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Ask a physicist anything. (8)

essentialsaltes

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And once again, the ball warps the rubber sheet because you once again think of a pre-conceived force beneath the sheet pulling it downwards.

Dude, it's an analogy. Analogies are not perfect; otherwise they would be identities.

No it doesn't. Nearness to a charged object affects the vibrational rate at which the cesium atom vibrates. The atom is controlled by the electromagnetic force.

You're a loony. Charge up a metal sphere and hold it next to a cesium clock and tell me what happens.

So the energy content of the atom determines the rate at which the atom oscillates, which is why acceleration also affects the rate at which clocks tick.

Wait, wait. You just said it was charge that affects the clock. Now it's energy. The two are not the same thing.

No, once again it is the medium through which the EM force propagates, it's permeability and permittivity that affects the electromagnetic force. This is why light bends in water (a medium) and why light bends around massive objects (the suns plasma atmosphere) and has nothing to do with gravity.

So it's just a coincidence that the amount of deflection matches Einstein's prediction?

I suppose plasma alters the perihelion of Mercury, again coincidentally by just the amount Einstein predicted.

This is also why planets orbit the sun in the sun's magnetic field, and why moons orbit planets in their magnetic field, and why the sun orbits the galaxy in its magnetic field.

Oh, it's magnetic is it? That's too bad. Since there are no magnetic monopoles, magnet-magnet interactions do not obey the inverse square law. So your magnetic gravity can't work. Not content to throw out Einstein, you are now picking fights with Newton.
 
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Chesterton

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Are you familiar with the game of casino craps? There's something involving math and probability I've always wondered about.

Every book written by a "professional gambler" says to make the "free odds" bet, the bet placed behind the original pass line bet. They say that because it pays even money, it's the best bet in the casino, which is true, but the catch is you're only allowed to place it after the odds against you winning are even greater than they were with the original bet. Seems to me like betting with a friend on a football match, and when your team is down 2-0 at halftime, your friend offers to let you bet more money at somewhat better odds.

I know in the long run you're going to lose at the game anyway, but if a person wants to play the game, are they better off making the free odds bet, or not making it? My intuition tells me don't make the bet, but every so-called expert will say to make it.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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And once again, the ball warps the rubber sheet because you once again think of a pre-conceived force beneath the sheet pulling it downwards. The rubber sheet analogy is the worst analogy one could ever use to describe space.
Because you can't see the forest for the trees. In the real world case, it's the peculiar interaction of mass and spacetime that warps spacetime. The rubber sheet analogy uses gravity to represent mass warping spacetime. The point of the analogy is the effect the warping has on the movement of other bodies - a marble rolled on the sheet seems to be attracted to the heavy central mass, but that's just emerges from the curvature of spacetime, not any real force. That the analogy uses gravity to simulate this is irrelevant.

Your spacetime is composed of nothing, since space is not an ether. So basically you want something to warp nothing, then nothing to tell something how to move. Not only that, you want this nothing to stretch and expand as well, and not just to expand but to accelerate as it expands.

So why do you treat it as an ether, then refuse to consider ether theories?
Because we don't treat it like an ether.

No it doesn't. Nearness to a charged object affects the vibrational rate at which the cesium atom vibrates. The atom is controlled by the electromagnetic force.
Which is utter rubbish. The atom is primarily controlled by the weak and strong nuclear forces; the EM force only governs electrons and molecules. The vibration of a caesium atom is determined by its nucleus, by quantum constants determined by the quark makeup of the nucleus. It is utterly unaffected by both the EM force and acceleration.

So the energy content of the atom determines the rate at which the atom oscillates, which is why acceleration also affects the rate at which clocks tick.
Utter unsubstantiated hogwash.

No, once again it is the medium through which the EM force propagates, it's permeability and permittivity that affects the electromagnetic force. This is why light bends in water (a medium) and why light bends around massive objects (the suns plasma atmosphere) and has nothing to do with gravity. Light is constant, does not slow or speed up near a gravitational source, but does slow when propagating through a medium. As it is also refracted, deflected or absorbed.

Refraction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Refraction is the change in direction of a wave due to a change in its transmission medium."

So as light passes through the solar atmosphere it is refracted, not bent by your imaginary warped nothing. Of this you have direct experimental results, that confirm it is the sun's plasma atmosphere that refracts the light, not your mythical warped space.
Except that classical theory is wrong. Light bends, but not enough. GR is needed to explain the extra bending observed. If you ignore GR, light bends more than it should. If you account for GR, this extra bending is precisely explained. GR doesn't just add bending, it adds the right amount of bending.

