Arnold Murray's Teaching

[POSTIOS]

See Post No. 183. It is not reasonable for God to ask people to count 665 unidentified events in time. Though the text is 666, the context informs the true student that it is not to be interpreted literally. God is using it to separate the true student from the fake ones.

oh...lol. You are the most accusatory SC student ever...even against your own....amazing.

See Zadok7000's position. Because he takes 666 literally, he has to concoct some warped theory as to what is to be counted.

it is not theory that the actual number in the manuscripts is actually 666. YOUR theory changes it to 6,6,6.

All Zadok gave was possibilities/places to look for pertinant info in the OT.
And, as you did to me, you chstize that kind of thinking.
You are the most bullheaded of SC students.

i cant believe that the proper line of reasoning, 666 found else where in scripture, is not compelling to any SC student.

increadible.

However, as can plainly be seen, his theory is nonsensical, unreasonable, and can never fit the context of Rev. 13, which is the arrival of the beast [Satan].

where do you find the criteria for "his arrival" as being the proper "counting" of 666?

IOW, it is all your theory, and you have not proven anything yet.
maybe you will some time....but so far, nope.

and Zadok is right in that the first vial shows the timing of its pouring, to be post Satan defacto.


so you fail on a few levels.
Basically, your errant view of Satan arriving at the 6th vial (or is it the 5th), has you negating facts about the 1st vial, which very clearly shows post Satan defacto.



if you cannot make out the when of vial 1 (which you have not), how can you make out the timing for vial 6?





again, I (and Zadok) have heard it all before...
prove it, dont just say it...otherwise you fall into the crowd....
just saying a thing is easy....prove it.

as PM was errrant in his 1981 calculation, you had to prove it or disprove it, and you came up with a possible correction.

have you not considered the fact that he just might be wrong about this one too?
You do all of us Students a discredit with your negative attitude and your lack of scholastic ability at least on this subject.

 

[Douggg]

It is not theory. You just wish to label it as such in order to support your unbiblical belief that the mark of the beast is a literal/physical mark.

See, you don't copy and paste a scripture to backup your belief. That's why it is a theory. Do you have a link to an Arnold Murray video in which he explains his belief that there will be a one world currency?

Folks have the mark of the beast prior to the first vial of God's wrath. See Rev. 16:1-2. Satan's one world order does not come into existence until vials 5 and 6. So, it is impossible for the mark to be literal/physical.

So? I am not arguing with what the bible states in Revelation 16:1-2.

I do argue with your interpretation that the kingdom of the Beast does come into existence until vials 5 and 6.

A person will not have any of the one-world [Devil's] currency unless one swears allegiance onto the beast. A person that does not swear allegiance cannot buy or sell simply because he/she will not have any money.

Again, in Revelation where does it talk about a one-world currency in the text?

 

[Watchman_2]

it is not theory that the actual number in the manuscripts is actually 666. YOUR theory changes it to 6,6,6.

6,6,6 is the proper contextual interpretation. However, if you don't believe it, then list the 665 events that I need to count prior to Satan's appearance.

So, why don't you demonstrate some sincerity for a change. Either admit your error or post the 665 events.

 

[Watchman_2]

See, you don't copy and paste a scripture to backup your belief. That's why it is a theory. Do you have a link to an Arnold Murray video in which he explains his belief that there will be a one world currency?

It is a sign of a weak Bible student to have to post links or videos. That's why you spent so much time at carm.

So? I am not arguing with what the bible states in Revelation 16:1-2.

Good. Then, you should now know that the mark of the beast is not a literal/physical mark.

I do argue with your interpretation that the kingdom of the Beast does come into existence until vials 5 and 6.

That would be because you are unlearned in Bible.

Again, in Revelation where does it talk about a one-world currency in the text?

The future one-world order is addressed in Rev. 13 and 17. As I pointed out previously, the one world currency is not addressed in the Book of Revelation. So, why do you keep asking the same question [again] that had already been answered??

