, the school newspaper praised those students who threw rocks. That is my anger. That is why I feel attacked. That is why I don't go around professing my Faith. If someone asks, I'll gladly tell them. But if I'm going to be stoned for sharing my Faith, please don't try to tell me that Christianity is simply attacked for a lack of understanding. I don't understand math, but I've never thrown rocks at my math teacher. I apologize for the rant, but the issue is still consuming me.

God bless

 

[Drosophila1]

I'm going to expand on a question asked earlier. No offense, but I wasn't fully convinced with the answer. But why does it always seem like athiests have it out for Christians and Christianity, especially in America? I'm not saying ALL athiests or you are this way. But there aren't any TV programs that declare the Muslim religion false or movies made to say Mohammad wasn't who he said he was. Nobody tries to prove that Buddha never lived. In fact there's more written evidence that Jesus lived than there is for Alexander the Great but there is a constant debunking going on against Christianity as if it's more important to prove us wrong than anyone else. Do you belong to any muslim or buddhist forums? Why can someone make a crack about the bible and that's fine, but if you say something against the Koran...well that's just politically incorrect and considered a hate crime! What is your take on this? You may not agree that it's happening from your point of view, but from ours it is.

There is a major war going on in America to try and keep Christianity out of the country. Separation of church and state people shout. But yet a muslim girl can wear a head covering to school, but a Christian boy can't wear a shirt with his Lord on it. This has happened in real life, to my friend. Sorry to go on and on about this, but I'm just giving more examples. I just don't see athiests attacking other religions.

Read post #17 in this thread. That answers a bit of your questions. As for islam, it's a far worse religion in practice than any other, in my opinion. Not only are there many more fundamentalists than other denominations, but the moderates dare not openly condemn the violent acts of said fundies. Islam is singlehandedly responsible for the obliteration of scienc in the middle east (where it was basically invented). Believe me, atheists have beefs against that religion too. It's all a matter of popularity of religion where atheists live. You don't get to hear about islam confrontation because you don't live in a country full of muslims.

 

[joeman1]

Read post #17 in this thread. That answers a bit of your questions. As for islam, it's a far worse religion in practice than any other, in my opinion. Not only are there many more fundamentalists than other denominations, but the moderates dare not openly condemn the violent acts of said fundies. Islam is singlehandedly responsible for the obliteration of scienc in the middle east (where it was basically invented). Believe me, atheists have beefs against that religion too. It's all a matter of popularity of religion where atheists live. You don't get to hear about islam confrontation because you don't live in a country full of muslims.

Not to get off topic too much but ya might not hear from them just be cause of the violent ones. Thats what is sad they Litearlly attack those who differ from them.

 

[Drosophila1]

Morality, Objective or Subjective? Or non-existent?

This also depends on who you ask. An atheists can believe either of these. As for me, I think morality is objective. There is, in theory, a "best" way to behave with regards to how little a person causes suffering. I define morality as the absence of suffering. If you do something that causes others to suffer, you have done something immoral. So in so far as the consequences for behaving a certain way are universal (which they are to some extent), there is a way in which least amount of suffering follows from how one acts. Just like a wing in theory can be earodynamically perfect. However, it's nigh on impossible to act perfectly, since people and situations vary.
There are no moral absolutes. The goal is not to find specific rules one must obey, but to use more relative rules so that the least amount of people suffer as little as possible. That's my opinion, at least.

 

[Drosophila1]

Well, though I'm not certain, but I think Saucy was asking why it's acceptable to attack/criticize/insult Christianity, and not other religions. I posed the same question, but did not get an answer. I realize there are fundamentalists on both sides of the fence, but there are other, larger issues, that I take offense to. For example (And I know this has been discussed before, but it's a valid point that deserves a clear answer) Why is evolution taught in schools when Creationism is not? Aren't both valid theories as neither has ever been proven by science? When government institutions decide to not allow Christians to pray in school, yet still allow Muslims to pray during allotted periods, I feel as though my Faith is being singled out and attacked. The same is true of the evolution vs creationism argument.

I attend a rather large university, and frankly, all I see are anti-Christians everywhere. I really never see any other Christians for one main reason: They are hounded and even attacked for their beliefs. I have seen, I promise you, students throwing rocks at a man sharing his faith. How should I react to that? Did the cops show up? No. Did the university condemn their actions? No. No, instead, the school newspaper praised those students who threw rocks. That is my anger. That is why I feel attacked. That is why I don't go around professing my Faith. If someone asks, I'll gladly tell them. But if I'm going to be stoned for sharing my Faith, please don't try to tell me that Christianity is simply attacked for a lack of understanding. I don't understand math, but I've never thrown rocks at my math teacher. I apologize for the rant, but the issue is still consuming me.

God bless

1: I attack islam too, for my part. Go to YouTube and you'll find lots of videos made by atheists that condemn islam.
2: Evolution is an observed fact that the theory explains. The reason creationism cannot be taught in science class is because it is not a field of science. If you have questions or comments about that, I'll be happy to reply to them in a private message.
3: No school or government will or can ever disallow you to pray. There is no way to stop you praying as long as you draw breath. Public schools are not allowed to FORCE people to pray.
4: If you have experienced people physically attacking people simply for having a belief, then that's a very big problem! That's not at all how it should be. What university is this?