No one denies that the EM force can affect light, but it doesn't do it enough.

No, moving charged objects curve in space as they near other charged objects because of the magnetic force. Of which once again we have a wealth of experimental evidence.
Indeed, which is why we can model the system with great precision, and find that it doesn't work. Classical models do not work, they don't bend light enough, they don't predict planetary movement well enough, and they are hilariously terrible at modelling atoms and smaller.

This is also why planets orbit the sun in the sun's magnetic field, and why moons orbit planets in their magnetic field, and why the sun orbits the galaxy in its magnetic field. All rotational affects are caused by electric currents, they do not begin to spin by chance from the collapse of interstellar dust as gravity pulls the material inward, Gravity is a spherical force, so the collapse should be equal from all directions, counteracting spin.
Nonsense. It is virtually impossible for a natural interstellar dust cloud to have exactly zero net spin. There will always be some net spin. This is the same reason for why black holes always have spin - you're just not gonna get zero net spin.

GR is simply a generalization of SR and SR was developed from the electromagnetic force (both Lorentz and Maxwell equations) and the effects of permeability and permittivity. SR is "On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies", being a generalization it can in no instance violate SR. That you fail to account for the Electrodynamics in GR is not E's fault, even he was never satisfied with GR.
What exactly is your point here? GR never violates SR. SR is the degenerate case of flat spacetime, and Einstein said "What is spacetime wasn't flat?", and out popped GR. At what point do you think GR violates SR? And if it doesn't, what on Earth is your point?

So your reliance on E's theory of GR, that he himself was not satisfied with is quite irrelevant. He hoped the generalization would emerge in later years, instead you threw in more Fairie Dust, expending and bending nothing. Dark matter, Dark Energy. All undetectable entities in your attempt to fudge the math of GR into a semblance of what we observe outside the solar system.
You do realise that Einstein's own opinion about this theory means exactly zero, yes?

Don't get me wrong, GR is a good approximation of bound matter or matter in close confines where the electric and magnetic fields are balanced. But in the depths of space it fails utterly, and so Dark Matter, Dark Energy and bent nothing was invented in an attempt to fusge the math to fit observations in a universe dominated by unbound matter and matter NOT in close confines. Plasma, a distinct state of matter that does not behave like solids liquids and gasses (bound matter or matter in close confines where the EM forces are balanced). So once one leaves the vicinity of the solar system or center of galaxies, the math no longer works anymore and must be fudged by supernatural gap fillers.

Because the gravitational laws do not apply to unbound Plasma in space, the electromagnetic laws do. This is why Plasma does not behave like solids, liquids or gasses and is considered a distinct state of matter.

Plasma (physics) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The presence of a non-negligible number of charge carriers makes the plasma electrically conductive so that it responds strongly to electromagnetic fields. Plasma, therefore, has properties quite unlike those of solids, liquids, or gases and is considered a distinct state of matter."

Yet you treat it no differently in your math than those solids, liquids and gasses you say it behave quite unlike. Then you wonder why after you ignore what 99% of the universe is, you must add 96% Fairie Dust to make the math work. Word games and semantics is all you are left with.
Says the person who thinks the only force at work in an atom is electromagnetism.
 
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Wiccan_Child

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You're a loony. Charge up a metal sphere and hold it next to a cesium clock and tell me what happens.
It's funny how electromagnetism will speed up and slow down accelerating clocks by the exact same amount. All clocks, mind you, no matter what their physical mechanism. EM somehow adds mysterious energy that makes caesium atoms oscillate faster - so what would happen to non-atomic clocks?

EM needs ad hoc solutions to keep it viable, epicycles upon epicycles. At this, GR wins by parsimony alone, all its empirical confirmations aside.
 
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essentialsaltes

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...but the Nazis believed in GR.

GODWIN for the WIN! :clap:

It's before the Nazis, but Schwarzschild (of Schwarzschild radius fame) developed his ideas (including the first exact solution of the GR equations) while serving as a German soldier in WWI.
 
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Justatruthseeker

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Because you can't see the forest for the trees. In the real world case, it's the peculiar interaction of mass and spacetime that warps spacetime. The rubber sheet analogy uses gravity to represent mass warping spacetime. The point of the analogy is the effect the warping has on the movement of other bodies - a marble rolled on the sheet seems to be attracted to the heavy central mass, but that's just emerges from the curvature of spacetime, not any real force. That the analogy uses gravity to simulate this is irrelevant.