 

[Manasseh_]

If that were true, then the Bible would state so.

it is true, and the bible does state it as so.........in fact throughout it's pages it consistently states that God has given men commandments to live their lives by and that men have consistently broken those commandments leading them to SIN against their creator............

it's not going to be something completely different in the final days from what the whole of scripture has always taught.............taking the mark of the beast............worshiping the beast, directly breaking God's commandments and not some kind of implant or some form of currency that people will use

you should have already understood this to be true............but then again to quote a poster in this forum......................

No -- I have not. It is just that you lack education in Bible. Your own Bible illiteracy is that which is confusing you.

 

[POSTIOS]

6,6,6 is the proper contextual interpretation. However, if you don't believe it, then list the 665 events that I need to count prior to Satan's appearance.

why? who says those two are the only choices? you?

So, why don't you demonstrate some sincerity for a change. Either admit your error or post the 665 events.

lol, see above.

sincerity does not equate to believing your interp.

i'm still waiting for your admission of your own contradiction, shown in post 109.

 

[Watchman_2]

it is true, and the bible does state it as so.........in fact throughout it's pages it consistently states that God has given men commandments to live their lives by and that men have consistently broken those commandments leading them to SIN against their creator............

it's not going to be something completely different in the final days from what the whole of scripture has always taught.............taking the mark of the beast............worshiping the beast, directly breaking God's commandments and not some kind of implant or some form of currency that people will use

you should have already understood this to be true............but then again to quote a poster in this forum......................

The current issues being discussed are the mark of the beast and 666. Surely, the mark of the beast can be construed to be violative of the first commandment. However, I do not see any direct correlation to the other nine commandments.

One can glean understanding from Eze. 13, Isa. 28, and 2 Thes. 2 as to what constitutes the mark of the beast. In the latter cited scripture, the violation is so grievious that God will aid those violators in their delusion so that they will be damned.

I agree that the mark is not literal/physical. It is a belief that would lead one to worship Satan and/or actually being deceived by Satan.

 

[Watchman_2]

why? who says those two are the only choices? you?

Well, you can present whatever you think that I ought to be counting -- it matters not an iota to me.

 

[zeke37]

i like this handle better than POSTIOS, so i'll use it again.


your opinion matters not to me in this case, as you are being dishonest with us,
as seen in post 109...and your refusal to speak of it.

the first vial shows the proof of it's timing....and it is post Satan defacto. not pre.

that means that your interp of 666 is incorrect.

count away.

 

[NightHawkeye]

i like this handle better than POSTIOS, so i'll use it again.

LOL

Welcome back, Zeke.



Personally I kinda liked Postitos, although I forget who to attribute that variant to.

.

 

[Watchman_2]

i like this handle better than POSTIOS, so i'll use it again.

the first vial shows the proof of it's timing....and it is post Satan defacto. not pre.

that means that your interp of 666 is incorrect.

count away.

Whatever handle you choose to use still leaves you in the same unbiblical position. The purpose of Satan's tribulation is to test Christians and seal their fate relative to the first resurrection; and, for many, it will send them to the Lake of Fire.

The first four vials are intended to get those [rapturists] who have taken the mark of the beast to repent. They are dispensed upon christians. This has to occur prior to Satan's appearance. Once Satan is here, their worship of him seals their fate.

The fact that God seeks repentance by dispensing the first 4 vials is the sure sign that Satan is not on the scene.

You still haven't presented the 665 things I should be counting. Changing handles won't alleviate you of your burden of proof.

I think that most Christians would conclude that it is unreasonable for God to ask us to count 665 unidentified things [whatever nonsensical thing you come up with]. But, instead of acknowledging your gross error, you stick to your silly position.

 

[Manasseh_]

The current issues being discussed are the mark of the beast and 666. Surely, the mark of the beast can be construed to be violative of the first commandment. However, I do not see any direct correlation to the other nine commandments.

then you truly are guilty of the same thing you accuse others of being, ie , bible illiterate...........God's commandments are interwoven, you break in one point you've broken all..........Christ summed up his Father's commandments as the first 4 are love to God and the last 6 are love and concern for fellow man.............so those that will break the 4th commandment (sabbath) day to keep a job in order to be able to buy and sell also deem the first as God is not the only God to be obeyed and worshiped, the 2nd worshiping idols ties directly to disobedience to the first and even the 3rd, blaspheming God and his name, ..........remember Christ said the love of many will grow cold in those days, they will betray one another...........this breaks the commandment do not bear false witness..............now they are breaking the othe six commandments also