 

[Drosophila1]

Not to get off topic too much but ya might not hear from them just be cause of the violent ones. Thats what is sad they Litearlly attack those who differ from them.

The moderate muslims, you mean? Sure thing, there are reasons. But as long as they continue to cower, things will be the same.

 

[SonicBOOM]

Not to get off topic too much but ya might not hear from them just be cause of the violent ones. Thats what is sad they Litearlly attack those who differ from them.

that to might be why it's not attacked so much verbally. People tend to be afraid to bash someone who'll kill them if spoken against. In this sense maybe it's a good thing that Christainity gets scrutiny. It shows us that they beleive that Christains can handle it. it'll be a sad day when people stop speaking negitive words against Christainity out of fear.

This is what bugs me about miltant Christains always moaning about movies like "saved" and "boondog saints". These types of sacrelegious media are created because our world trusts Christains enough to see the fun of it all. It's a sign of honor to be honest the world feels "safe" about Christainity and that is why they feel confortable with scrutinizing it. If anyone says anything against islam, they are killed for it... so no one says anything.

 

[kingoffools13]

Where do you plan to go when you die?
Or do you think you just cease to exist after death?

hehe that reminds me of a clip from one of Dane Cooks stand up routines ... I warn that there is some cursing so don't watch it if that offends but the point is very very well made.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wts-dntnyh4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wts-dntnyh4

K
O
F

 

[SonicBOOM]

3: No school or government will or can ever disallow you to pray. There is no way to stop you praying as long as you draw breath. Public schools are not allowed to FORCE people to pray.
4: If you have experienced people physically attacking people simply for having a belief, then that's a very big problem! That's not at all how it should be. What university is this?

one thing I do gotta say, [which I've noticed as well] the laws DO intend to bring diversity. Though there ARE schools who take it to an unfair extreme. The laws state that Christains are not to force other people to do Christain acts of relegein against their will [which I don't think any Christain would wanna do anyways we beleive in personal choice for almost everything]. Though what schools tend to do is they tend to take this law and say that Christains can't even do their OWN acts! There are schools who will throw out students for carrying bibles. In America we have a prayer program for youth called "see you at the pole" which is forced to meet at 6 am in most places because it is forbidden anytime after the school bell rings.

there are Christains who take an extreme [which I have stated], though there are schools who take this well intended law and use it almost as a persicution [take this word with a grain of salt] tactic.

 

[Drosophila1]

hehe that reminds me of a clip from one of Dane Cooks stand up routines ... I warn that there is some cursing so don't watch it if that offends but the point is very very well made.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wts-dntnyh4

K
O
F

I like Dane Cook, but in that clip he is a douche. I mean, he's frustrated about someone scoffing at his belief to him in person, so he gets back by publically humiliating that person's belief. Great moral high ground there, Dane...

one thing I do gotta say, [which I've noticed as well] the laws DO intend to bring diversity. Though there ARE schools who take it to an unfair extreme. The laws state that Christains are not to force other people to do Christain acts of relegein against their will [which I don't think any Christain would wanna do anyways we beleive in personal choice for almost everything]. Though what schools tend to do is they tend to take this law and say that Christains can't even do their OWN acts! There are schools who will throw out students for carrying bibles. In America we have a prayer program for youth called "see you at the pole" which is forced to meet at 6 am in most places because it is forbidden anytime after the school bell rings.

there are Christains who take an extreme [which I have stated], though there are schools who take this well intended law and use it almost as a persicution [take this word with a grain of salt] tactic.

I would have to know the details about the cases before making a call, but the way you make it sound is not how atheists in general would want to have a public school run.

 

[Saucy]

I know of two instances. 1) My cousin, in Texas of all states, folded his hands to do a short prayer over his lunch at school. He didn't force it on anyone, but a teacher saw him and he was suspended for a few days. 2) my friend wore to school a shirt with three nails on it that said, "FORGIVEN" and the teacher was offended with the shirt and sent him to the principal. He wouldn't turn it inside out. He gets suspended. His mom goes to the school to fight it, but sees a boy with a Marilyn Mason shirt with blood and gore and his breast on there. Another kid wearing a shirt with Ozzy biting the head off a bat. But they don't get in trouble. There are kids all over the U.S. who get in trouble for praying, bring and reading their bibles and stuff like that. They weren't forcing it on anyone. I remember in my high school, the same one where my friend got in trouble at, they had gay clubs and muslim girls would walk around in their head garb (even though that was against school rules. We couldn't wear hats in school). All those things and beliefs are okay, but not showing that you're a Christian. The ACLU in America fights for the rights of every black, muslim oppressed individual, but hates the Christians. They don't fight for our rights. In fact, they fight to outlaw Christianity. Even though our country was founded on Christianity and our laws based upon the 10 commandments, they're fighting to have them sanded off memorials and government buildings.