Because we don't treat it like an ether.


Which is utter rubbish. The atom is primarily controlled by the weak and strong nuclear forces; the EM force only governs electrons and molecules. The vibration of a caesium atom is determined by its nucleus, by quantum constants determined by the quark makeup of the nucleus. It is utterly unaffected by both the EM force and acceleration.


Utter unsubstantiated hogwash.


Except that classical theory is wrong. Light bends, but not enough. GR is needed to explain the extra bending observed. If you ignore GR, light bends more than it should. If you account for GR, this extra bending is precisely explained. GR doesn't just add bending, it adds the right amount of bending.

No one denies that the EM force can affect light, but it doesn't do it enough.


Indeed, which is why we can model the system with great precision, and find that it doesn't work. Classical models do not work, they don't bend light enough, they don't predict planetary movement well enough, and they are hilariously terrible at modelling atoms and smaller.


Nonsense. It is virtually impossible for a natural interstellar dust cloud to have exactly zero net spin. There will always be some net spin. This is the same reason for why black holes always have spin - you're just not gonna get zero net spin.


What exactly is your point here? GR never violates SR. SR is the degenerate case of flat spacetime, and Einstein said "What is spacetime wasn't flat?", and out popped GR. At what point do you think GR violates SR? And if it doesn't, what on Earth is your point?


You do realise that Einstein's own opinion about this theory means exactly zero, yes?


Says the person who thinks the only force at work in an atom is electromagnetism.


Says the man who thinks the weak interaction is anything other than electromagnetic.

Weak interaction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The theory of the weak interaction is sometimes called quantum flavordynamics (QFD), in analogy with the terms QCD and QED, but in practice the term is rarely used because the weak force is best understood in terms of electro-weak theory"

So even your own scientists admit that the weak nuclear force is best understood in terms of the electro-weak theory. They just refuse to change the books or admit they are one and the same. So away goes one of your fundamental forces, and we are left with three. Electromagnetic, gravitational and strong force.

But as anyone who has ever studies science would know the strong force is not a fundamental force.

It was once believed that protons and neutrons were fundamental particles and a force was needed to explain how positive protons could stay together and not fly apart, so the strong force was postulated as this force. It was discovered in later years that they were not fundamental particles, but were composed of quarks controlled by the Color Charge force. The strong force was then considered a sub-field of the Color Charge field.

Strong interaction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


"Before the 1970s, physicists were uncertain about the binding mechanism of the atomic nucleus. It was known that the nucleus was composed of protons and neutrons and that protons possessed positive electric charge while neutrons were electrically neutral. However, these facts seemed to contradict one another. By physical understanding at that time, positive charges would repel one another and the nucleus should therefore fly apart. However, this was never observed. New physics was needed to explain this phenomenon.

A stronger attractive force was postulated to explain how the atomic nucleus was bound together despite the protons' mutual electromagnetic repulsion. This hypothesized force was called the strong force, which was believed to be a fundamental force that acted on the nucleons (the protons and neutrons that make up the nucleus). Experiments suggested that this force bound protons and neutrons together with equal strength.

It was later discovered that protons and neutrons were not fundamental particles, but were made up of constituent particles called quarks. The strong attraction between nucleons was the side-effect of a more fundamental force that bound the quarks together in the protons and neutrons. The theory of quantum chromodynamics explains that quarks carry what is called a color charge, although it has no relation to visible color. Quarks with unlike color charge attract one another as a result of the strong interaction, which is mediated by particles called gluons."


And as we know, quarks are nothing but charged particles.


Quark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



"Quarks have fractional electric charge values – either 1⁄3 or 2⁄3 times the elementary charge, depending on flavor. Up, charm, and top quarks (collectively referred to as up-type quarks) have a charge of +2⁄3, while down, strange, and bottom quarks (down-type quarks) have −1⁄3. Antiquarks have the opposite charge to their corresponding quarks; up-type antiquarks have charges of −2⁄3 and down-type antiquarks have charges of +1⁄3. Since the electric charge of a hadron is the sum of the charges of the constituent quarks, all hadrons have integer charges: the combination of three quarks (baryons), three antiquarks (antibaryons), or a quark and an antiquark (mesons) always results in integer charges.[52] For example, the hadron constituents of atomic nuclei, neutrons and protons, have charges of 0 and +1 respectively; the neutron is composed of two down quarks and one up quark, and the proton of two up quarks and one down quark"

Elementary charge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The elementary charge, usually denoted as e, is the electric charge carried by a single proton, or equivalently, the negation (opposite) of the electric charge carried by a single electron.[2] This elementary charge is a fundamental physical constant."

