As in the Days of Noah, Few will take the Red Pill

[Handmaid for Jesus]

Again, they will see the kingdom AFTER IT HAS COME. It doesn’t say part or preview or glimpse.


And he said to them, “Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.”
Mark 9:1 - Bible Gateway passage: Mark 9:1 - English Standard Version

So what are you saying? Lord Jesus IS returning! And He will rule the nations with a rod of iron. If you think Lord Jesus has already come the second time, When did this happen? You cannot prove by scripture that Lord Jesus has come the second time.

 

[parousia70]

If you think Lord Jesus has already come the second time, When did this happen? You cannot prove by scripture that Lord Jesus has come the second time.

Actually, Scripture testifies He has Come MULTIPLE TIMES since the ascencion.

Here's one:
Acts 7:55-56
55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God, 56 and said, “Look! I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!”

And the next coming of Jesus was here:
Acts 9:3-5
3 As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. 4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?”Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.

and then He of course came as the Lord of the Vineyard/Chief Cornerstone in 70AD in fulfillment of Matthew 21:33-45, Crushing the Wicked generation of Jews, just as He promised He would here:

40 “Therefore, when the lord of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those vinedressers?”
41 They said to Him, “He will destroy those wicked men miserably, and lease his vineyard to other vinedressers who will render to him the fruits in their seasons.”

Any "future to us" coming, won't be the "2nd".

 

[claninja]

So what are you saying?

The son of man came in his kingdom during the time of the disciples generation. Which was during the time of the Roman Empire(the 4th kingdom In Nebuchadnezzar’s statue). It was the rock that became a mountain and covered earth, just as the kingdom of God is like a mustard seed.

And He will rule the nations with a rod of iron.

He already rules with an iron rod. He currently has the authority. He will continue to rule with this authority.

26 The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations, 27 and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself HAVE RECEIVED authority from my Father.
Revelation 2:26-27

If you think Lord Jesus has already come the second time,

If his promises are true. He came during the generation of apostles.

34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
Matthew 24:34 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 24:34 - English Standard Version

But I know the argument against this, is that Jesus was actually talking about a future generation. Terrible argument imo considering all the things predicted by Christ in the olivet discourse were fulfilled before and by the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.

However, if jesus was talking about a future generation, why did the apostles believe they were living in the last days? This is definitely a question that needs be addressed.

You cannot prove by scripture that Lord Jesus has come the second time.

34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
Matthew 24:34 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 24:34 - English Standard Version

27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. 28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Matthew 16:27-28 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 16:27-28 - English Standard Version

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

The son of man came in his kingdom during the time of the disciples generation. Which was during the time of the Roman Empire(the 4th kingdom In Nebuchadnezzar’s statue). It was the rock that became a mountain and covered earth, just as the kingdom of God is like a mustard seed.



He already rules with an iron rod. He currently has the authority. He will continue to rule with this authority.

26 The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations, 27 and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself HAVE RECEIVED authority from my Father.
Revelation 2:26-27



If his promises are true. He came during the generation of apostles.

34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
Matthew 24:34 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 24:34 - English Standard Version

But I know the argument against this, is that Jesus was actually talking about a future generation. Terrible argument imo considering all the things predicted by Christ in the olivet discourse were fulfilled before and by the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.

However, if jesus was talking about a future generation, why did the apostles believe they were living in the last days? This is definitely a question that needs be addressed.



34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
Matthew 24:34 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 24:34 - English Standard Version

27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. 28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Matthew 16:27-28 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 16:27-28 - English Standard Version

Man you sure have twisted the scripture.But let's see how that works out for you. Lord Jesus is returning very soon I hope.

 

[claninja]

Man you sure have twisted the scripture.But let's see how that works out for you. Lord Jesus is returning very soon I hope.

I could say the same about you, so instead, Let's stick to objective arguments. If there is something you disagree with, point it out and show how it is wrong and how you interpret it.

 

[dougangel]

34 Truly, I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.
Matthew 24:34 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 24:34 - English Standard Version

32 Now from the fig tree learn her parable: when her branch is now become tender, and putteth forth its leaves, ye know that the summer is nigh; 33 even so ye also, when ye see all these things, know ye that he is nigh, [even] at the doors.

34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished.

The context is the fig tree generation. It's within a generation of that.

27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. 28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Matthew 16:27-28 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 16:27-28 - English Standard Version

I believe Jesus is talking about the Transfiguration.


Matthew 17:1-3 New International Version (NIV)

The Transfiguration

17 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

They seen Jesus Moses and Elijah in the spiritaul realm.

 

[claninja]

The context is the fig tree generation. It's within a generation of that.

Why is the fig tree generation a 2000 plus year one:
Matthew 24:33
So also, when YOU (disciples) see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates.