 

[omarrocks]

Brother I ask you to settle down. They came here open enough to answer people's genuine questions not to get into a debate about religion. Personally I feel that we the church have failed as well I guess you could say I have been having a hard time with fundamentalism myself. It seems like my mind is far more open than my families. That doesn't make me any less of a Christian it just means that I accept more than condem. I mean yes it bothers me when I know people sin. I despise sin but that doesn't mean I turn on someone just because they are in that state. I am to Love them.

I think that both of these young men have been hurt by the church in some way. If I have offeneded you I apologize. I am not trying to bring you back into the fold I am just saying what I see when I read your posts. I think thats the reason why a lot of people turn to athiesim is because the church hurts others. I have seen a lot of good people who aren't as strong in their faith as I am get pretty hurt by what others do in church. Plus half of the people I see in church go out and live like everyone else anyway. So I see it as our fault by NOT living as Christ did.

Now I have a question. Do all athiests believe in evolution or is it those extremists?

I see your point brother, and I will calm down.

I apologise to the people who made this thread possible. I hope you accept.

As for evolution, I am an evolutionist.

Blessings and love.

Omar

 

[Drosophila1]

I know of two instances. 1) My cousin, in Texas of all states, folded his hands to do a short prayer over his lunch at school. He didn't force it on anyone, but a teacher saw him and he was suspended for a few days. 2) my friend wore to school a shirt with three nails on it that said, "FORGIVEN" and the teacher was offended with the shirt and sent him to the principal. He wouldn't turn it inside out. He gets suspended. His mom goes to the school to fight it, but sees a boy with a Marilyn Mason shirt with blood and gore and his breast on there. Another kid wearing a shirt with Ozzy biting the head off a bat. But they don't get in trouble. There are kids all over the U.S. who get in trouble for praying, bring and reading their bibles and stuff like that. They weren't forcing it on anyone. I remember in my high school, the same one where my friend got in trouble at, they had gay clubs and muslim girls would walk around in their head garb (even though that was against school rules. We couldn't wear hats in school). All those things and beliefs are okay, but not showing that you're a Christian. The ACLU in America fights for the rights of every black, muslim oppressed individual, but hates the Christians. They don't fight for our rights. In fact, they fight to outlaw Christianity. Even though our country was founded on Christianity and our laws based upon the 10 commandments, they're fighting to have them sanded off memorials and government buildings.

Wow, okay if you send an e-mail to tv@atheist-community.org, there are people there who would like to hear your stories, I'm sure. They can help you much more than I can. Mostly because I'm not American, so I'm not familiar with where or how lines are supposed to be drawn. From what you tell here, I agree with you that it's going too far.

 

[Drosophila1]

I see your point brother, and I will calm down.

I apologise to the people who made this thread possible. I hope you accept.

As for evolution, I am an evolutionist.

Blessings and love.

Omar

Just a sidenote:
What is an evolutionist? If I accept gravity am I a gravitationist? It is not a political opinion. Evolution is a fact and the theory explains it elegantly. That's not my opinion or belief. That's just plain old science. It neither denies or supports a belief in a god.

I'm glad you accept it
Again, if someone has questions about evolution (creationist or not), don't hesitate to ask, via a private message.

 

[SonicBOOM]

Wow, okay if you send an e-mail to tv@atheist-community.org, there are people there who would like to hear your stories, I'm sure. They can help you much more than I can. Mostly because I'm not American, so I'm not familiar with where or how lines are supposed to be drawn. From what you tell here, I agree with you that it's going too far.

sorry dude. I'm not sure why but I kind of made the assumption that you were American. It must've sounded really dumb to you to hear complaints about how american atheists act. Sorry

 

[SonicBOOM]

That's just plain old science. It neither denies or supports a belief in a god.

my thoughts exactly and frankly I'm glad someone else sees this. I beleive in whats called theistic evultion. It's possable to have both. To me it's such a stupid claim to say that evolution decides if God exists or not. Evolution is a sceince. You mide as well say that medicine decides wether God heals or not!

 

[Drosophila1]

sorry dude. I'm not sure why but I kind of made the assumption that you were American. It must've sounded really dumb to you to hear complaints about how american atheists act. Sorry

Hey, hakuna matata, man.
And those wouldn't be the average atheists in America either, I'm very sure. Some people, atheists or whatever, are just inconsiderate. It's hard to make a judgement call without being familiar with all the facts, I hope you understand. But the ACLU can, and if there is unfairnes afoot, they're just as much on your side as with any atheists

 

[Drosophila1]

my thoughts exactly and frankly I'm glad someone else sees this. I beleive in whats called theistic evultion. It's possable to have both. To me it's such a stupid claim to say that evolution decides if God exists or not. Evolution is a sceince. You mide as well say that medicine decides wether God heals or not!

Yep! It's the fundamentalist creationists who would have moderate christians believe that their entire faith is being confronted with this single theory (when they also in fact attack anything from astronomy and abiogenesis to basic chemics). It reminds me of the spurning of Galileo, frankly. No scientist will tell you that evolutionary theory rejects any gods, and no part of evolutionary biology depends on the lack of any gods. Science simply doesn't take the gods into account, one way or another.