So the electric charge or elementary charge is a physical constant of which quarks have fractional charges thereof. Of course you like to call it color charge, although it has no relation to color and is merely the spin, i.e. movement of charged particles interacting with one another.

As for Gluons:

Gluon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


"Gluons ( /ˈɡluːɒnz/; from English glue) are elementary particles that act as the exchange particles (or gauge bosons) for the strong force between quarks, analogous to the exchange of photons in the electromagnetic force between two charged particles.
Since quarks make up the baryons and the mesons, and the strong interaction takes place between baryons and mesons, one could say that the color force is the source of the strong interaction, or that the strong interaction is like a residual color force that extends beyond the baryons, for example when protons and neutrons are bound together in a nucleus."


So "one could say that the color force is the source of the strong interaction," and to be considered a fundamental force " In particle physics,
fundamental interactions (sometimes called interactive forces or fundamental forces) are the ways that elementary particles interact with one another. An interaction is fundamental when it cannot be described in terms of other interactions."

Fundamental interaction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



It was first wrongly asserted that the protons and neutrons were fundamental particles and governed by the strong force, then when Color Charge was found, the strong force became a sub-filed of this force. In effect the strong force can know be described in terms of the Color Charge, so it no longer can claim fundamental force status. Yet they to this day call it a fundamental force, when in reality it is the color charge of the fundamental particles (quarks) that governs the atom.



So bye, bye to the strong force. And we are left with two, electromagnetic and gravitational. Since we to this day have no idea at all as to what causes gravity, it could very well be nothing more than the balanced electric and magnetic forces around us, since as we already learned the EM force is responsible for every other interaction around us that we observe except gravity. Once again, even your own scientists admit to this.


Electromagnetism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



"The electromagnetic force is the interaction responsible for almost all the phenomena encountered in daily life, with the exception of gravity."


But since gravity according to GR is NOT a force, then in reality we are left with just one fundamental force, electromagnetism. And your bent spacetime becomes just another Fairie Dust entity needed to explain the refusal to accept the fact that you treat Plasma as nothing but ordinary matter (solids, liquids and gasses - matter in which the electric and magnetic forces are balanced) when scientists themselves say it behave quite unlike them and is a distinct state of matter.


You can't even abide by your own definition of what Plasma is, but treat it no differently than a "hot gas" of which it behaves quite unlike and then constantly have to invent Fairie Dust as a supernatural gap filler to fudge the math. Try practicing science sometimes and actually listening to experimental results and you might find your need for Fairie Dust becomes nil.


But then your psuedoscientists called astronomers wouldn't be able to obtain billions of dollars in funding looking for nothing. As long as they continue to ignore Plasma in the universe they can continue to postulate their Fairie Dust entities and continue to con the American people out of their hard earned tax dollars.



All to support their fancy cars, big houses and Symposiums on Dark Matter, just so we can be told they have found absolutely nothing, for the 12th time.


It is a never-ending story. But the search must go on because the next round of funding is needed to support their lifestyle. You are a dupe, a pawn in the greatest hoax ever perpetuated. Wake up and demand accountability.



A Neverending Story - Cosmologists Find The Nothing!!


How many times must we find nothing, while they laud a negative result as a success?

And how are those gravity waves going?

http://www.thunderbolts.info/thunde...mith_au08/ligo_successfully_finds_nothing.htm
 
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essentialsaltes

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So even your own scientists admit that the weak nuclear force is best understood in terms of the electro-weak theory. They just refuse to change the books or admit they are one and the same.

Wrong, that's exactly what the books say.

So away goes one of your fundamental forces, and we are left with three. Electromagnetic, gravitational and strong (QCD) force.

Wrong, we are left with gravity, the strong force, and the electro-weak force.

But as anyone who has ever studies science would know the strong force is not a fundamental force.

Wrong. I studied science, and the strong force is a fundamental force. You, on the other hand, are a loony.

A stronger attractive force was postulated to explain how the atomic nucleus was bound together despite the protons' mutual electromagnetic repulsion.