One can glean understanding from Eze. 13, Isa. 28, and 2 Thes. 2 as to what constitutes the mark of the beast. In the latter cited scripture, the violation is so grievious that God will aid those violators in their delusion so that they will be damned.

these verses give us complete understanding of the mark, the hand and forehead

Exo 13:16 And it shall be for a token upon thine hand, and for frontlets between thine eyes: for by strength of hand the LORD brought us forth out of Egypt
Deu 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
Deu 11:18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.

all tokens as reminders to do by action (the hand) and think by thought (the forehead) of God's commandments given..........it will be the same in the end when the wicked go against God's commandments........the mark will be by what action people choose to take because their thoughts are not to do God's commandments but only to save their temporary lives they will concede to worship the beast (an idol)

Paul's 2nd letter to the believers at Thessalonica in a number of phrases show direct disobedience to God's commandments which in turn also show it has little or nothing to do with implants and a "world order currency"

an apostasy occurs......................falling away
this sets the stage for the man of sin to be revealed
they didn't seek or love the truth in the first place, they preferred sin instead of obedience to God, because men always has a choice God allows them their delusion / deception, He has never forced anyone to worship him

all those things Paul teaches in this part of the letter is the breaking God's commandments in the final days

I agree that the mark is not literal/physical. It is a belief that would lead one to worship Satan and/or actually being deceived by Satan.

but it is literal and physical, it's just not in the literal or physical forms of either implants that some choose or which kind of currency method used to buy and sell goods and services.
It's still physical and literal because it deals with a person's actions, what they end up doing in the case of those who choose to worship the beast they both physically and literally worship what is not supposed to be worshiped and at the same time by their actions they break God's commandments and sin against him

receiving the mark, worshiping the beast, worshiping the image of the beast taking the number of his name all have to do directly with breaking God's commandments............His commandments seal his servants , who they are and what they do, and satan seals his servants in his way of deceiving them to break God's commandments and perform his own command, to worship the beast................

decrees will be made, laws will be passed to work on sabbath day, if you refuse to break God's commandments of sabbath and worshiping idols then satan will directly mark you for death, but the saints will possess the same testimony and faith Christ had in his Father

the mark of the beast is in direct violation of God's commandments

 

[Watchman_2]

then you truly are guilty of the same thing you accuse others of being, ie , bible illiterate...........God's commandments are interwoven, you break in one point you've broken all..........Christ summed up his Father's commandments as the first 4 are love to God and the last 6 are love and concern for fellow man.............so those that will break the 4th commandment (sabbath) day to keep a job in order to be able to buy and sell also deem the first as God is not the only God to be obeyed and worshiped, the 2nd worshiping idols ties directly to disobedience to the first and even the 3rd, blaspheming God and his name, ..........remember Christ said the love of many will grow cold in those days, they will betray one another...........this breaks the commandment do not bear false witness..............now they are breaking the othe six commandments also

You are entitled to be wrong and to live in ignorance. If you read what I wrote, I said "direct correlation". You just spouted off a bunch of 'indirect correlations'.

these verses give us complete understanding of the mark, the hand and forehead

Exo 13:16 And it shall be for a token upon thine hand, and for frontlets between thine eyes: for by strength of hand the LORD brought us forth out of Egypt
Deu 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
Deu 11:18 Therefore shall ye lay up these my words in your heart and in your soul, and bind them for a sign upon your hand, that they may be as frontlets between your eyes.

all tokens as reminders to do by action (the hand) and think by thought (the forehead) of God's commandments given..........it will be the same in the end when the wicked go against God's commandments........the mark will be by what action people choose to take because their thoughts are not to do God's commandments but only to save their temporary lives they will concede to worship the beast (an idol)

Paul's 2nd letter to the believers at Thessalonica in a number of phrases show direct disobedience to God's commandments which in turn also show it has little or nothing to do with implants and a "world order currency"

an apostasy occurs......................falling away
this sets the stage for the man of sin to be revealed
they didn't seek or love the truth in the first place, they preferred sin instead of obedience to God, because men always has a choice God allows them their delusion / deception, He has never forced anyone to worship him

all those things Paul teaches in this part of the letter is the breaking God's commandments in the final days

The mark of the beast is not literal/physical because it can be taken at anytime. See Eze. 13, Isa. 28, and 2 Thes. 2. The book of Revelation also verifies that it is not literal/physical. See Rev. 16:1-2. The mark exists prior to the first vial of God's wrath. Satan is not on the scene, defacto, until the 6th vial.