I believe Jesus is talking about the Transfiguration.


Matthew 17:1-3 New International Version (NIV)

The Transfiguration

17 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. 2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light. 3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.

They seen Jesus Moses and Elijah in the spiritaul realm.

So Jesus came with the angels to repay everyone for their works when he was transfigured?

27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. 28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Matthew 16:27-28 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 16:27-28 - English Standard Version

 

[parousia70]

Lord Jesus is returning very soon I hope.

Proverbs 13:12
Hope differed makes the heart sick, but desire come is a tree of life

 

[Handmaid for Jesus]

I could say the same about you, so instead, Let's stick to objective arguments. If there is something you disagree with, point it out and show how it is wrong and how you interpret it.

Yes you can. You have chosen to believe that Lord Jesus has already come in the second coming. I believe that scripture says otherwise. You may have your hopeless belief and I will not argue about it. It does not matter what I post, you have been persuaded otherwise so it is futile to try to prove to you otherwise. Like I said, we will see how your belief works out for you. I believe I will see my Lord Jesus face to face.

 

[parousia70]

You may have your hopeless belief and I will not argue about it.

Hopeless?
For my 10th birthday I hoped for a new bicycle.
On my 10th birthday I got that bicycle.
According to you, after I got the bicycle I became hopeless.

What Kind of logic is that?

 

[claninja]

You may have your hopeless belief and I will not argue about it.

There is no hopeless belief in the authority of Jesus Christ, who is the heir to all things, and fulfillment of all things to whom we belong, whether we are on earth in this tent or clothed in our heavenly dwelling.

It does not matter what I post,

It does, I have enjoyed some of your posts. with the exception of the little jabs: "twisting scripture" and "hopeless belief"

you have been persuaded otherwise so it is futile to try to prove to you otherwise.

Objective, evidenced based arguments will always get my attention and lead me to evaluate my beliefs. but without providing evidence, don't expect to persuade anyone.

Like I said, we will see how your belief works out for you.

We are one in Christ, regardless of end times beliefs. Brothers and sisters may squabble, but in the end those squabbles won't matter. For God will be all in all.

I believe I will see my Lord Jesus face to face.

I believe you will as well, and so will all of us in the body of christ.

 

[seventysevens]

Why is the fig tree generation a 2000 plus year one:
Matthew 24:33
So also, when YOU (disciples) see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates.

Hopefully you can see this can help - but only if you apply it - In order to understand better you need to try a different approach - This is taken from a true story that made a man famous in the Christian community and the world at large.

An atheist who hated Christianity fell in love and got married , shortly after their marriage his wife became a Christian and he became livid with anger because of it and it nearly destroyed their marriage as they headed for divorce because he could not tolerate his new wife following Jesus . He tried every convincing argument he could come up with why Jesus was a fake and not real and she should stop believing in Jesus , but nothing worked as she still tried to get him to become a Christian .

After failing in every way to convince her Jesus was a fake , he was desperate to convince her to stop being a Christian he made it his goal to do whatever it takes to convince his wife Jesus is a fraud - so he decided to look for the proof and started to study everything he could find about Jesus with the intent on finding something that proves Jesus is a fraud , After spending a couple years doing this - through his own research and studying everything he could find to prove Jesus is a fake and a fraud he came up with evidences and proofs that Jesus is who claims to be and Jesus is real and the true Messiah who rose from the grave. He has written books and produced video documentation proving Jesus is the true Messiah who died and rose again to life and has earned good money from his books and videos and now is dedicated to Jesus ministry around the world .

The point is that in order to get someone to see truths they cannot to see , the person must first set aside what they currently believe and study that which they reject in order to see the truth , for if a person is not willing to approach the topic without their preconceived beliefs they will not see anything except what they currently believe

If you are willing set aside your preterist views and study scripture as if you had no previous study on the topic you will open yourself up to the realm of possibility and see the scripture without the confusion that filtering what you read through a preconceived view causes

As Jesus said if people would come to him like little children , the little children just accepts what he teaches and accepts his teachings without filtering them through a preconceived religious view

 

[dougangel]

Ok thankyou for that. I think there are holes in my logic.about that.

Why is the fig tree generation a 2000 plus year one:
Matthew 24:33
So also, when YOU (disciples) see all these things, you know that he is near, at the very gates.

THis is a better answer.
 Matthew 24 - Understanding Matthew 24

So Jesus came with the angels to repay everyone for their works when he was transfigured?

27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done. 28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Matthew 16:27-28 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 16:27-28 - English Standard Version

http://evidenceforchristianity.org/...esus-did-not-come-back-in-the-first-centuryr/


All this is true, but in the context of Matthew 16:28, Jesus is talking

about the kingdom of God in the sense he most commonly uses it in the

gospels. One aspect of the kingdom of God is the church of Christ. The

church is the kingdom. In fact, Jesus had just finished making that point

in Matthew 16:17-19 where Jesus clearly equates the church with the

Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus appears to use the phrase Kingdom of God and

Kingdom of Heaven virtually interchangeable in the gospels.

