As believers we have duty to contend for the faith

[Saint Steven]

Those who could not hear are not required to believe they would be judged by their conscience they know what is right and wrong on some things and can guess the full way but they don’t know it all without revelation

So, you believe that whether someone knows Christ or not, it is a judgement of works?

 

[mikeforjesus]

Yes they don’t have to be perfect.
They do not know the gospel through no fault of their own but they have to seek to do what is right even if they are not perfect and have some sins but they do good.

 

[Saint Steven]

Yes

What is the value then of believing in Jesus and following His teachings?
Wouldn't we be more likely to found guilty than those who never knew Jesus?
Does God grade on a curve, or PASS/FAIL? What would a passing grade be?

 

[mikeforjesus]

Because we are required to as we have heard. They would be open to the gospel if it was preached but it was never preached.

 

[Saint Steven]

Because we are required to as we have heard. They would be open to the gospel if it was preached but it was never preached.

Where is the value in that requirement? What's the point? Seems like an unnecessary, and even dangerous, step. (what if you fail to follow ALL the teachings?)

 

[mikeforjesus]

They need to follow according to their knowledge we can not judge God who judges differently than us He gives each a measure of knowledge but some not all the knowledge and Paul says He will judge everyone properly all the secret things of men according to His gospel. He is involved in everything even in their life

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

They need to follow according to their knowledge we can not judge God who judges differently than us He gives each a measure of knowledge but some not all the knowledge and Paul says He will judge everyone properly all the secret things of men according to His gospel. He is involved in everything even in their life

Yes and Paul makes that point clear in Romans 1

 

[Studyman]

I think the real problem is taking the position that anyone who doesn't agree with your particular man-made doctrinal opinion is "creeping in" with "destructive heresies" and "blaspheming the truth". i think that does more damage than letting everyone have their own opinion without being labeled as a "blaspheming heretic".

It seems as if the Pharisees, the Mainstream Preachers of Jesus' time, also considered Jesus a heretic for "creeping in" with "destructive heresies" and "blaspheming the truth". And they certainly accused Paul of the same thing.

And what was Paul's reply?

Acts 24:13 Neither can they prove the things whereof they now accuse me.

14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they (Mainstream Preachers of Paul's time) call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

15 And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Notice that according to Paul, even after at least 14 years from the Resurrection of Jesus, there has not yet been a resurrection of the Just, or the unjust.

If we all go to the same source that we know we can trust, the Holy scriptures, and ignore the other religious voices of the land, would we not all become less divided?

Great post.

 

[Studyman]

Well, that's not what it says. You are projecting a meaning on the scripture that is not there. Verse 18 says that Jesus' "... one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people." And in verse 19 "the many" (all) that were "made sinners" through "the disobedience of the one man" (Adam) were the same "the many" that "will be made righteous" through "the obedience of the one man". (Christ)

Saint Steven said: ↑
What about the Apostle Paul? He wrote this

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Yes, I have always been astounded by the religious belief that Jesus obeyed so I don't have to.

It seems the scriptures teach that Jesus became the unblemished Lamb of God to wipe my sinful past clean, giving me a New Heart and a new beginning. One in which I submit to HIM, and not to my own religious or non religious beliefs.

The idea that Jesus obeyed the speed limit and drove 55 so that I can drive as fast as I want doesn't align with the Scriptures, and yet, this is the implication of "many" teachers who come in HIS Name.

Certainly a good discussion for men to have in these evil times.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Yes, I have always been astounded by the religious belief that Jesus obeyed so I don't have to.

It seems the scriptures teach that Jesus became the unblemished Lamb of God to wipe my sinful past clean, giving me a New Heart and a new beginning. One in which I submit to HIM, and not to my own religious or non religious beliefs.

The idea that Jesus obeyed the speed limit and drove 55 so that I can drive as fast as I want doesn't align with the Scriptures, and yet, this is the implication of "many" teachers who come in HIS Name.

Certainly a good discussion for men to have in these evil times.

I always say no fruit , no root.

A good trees always bears good fruit.

 

[Saint Steven]

They need to follow according to their knowledge we can not judge God who judges differently than us He gives each a measure of knowledge but some not all the knowledge and Paul says He will judge everyone properly all the secret things of men according to His gospel. He is involved in everything even in their life

Do you believe that anyone can be saved before the final judgment then?

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Do you believe that anyone can be saved before the final judgment then?

if you are born again you are saved now and for all eternity- hence one has ETERNAL LIFE not temporary or conditional life as some falsely believe.

 

[mikeforjesus]

Do you believe that anyone can be saved before the final judgment then?

