Arnold Murray's Teaching

[zeke37]

she's the anti-zeke!

 

[Kingdom_Come]

huh? I made no such claim...post my quote if there is one. there is not.
I say the number is indeed 666...unlike you who change it to mean 6,6,6.

The problem is Watchman_2 creates an artificial choice by limiting everyone to his understanding of the number 666. It’s like bringing you to a car lot where they offer only black or white cars and telling you that this is the only choice you have, never mind that across the street is another car lot selling them in yellow, blue, green and many other colors. I persist in trying to force you to choose between black and white as if the other colors simply do not exist.

The choice between accepting 666 as referring to the sixth trumpet, sixth seal and sixth vial or else it must be referring to six hundred and sixty six different prophecies about Satan is an artificial choice. Scripture nowhere limits us to this understanding. Most importantly, the passage itself does not imply either of these conclusions. It rather implies the number of the name of the beast. Many Biblical students have at least some knowledge about Greek numbers and letters. So what John is leading us to here is not necessarily as obscure as either of these interpretations would make it. The concept of branding or marking is also something with a bit of a historical background. If we start there, we may avoid ending with many of the conclusions floating around out there.

 

[zeke37]

I guess that my point is, most all the symbology found in Rev is either outright explained for us in Rev itself, or is found in the OT prophets.

since we have other examples of 666 in the bible, I say we explore them.

I hold Arnold Murray in the absolute best, highest human biblical teaching catagory that there is....but no man knows it all...

now, watchman2 claims that the 6th seal`s part of 666, is the 1st seal written, which is by his interp, and mine, the 6th one chronologically.

but i have never heard Arnold Murray teach this as part of the 666.
that is what I was originally questioning...but it led to what it led to!

cheers!

 

[Kingdom_Come]

first off, there is no gross error here on our part.
second, it is your preimse to possibly count 665 prior events, not ours.
We realize the word COUNT is there.
and still, we think you are in error.

how are you going to plant seeds with your arrogance and negative posting demeanor.

you do PM and yourself a discredit by your attitude.
folks have based an opinion of his teachings, on your responses...
and as i have very easily seen myself, folks will not want to even converse with you for learning purposes because of the WAY you post.

how long have you been at this online, yet you fail to see this.

learn how to teach.

your limitation is having but 2 choices.
I do not share that limitation.

I didn’t read the whole exchange as I have already posted much on this thread as well. But it sounded as if we both agree that Watchman_2 presents his own understanding of that passage of Revelation as if his conclusions (sixth seal, trumpet and vial or six hundred and sixty six different prophecies) are the only options one has to choose from when “interpreting” it. I got that impression from the post above. I suppose I should have quoted it.

Of course like you I don’t agree with the false choice between only those two interpretations as the most obvious interpretation is the one given to us in the passage itself. Anyway, I thought I was reinforcing your point that the “choice” he gives one between those two view points does not cover all possibilities for understanding that passage. Therefore it is possible to reject both of those options and still come to a plausible understanding of what is being said in that passage.

 

[hagiazo7]

Replying to post #1 by Truth_Files.

Ive never heard him say that we are "gods". He may have referred to Elohim being God and His children but he didn't say "God and His gods". I think you are taking what he is saying out of context.

I have heard him speak of Psalms 82:6, "I have said, Ye are gods." as Ye are God's property. Meaning you belong to God. As it is written: Ezekiel 1:4, "Behold, all souls are Mine."

We did exist with God before this flesh earth age. Have you ever read the book of Jeremiah 1:5? Before Jeremiah was even born God already knew who Jeremiah was. Before Jeremiah was birthed from the womb God said, "I sanctified the, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nation." This is before Jeremiah even walked the earth, he didn't have the chance yet to do good works or evil works but God sanctified and ordained him way before birth.

And Jacob and Esau. They were not born yet when God said "Jacob have I loved but Esau have I hated." Romans 9:13, Malachi 1:3. If God already knew all souls before He placed them in the womb then souls exisited prior to this flesh earth age.

Furthermore, have you ever read the book of Ephesians? 1:4 says that "...He hath chosen us in Him BEFORE the foundation of the world." Before this flesh world began, even YOU were chosen by God to serve Him through Jesus Christ.