Doing the work that supports Satan's efforts does not mean that the mark, itself, is physical/literal.

but it is literal and physical, it's just not in the literal or physical forms of either implants that some choose or which kind of currency method used to buy and sell goods and services.

It's still physical and literal because it deals with a person's actions, what they end up doing in the case of those who choose to worship the beast they both physically and literally worship what is not supposed to be worshiped and at the same time by their actions they break God's commandments and sin against him

receiving the mark, worshiping the beast, worshiping the image of the beast taking the number of his name all have to do directly with breaking God's commandments............His commandments seal his servants , who they are and what they do, and satan seals his servants in his way of deceiving them to break God's commandments and perform his own command, to worship the beast................

decrees will be made, laws will be passed to work on sabbath day, if you refuse to break God's commandments of sabbath and worshiping idols then satan will directly mark you for death, but the saints will possess the same testimony and faith Christ had in his Father

the mark of the beast is in direct violation of God's commandments

You are wrong!

 

[Manasseh_]

You are entitled to be wrong and to live in ignorance. If you read what I wrote, I said "direct correlation". You just spouted off a bunch of 'indirect correlations'.

The mark of the beast is not literal/physical because it can be taken at anytime. See Eze. 13, Isa. 28, and 2 Thes. 2. The book of Revelation also verifies that it is not literal/physical. See Rev. 16:1-2. The mark exists prior to the first vial of God's wrath. Satan is not on the scene, defacto, until the 6th vial.

Doing the work that supports Satan's efforts does not mean that the mark, itself, is physical/literal.



You are wrong!

so then, just exactly how is God justified in casting those wicked who chose to worship the beast into the lake of fire............if it has nothing to do with all of his commandments either in part or in full ??

also how is he justified in destroying the beast, the false prophet and babylon the harlot , again if has no direct tie to the breaking of his commandments ?

 

[Watchman_2]

so then, just exactly how is God justified in casting those wicked who chose to worship the beast into the lake of fire............if it has nothing to do with all of his commandments either in part or in full ??

also how is he justified in destroying the beast, the false prophet and babylon the harlot , again if has no direct tie to the breaking of his commandments ?

I have already acknowledged that it is the first, and most important, commandment that is being violated. In accepting a belief that would lead to the worship of Satan, those violators, since the time when God gave the commandments, took the mark of the beast. Even without worshipping Satan, those unknowing violators pay a price by missing the first resurrection.

Of course, Paul lays it out concisely in 2 Thes. 2. Those, who are wrong in their belief regarding the timing of Christ's return, are given the spirit of delusion, if taught the truth and thereafter rejected it, so that they might be damned and perish. A belief that Christ comes first to redeem them is one form of the mark of the beast. One does not see this punishment for the civil commandments [last 5].

God is furthermore justified in sending those that knowingly [by rejecting truth] take the mark of the beast into the Lake of Fire as this age is purposed to test them [2 Pet. 3:7]. They followed Satan already in the previous age [Rev. 12:4]. If they do it again in this age, it is over for them.

Satan has already been sentenced to perish in the first age [Eze. 28]. The only way that he hopes to save himself is by deceiving more in this age than who rebelled with him in the first age.

Antichrist, false prophet, etc. are simply roles that Satan plays -- not separate entities. Those roles tossed in the Lake of Fire at the commencement of the millennial reign of Christ will [logically] not be available to Satan when he is cut loose again to deceive the nations prior to the white throne judgement.