So when was the prophecy fulfilled? The answer is that the Kingdom of God

and of the Son Jesus Christ came on the day of Pentecost, 50 days after

the resurrection of Jesus. This fulfilment is found in Acts chapter two.

Many prophecies, both in the Old Testament and the New Testament point to

the coming of the Kingdom in a new and unique way on the Day of Pentecost.

For example, one could look at Isaiah 2:2-4. Daniel 2:44,45, Matthew 3:2,

Luke 24:45-47, Matthew 16:18-20 and Matt 16:28 all point to the events of

the pouring out of the Spirit, the first public gospel sermon and the

first conversions to Christ which all occurred on the Day of Pentecost, as

recorded in Acts chapter two.

Jesus did not visibly, physically come back on the Day of Pentecost, but

he God certainly did come in the person of the Holy Spirit on that day.

There are many passages which express the thought that Jesus comes to us

when we receive the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians

15:24, John 14:15-21 and John 16:7-15 come to mind.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

Also, Putin made the statement that it had unlimited range which is an impossibility since fuel runs out.

It's not impossible. The missile goes into orbit and stays there until it's needed. The United States can do it, too, but it's not as quick as a strike from a nuclear sub.

I've lived my life under the threat of an unstoppable nuclear attack. I can live in fear and not be able to do anything about it, or I can live in peace and still not be able to do anything about it. I might as well live in peace.

 

[AlexDTX]

It's truly more of a curiosity than a sensitivity.. I simply can't fathom how the fantastical idea of the mere potential of some future super-villan-boogyman doing crazy things in some as yet unerected stone temple, to be built possibly some 10-50+ years away could be the inpetus for anyone here today to "be ready every day", which, as you said, was your entiore reason for creating this thread.

No that is not the reason for the thread. And I have stated it several times. You are reading what you want to read into the OP. Those comments are supporting for a biblical base, but my reason for concern is because I am watching what the Trump administration is doing. Currently great good is occurring. Trump's team got North Korea to stop building nukes and for talks of unification between North and South Korea. However, Revelations is clear that a Great Tribulation will still come and I am concerned about the globalist cabal retaliating at his progress as the catalyst for the backlash.

But in reading your comments is sounds like you don't believe in any prophecies and you simply want to hijack this topic for your own rants.

 

[AlexDTX]

Its purpose is to be preached to sinners on earth and call them to salvation.

Any cessation in it perfroming it's sole purpose is unscriptural.

Yes, it is clear that you are universal salvation believer. What is sad is that I have had many discussions with US believers who were courteous and respectful. You are a blight and blemish to that doctrine for you only want to argue your doctrine. Yet you don't come out honestly and state what your position is. I disagreed with that doctrine, but now I am finding it vile because of you.

 

[claninja]

Hopefully you can see this can help - but only if you apply it - In order to understand better you need to try a different approach - This is taken from a true story that made a man famous in the Christian community and the world at large.

An atheist who hated Christianity fell in love and got married , shortly after their marriage his wife became a Christian and he became livid with anger because of it and it nearly destroyed their marriage as they headed for divorce because he could not tolerate his new wife following Jesus . He tried every convincing argument he could come up with why Jesus was a fake and not real and she should stop believing in Jesus , but nothing worked as she still tried to get him to become a Christian .

After failing in every way to convince her Jesus was a fake , he was desperate to convince her to stop being a Christian he made it his goal to do whatever it takes to convince his wife Jesus is a fraud - so he decided to look for the proof and started to study everything he could find about Jesus with the intent on finding something that proves Jesus is a fraud , After spending a couple years doing this - through his own research and studying everything he could find to prove Jesus is a fake and a fraud he came up with evidences and proofs that Jesus is who claims to be and Jesus is real and the true Messiah who rose from the grave. He has written books and produced video documentation proving Jesus is the true Messiah who died and rose again to life and has earned good money from his books and videos and now is dedicated to Jesus ministry around the world .

Thank you for the story. It sounds like lee strobel. I enjoyed his book, the case for Christ.

The point is that in order to get someone to see truths they cannot to see , the person must first set aside what they currently believe and study that which they reject in order to see the truth , for if a person is not willing to approach the topic without their preconceived beliefs they will not see anything except what they currently believe

There is one truth: Christ. He is the way, the truth, and the life. He is the resurrection.
When he died, conquered death, and ascended to the right hand of the Father, he was seated far above all names, power, and dominion in this age and the next. He is the king of kings and lord of lords. He is the current ruler of the kings of the earth with all authority over heaven and earth.