No it depends on one decision now God knows how to judge each case fairly and their abilities but some things are not fair now such as abortions they may get their chance after death they will not inherit the kingdom straight away but they may be in a place to be given a chance later and we don’t know if they will inherit the kingdom but they may have a special place for them they might inherit the kingdom though we don’t know I think it is possible. Even if one has a mental handicap or Alzheimer’s God knows their heart and whether they want the truth first and will respond to good. Only when a person knows the truth and willfully rejects it is he judged. I don’t know if it is fair if a non Christian dies in an act of terrorism because of his belief only God knows if He will give him a chance afterwards but God knows their heart if they purposely rejected Him and they are not sorry. Perhaps they did not reject Him but we’re struggling and could have changed their mind later but not now maybe God will give them a chance later without such memories but we don’t know maybe it depends on their heart which God knows if they were open to considering it but they don’t know now
so they may be given a further chance after death but we don’t know as God may know their heart if they rejected Him on purpose and if they are repentant of that or not really desirous to follow the truth

 

[Saint Steven]

No it depends on one decision now God knows how to judge each case fairly and their abilities but some things are not fair now such as abortions they may get their chance after death they will not inherit the kingdom straight away but they may be in a place to be given a chance later and we don’t know if they will inherit the kingdom but they may have a special place for them they might inherit the kingdom though we don’t know I think it is possible. Even if one has a mental handicap or Alzheimer’s God knows their heart and whether they want the truth first and will respond to good. Only when a person knows the truth and willfully rejects it is he judged. I don’t know if it is fair if a non Christian dies in an act of terrorism because of his belief only God knows if He will give him a chance afterwards but God knows their heart if they purposely rejected Him and they are not sorry. Perhaps they did not reject Him but we’re struggling and could have changed their mind later but not now maybe God will give them a chance later without such memories but we don’t know maybe it depends on their heart which God knows if they were open to considering it but they don’t know now
so they may be given a further chance after death but we don’t know as God may know their heart if they rejected Him on purpose and if they are repentant of that or not really desirous to follow the truth

What faith are you contending for exactly?
You don't believe that we can be saved now, only after a judgment of works.
There are many scriptures that assure us that we can be saved now.
Should we not be contending for that faith? Example: Ephesians 2:8-9 (note "saved" = past tense) The gift of God, not of works.

Saint Steven said: ↑
Do you believe that anyone can be saved before the final judgment then?

 

[mikeforjesus]

I’m not sure but maybe one is saved now if he has repented of all known sins if he was to die now as long as he is trying to deal with all sins if one can not do better and maybe God will accept because maybe it is not within one ability to do better one can not find but if he can he must but if one lives longer maybe God does not think one is ready and he requires one to do better. Maybe God always accept if one is doing his best but he should do better to be more fruitful for the kingdom. One must repent of all things within one ability

 

[Saint Steven]

I’m not sure but maybe one is saved now if he has repented of all known sins if he was to die now as long as he is trying to deal with all sins if one can not do better and maybe God will accept because maybe it is not within one ability to do better one can not find but if he can he must but if one lives longer maybe God does not think one is ready and he requires one to do better. Maybe God always accept if one is doing his best but he should do better to be more fruitful for the kingdom. One must repent of all things within one ability

How is any of that measured?
Could you have done better? (sure) Did you do well enough? (who knows?) On a scale of 1 to 10 how likely is God to let you into heaven? Does the Bible tell us what a passing score is? Why did Jesus die if we are expected to earn our own salvation?

 

[mikeforjesus]

We are justified by faith and following all we know of right and wrong God will justify us perhaps if we are always seeking to do the will of God like the wise virgins searching for as much as can be found to do it. They worried they do not have enough oil that is because God knows they are not seeking as much within their ability. So Jesus said strive to enter by the narrow gate. One is not justified for being lazy because he can not be sure he has enough oil though he may already be living in Christ as much as required but he can not be sure he should focus on being better and we don’t know if God will require one to be able to be able to prove to others the meaning of scripture that one could misinterpret to believe something false rather than just preach what they think is probably true because of many other verses and only those with such knowledge if they exist should explain such but one should seek such knowledge if it exists to save others

 

[Saint Steven]

We are justified by faith and following all we know of right and wrong God will justify us perhaps if we are always seeking to do the will of God like the wise virgins searching for as much as can be found to do it. They worried they do not have enough oil that is because God knows they are not seeking as much within their ability. So Jesus said strive to enter by the narrow gate. One is not justified for being lazy because he can not be sure he has enough oil though he may already be living in Christ as much as required but he can not be sure he should focus on being better and we don’t know if God will require one to be able to be able to prove to others the meaning of scripture that one could misinterpret to believe something false rather than just preach what they think is probably true because of many other verses and only those with such knowledge if they exist should explain such but one should seek such knowledge if it exists to save others

What does it mean to you to be be justified by faith?
Is faith something you do, rather than something you have? I gave an example: Ephesians 2:8-9 Saved by faith, the gift of God, not of works. Here's another example.

Romans 4:4-5
Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5 However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness.

 

[Jesus is YHWH]

Scripture says the following regarding salvation. There is a past aspect, a present aspect and a future aspect to our salvation.

Past
Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Present
1 Corinthians 1:18
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Future
Romans 5:9
having now been justified by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him.

hope this helps!!!

 

[mikeforjesus]

It is one choice if they want to be deceived and live in sin. My dad told me Jesus wants everyone to choose Him because they love what Jesus teaches. People will be judged for whether they really love what he teaches so they are judged by their heart choice. Also it is not just those who say they are followers of the Lord but we have to really forgive and be selfless and want to practice love at all times and really love from the heart. It takes a choice to really follow Jesus because you choose a God who teaches to love and follow the light. We are to preach to help people but people are responsible for themselves