 

[Manasseh_]

I have already acknowledged that it is the first, and most important, commandment that is being violated. In accepting a belief that would lead to the worship of Satan, those violators, since the time when God gave the commandments, took the mark of the beast. Even without worshipping Satan, those unknowing violators pay a price by missing the first resurrection.

Of course, Paul lays it out concisely in 2 Thes. 2. Those, who are wrong in their belief regarding the timing of Christ's return, are given the spirit of delusion, if taught the truth and thereafter rejected it, so that they might be damned and perish. A belief that Christ comes first to redeem them is one form of the mark of the beast. One does not see this punishment for the civil commandments [last 5].

God is furthermore justified in sending those that knowingly [by rejecting truth] take the mark of the beast into the Lake of Fire as this age is purposed to test them [2 Pet. 3:7]. They followed Satan already in the previous age [Rev. 12:4]. If they do it again in this age, it is over for them.

Satan has already been sentenced to perish in the first age [Eze. 28]. The only way that he hopes to save himself is by deceiving more in this age than who rebelled with him in the first age.

Antichrist, false prophet, etc. are simply roles that Satan plays -- not separate entities. Those roles tossed in the Lake of Fire at the commencement of the millennial reign of Christ will [logically] not be available to Satan when he is cut loose again to deceive the nations prior to the white throne judgement.

you simply can't make an explanation of God's justification of passing judgment on these wicked without including the fact that they break his commandments, all of his commandments, not just the 1st............and a number of those commandments being broken are mentioned right here in Revelation

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

more commandments broken

Rev 16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

these verses show that those who worship the beast and the woman babylon are found guilty of murder, that breaks the 6th commandment, you shall not murder

Rev 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

this plague poured directly on the "seat of the beast" the "headquarters" of the beast and what does the beast do............blasphemes God in heaven, that breaks the 3rd commandment

there are obviously quite a number of scripture that deal with the end and how people will live their own ways breaking God's commandments but the one that sticks out the most is deception of all kinds.............deceiving and being deceived.....which goes directly to reasons why they will take the mark of the beast ..........and deception is lying and telling lies and those that believe in lies.........all of them guilty of breaking the 9th commandment , not bearing false witness

the whole point in short is it's not just the first commandment that's broken , eventually it's all 10...........and not only broken but they are unrepentant about what they have chosen to do

once again taking the mark, the number of his name, worshiping the beast, worshiping it's image all goes to breaking all of God's commandments and he is justified because they refuse to repent of their wicked deeds and sins against God

your comments about satan playing different roles as antichrist makes no sense whatsoever.............antichrist is the beast, false prophet and babylon the harlot...........the beast is a world ruling empire, the false prophet is a man, an individual not spirit being (fallen angel disguised as a man) and babylon is the apostate church, all of which are made up of many people.........satan isn't playing the part of everyone, he is playing his role as the one who deceives all these people.............all these people are "entities" ie, individuals

 

[Watchman_2]

you simply can't make an explanation of God's justification of passing judgment on these wicked without including the fact that they break his commandments, all of his commandments, not just the 1st............and a number of those commandments being broken are mentioned right here in Revelation

I don't know how you got that idea. I have explained it well. See previous post.

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their theft

more commandments broken

You are confusing God's overall judgment with the judgment on those who take the mark of the beast. God gives the spirit of delusion only for the specific purpose that I previously identified.

God does not give the spirit of delusion onto violators of all commandments.

Rev 16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
Rev 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

these verses show that those who worship the beast and the woman babylon are found guilty of murder, that breaks the 6th commandment, you shall not murder

As usual, you are mistaken in your understanding of scripture. Those scriptures take place in the future; yet, saints and prophets were murdered long ago. Hence, those scriptures are not speaking directly of violators of the 6th commandment.

Rev 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,

Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

this plague poured directly on the "seat of the beast" the "headquarters" of the beast and what does the beast do............blasphemes God in heaven, that breaks the 3rd commandment

The 'seat of the beast' is his power/authority which is the one-world order, aided by those that have taken the mark of the beast.