Scripture is very clear about this.

Christ is very clear, if we cannot understand earthly pictures of heavenly realities, will not understand the kingdom of heaven.

If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how can you believe if I tell you heavenly things?
John 3:12 - Bible Gateway passage: John 3:12 - English Standard Version

So just as you have asked me to put aside my preconceived notions, I ask you to do the same. For once I leaned toward Dispensationalism, but now it is impossible for me to.

As Jesus said if people would come to him like little children , the little children just accepts what he teaches and accepts his teachings without filtering them through a preconceived religious view

I agree. My preconceived view used to lean toward pre mil. Until I realized the old covenant was a picture of Christ, the messiah, the king, the bread of life, the once for all sacrifice, the resurrection, the sabbath rest, the true promise land. Christ is heir to all things, in whom all the promises of God are yes.

 

[AlexDTX]

It's not impossible. The missile goes into orbit and stays there until it's needed. The United States can do it, too, but it's not as quick as a strike from a nuclear sub.

I've lived my life under the threat of an unstoppable nuclear attack. I can live in fear and not be able to do anything about it, or I can live in peace and still not be able to do anything about it. I might as well live in peace.

Well said, and I agree with you. Actually, it starting to look like Putin did not make his announcement with the USA in mind, but North Korea. That might have been the teeth that persuaded Kim Jong Un to stop his nuclear arms development and to consider to talks with South Korea for unification.

 

[claninja]

THis is a better answer.
Matthew 24 - Understanding Matthew 24

This is a much better argument than the “generation” being a future one.

However, the split at vs 35 is just another attempt to explain why Jesus didn’t come when he said he would: during the disciples lifetime.

How many times did Jesus say he would come during the lifetime of the disciples in the gospels? Several times? Why did the disciples believe they were living in the last days? Because Jesus told them so.

We may not know the month, day or hour, but we do know that the Lord comes at the destruction of the original tenants (unfaithful old covenant Israel):


Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming.
Matthew 24:42 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 24:42 - English Standard Version

When therefore the owner of the vineyard comes, what will he do to those tenants?” They said to him, “He will put those wretches to a miserable death and let out the vineyard to other tenants who will give him the fruits in their seasons.” 43 Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits. When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard his parables, they perceived that he was speaking about them.
Matthew 21:40-41,43,45 - Bible Gateway passage: Matthew 21:40-41, Matthew 21:43, Matthew 21:45 - English Standard Version

The context of the olivet discourse is the destruction of unfaithful old covenant Israel:

Matthew 21: parable of wicked tenants
Matthew 22: parable of marriage feast
Matthew 23: woes to the Pharisees and the coming destruction
Matthew 24: destruction of temple. And what would lead up to it.

I suggest looking up all times the Lord came in the OT.

http://evidenceforchristianity.org/...esus-did-not-come-back-in-the-first-centuryr/


All this is true, but in the context of Matthew 16:28, Jesus is talking

about the kingdom of God in the sense he most commonly uses it in the

gospels. One aspect of the kingdom of God is the church of Christ. The

church is the kingdom. In fact, Jesus had just finished making that point

in Matthew 16:17-19 where Jesus clearly equates the church with the

Kingdom of Heaven. Jesus appears to use the phrase Kingdom of God and

Kingdom of Heaven virtually interchangeable in the gospels.

So when was the prophecy fulfilled? The answer is that the Kingdom of God

and of the Son Jesus Christ came on the day of Pentecost, 50 days after

the resurrection of Jesus. This fulfilment is found in Acts chapter two.

Many prophecies, both in the Old Testament and the New Testament point to

the coming of the Kingdom in a new and unique way on the Day of Pentecost.

For example, one could look at Isaiah 2:2-4. Daniel 2:44,45, Matthew 3:2,

Luke 24:45-47, Matthew 16:18-20 and Matt 16:28 all point to the events of

the pouring out of the Spirit, the first public gospel sermon and the

first conversions to Christ which all occurred on the Day of Pentecost, as

recorded in Acts chapter two.

Jesus did not visibly, physically come back on the Day of Pentecost, but

he God certainly did come in the person of the Holy Spirit on that day.

There are many passages which express the thought that Jesus comes to us

when we receive the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit. 1 Corinthians

15:24, John 14:15-21 and Joh

Thank you for providing this. And, while I agree with just about all of it. It doesn’t answer the question, did Jesus come in his kingdom during the lifetime of the disciples?

To which i would respond, yes he did. Jesus fulfilled Daniel 7:13-14 at his ascension to the right hand of the Father.

And when he came to the Father, he entered glory and sat down at his right hand, eventually bringing judgement upon unfaithful old covenant Israel, which he foretold would happen in the olivet discourse.

 

[FreeinChrist]

MOD HAT

This thread is closed at OP request.