You should pay close attention to this. The nuclear force cannot be electromagnetism.

And as we know, quarks are nothing but charged particles.

Wrong. They also carry color, which is not electromagnetic charge.

So the electric charge or elementary charge is a physical constant of which quarks have fractional charges thereof. Of course you like to call it color charge

Wrong. Color charge is not the same as electric charge, and quarks have both.

So bye, bye to the strong force. And we are left with two, electromagnetic and gravitational.

Wrong. The strong force is QCD, and it is neither electromagnetic nor gravitational.

Since we to this day have no idea at all as to what causes gravity

*We* have a very good idea. I wouldn't be surprised if you have no idea at all. You are incorrigible and ineducable.
 
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Cactus Jack

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I am looking at going to college and changing my career line. Though now semi-retired, I have spent a number of years in mining/mineral exploration & extraction, though I have also worked for a bit in both sales and restaurant services.

So now that i'm 44, I'm bored and looking at making a change in life. I'm debating physics, chemistry, electronics, or even continuing in earth sciences and getting a degree in geology.

Any arguments for or against or...?
 
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Justatruthseeker

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I am looking at going to college and changing my career line. Though now semi-retired, I have spent a number of years in mining/mineral exploration & extraction, though I have also worked for a bit in both sales and restaurant services.

So now that i'm 44, I'm bored and looking at making a change in life. I'm debating physics, chemistry, electronics, or even continuing in earth sciences and getting a degree in geology.

Any arguments for or against or...?


Since almost all chemical reactions and physics deals with electromagnetism, a course in Electrodynamic Theory is always a good isea. As well as courses in Plasma Physics, since 99% of the universe is plasma and solids, liquids and gasses make up the other 1%. Of course others on here would have you believe that 1% is more important than the other 99%, but then they aren't very good at math when one believes 1 is greater than 99.
 
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Subduction Zone

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Since almost all chemical reactions and physics deals with electromagnetism, a course in Electrodynamic Theory is always a good isea. As well as courses in Plasma Physics, since 99% of the universe is plasma and solids, liquids and gasses make up the other 1%. Of course others on here would have you believe that 1% is more important than the other 99%, but then they aren't very good at math when one believes 1 is greater than 99.


A word of warning, Justa cannot do the physics that he supports. Take his recommendations with a huge grain of salt.
 
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Chesterton

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Of course others on here would have you believe that 1% is more important than the other 99%, but then they aren't very good at math when one believes 1 is greater than 99.

If you're so much better at math, answer my gambling question. :p
 
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Zippy the Wonderslug

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Is there anyone who could give me the steps on how to reduce the quality of the first image to match exactly with the second one?

tlm9.png


lfxr.png


Also, since I'm trying to position the cue ball pixel perfect on the table with that second image, it would be great if someone told me the most easiest way of doing this since my browser and OS are different.

Cheers. :)
 
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Zippy the Wonderslug

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Okay, I'm trying to better focus on this problem and I think I might have a good idea.

Could someone help me by stating exactly how many pixels the cue ball is off (x,y) when comparing the first image with the second one?

Sorry for the horrible resolution on the second image (the source was pulled from YouTube), but that is the best that I have for now.

t523.png


5rtr.png


Since I can hex edit the mouse recording file, I'll be able to easily adjust the placement of the cue ball.

Cheers.
 
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Chesterton

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I don't understand solubility. What has happened when, say, sugar is dissolved in water? The solid grain seems to disappear but I know it's there because I can taste it. What happens to the individual water and sugar molecules? Do they combine to form a new molecule, a "sugar-water" molecule?
 
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Subduction Zone

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I don't understand solubility. What has happened when, say, sugar is dissolved in water? The solid grain seems to disappear but I know it's there because I can taste it. What happens to the individual water and sugar molecules? Do they combine to form a new molecule, a "sugar-water" molecule?


When you are looking at a grain of sugar you are looking at countless sugar molecules. They are relatively weakly joined together. When exposed to pure water the weak bonds between different crystals break since it is more strongly attracted to the hydrogen in water. In the water one molecule will not strongly attach to any one molecule of water, it will migrate from water molecule to water molecule. At any rate the crystal will "disappear" as more and more crystals leave the lattice of the grain to dissolve into water.

If you raise the concentration of sugar in the water high enough, usually by boiling water away, the remaining sugar will start to become attracted to other molecules of sugar because the hydrogen in the water already is attracted to too many sugar molecules.
 
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