This does nothing to further your argument.

there are obviously quite a number of scripture that deal with the end and how people will live their own ways breaking God's commandments but the one that sticks out the most is deception of all kinds.............deceiving and being deceived.....which goes directly to reasons why they will take the mark of the beast ..........and deception is lying and telling lies and those that believe in lies.........all of them guilty of breaking the 9th commandment , not bearing false witness

Well, the ones doing the deception and lying are Satan and his angels. Those humans who knowingly conspire are the Kenites.

the whole point in short is it's not just the first commandment that's broken , eventually it's all 10...........and not only broken but they are unrepentant about what they have chosen to do

There is no evidence of that in scripture.

once again taking the mark, the number of his name, worshiping the beast, worshiping it's image all goes to breaking all of God's commandments and he is justified because they refuse to repent of their wicked deeds and sins against God

You can say it 'once again' or as many times as you like; however, you will always be wrong!

your comments about satan playing different roles as antichrist makes no sense whatsoever.............antichrist is the beast, false prophet and babylon the harlot...........the beast is a world ruling empire, the false prophet is a man, an individual not spirit being (fallen angel disguised as a man) and babylon is the apostate church, all of which are made up of many people.........satan isn't playing the part of everyone, he is playing his role as the one who deceives all these people.............all these people are "entities" ie, individuals

 

[zeke37]

Whatever handle you choose to use still leaves you in the same unbiblical position. The purpose of Satan's tribulation is to test Christians and seal their fate relative to the first resurrection; and, for many, it will send them to the Lake of Fire.

The first four vials are intended to get those [rapturists] who have taken the mark of the beast to repent. They are dispensed upon christians. This has to occur prior to Satan's appearance. Once Satan is here, their worship of him seals their fate.

not prior, but during....
they have to do the deed...actually worship him and take the mark that he deals out.
therein lies your error.

PM teaches that the 144000 are marked first, through the trib, and then come out of Babylon ...not marked before.

The fact that God seeks repentance by dispensing the first 4 vials is the sure sign that Satan is not on the scene.

not...

there is nothing that says the first 4 vials cannot be poured out when he is here defacto.
even if for repentance purposes.
infact, that is what the verse implies. Rev16:2.... worship of the beast and have his mark.

You still haven't presented the 665 things I should be counting. Changing handles won't alleviate you of your burden of proof.

huh. I dont have to list any events....lol.
that is YOUR premise, not mine.
YOU list them.

how many times must I repeat this...lol.
YOU brought up a limit of only 2 possibilities for 666.
I do not share your limitation.
so asking me to present 665 event is nonsense, since I think that whole premise is nonsense.

understand.

I`d rather go to the OT and look for mentionings of 666, but of course somehow you think that is poor scholarship.

I think that most Christians would conclude that it is unreasonable for God to ask us to count 665 unidentified things [whatever nonsensical thing you come up with].

lol, YOU came up with it, and lying about it or implying that I came up with it, is a sin and wont change the facts. repent.

But, instead of acknowledging your gross error, you stick to your silly position.

so, according to you, searching the scriptures for relevant 666 usages, is silly....and a bad way to formulate a position.

dont you see how wrong you are.

 

[Watchman_2]

not prior, but during....
they have to do the deed...actually worship him and take the mark that he deals out.
therein lies your error.

PM teaches that the 144000 are marked first, through the trib, and then come out of Babylon ...not marked before.


not...

there is nothing that says the first 4 vials cannot be poured out when he is here defacto.
even if for repentance purposes.
infact, that is what the verse implies. Rev16:2.... worship of the beast and have his mark.


huh. I dont have to list any events....lol.
that is YOUR premise, not mine.
YOU list them.

how many times must I repeat this...lol.
YOU brought up a limit of only 2 possibilities for 666.
I do not share your limitation.
so asking me to present 665 event is nonsense, since I think that whole premise is nonsense.

understand.

I`d rather go to the OT and look for mentionings of 666, but of course somehow you think that is poor scholarship.


lol, YOU came up with it, and lying about it or implying that I came up with it, is a sin and wont change the facts. repent.


so, according to you, searching the scriptures for relevant 666 usages, is silly....and a bad way to formulate a position.

dont you see how wrong you are.

See Rev. 13:18. Satan arrives on the scene at the 6th vial.

 

[zeke37]

nothing in Rev13:18 to prove that notion.