Modalism????
The Trinity is God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit they're all the same: One God. Have you ever read John 1:1? The Word was with God and the Word was God. 1:14, "And the Word was made flesh." 1 Timothy 3:16, ".....God was manifest in the flesh." That is the Trinity, all three of them are One God.

Here is another: John 14:8,9,10. Philip asks Jesus "Show us the Father." In verse 9. "Have "I" been so long time with you and yet hast thou not known "Me" Philip?"

You said: "Additionally, God is not a man " God became a man, 1 Timothy 3:16. God is omnipresent. He can be in Heaven and on the earth.

Speaking of Jesus, did not God say to call His name Immanuel? What does Immanuel mean? GOD WITH US.

 

[Satt]

Replying to post #1 by Truth_Files.

Ive never heard him say that we are "gods". He may have referred to Elohim being God and His children but he didn't say "God and His gods". I think you are taking what he is saying out of context.

I have heard him speak of Psalms 82:6, "I have said, Ye are gods." as Ye are God's property. Meaning you belong to God. As it is written: Ezekiel 1:4, "Behold, all souls are Mine."

We did exist with God before this flesh earth age. Have you ever read the book of Jeremiah 1:5? Before Jeremiah was even born God already knew who Jeremiah was. Before Jeremiah was birthed from the womb God said, "I sanctified the, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nation." This is before Jeremiah even walked the earth, he didn't have the chance yet to do good works or evil works but God sanctified and ordained him way before birth.

And Jacob and Esau. They were not born yet when God said "Jacob have I loved but Esau have I hated." Romans 9:13, Malachi 1:3. If God already knew all souls before He placed them in the womb then souls exisited prior to this flesh earth age.

Furthermore, have you ever read the book of Ephesians? 1:4 says that "...He hath chosen us in Him BEFORE the foundation of the world." Before this flesh world began, even YOU were chosen by God to serve Him through Jesus Christ.

Modalism????
The Trinity is God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit they're all the same: One God. Have you ever read John 1:1? The Word was with God and the Word was God. 1:14, "And the Word was made flesh." 1 Timothy 3:16, ".....God was manifest in the flesh." That is the Trinity, all three of them are One God.

Here is another: John 14:8,9,10. Philip asks Jesus "Show us the Father." In verse 9. "Have "I" been so long time with you and yet hast thou not known "Me" Philip?"

You said: "Additionally, God is not a man " God became a man, 1 Timothy 3:16. God is omnipresent. He can be in Heaven and on the earth.

Speaking of Jesus, did not God say to call His name Immanuel? What does Immanuel mean? GOD WITH US.

Good post!

 

[lilmissmontana]

Replying to post #1 by Truth_Files.

Ive never heard him say that we are "gods". He may have referred to Elohim being God and His children but he didn't say "God and His gods". I think you are taking what he is saying out of context.

I have heard him speak of Psalms 82:6, "I have said, Ye are gods." as Ye are God's property. Meaning you belong to God. As it is written: Ezekiel 1:4, "Behold, all souls are Mine."

We did exist with God before this flesh earth age. Have you ever read the book of Jeremiah 1:5? Before Jeremiah was even born God already knew who Jeremiah was. Before Jeremiah was birthed from the womb God said, "I sanctified the, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nation." This is before Jeremiah even walked the earth, he didn't have the chance yet to do good works or evil works but God sanctified and ordained him way before birth.

And Jacob and Esau. They were not born yet when God said "Jacob have I loved but Esau have I hated." Romans 9:13, Malachi 1:3. If God already knew all souls before He placed them in the womb then souls exisited prior to this flesh earth age.

Furthermore, have you ever read the book of Ephesians? 1:4 says that "...He hath chosen us in Him BEFORE the foundation of the world." Before this flesh world began, even YOU were chosen by God to serve Him through Jesus Christ.

Modalism????
The Trinity is God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit they're all the same: One God. Have you ever read John 1:1? The Word was with God and the Word was God. 1:14, "And the Word was made flesh." 1 Timothy 3:16, ".....God was manifest in the flesh." That is the Trinity, all three of them are One God.

Here is another: John 14:8,9,10. Philip asks Jesus "Show us the Father." In verse 9. "Have "I" been so long time with you and yet hast thou not known "Me" Philip?"

You said: "Additionally, God is not a man " God became a man, 1 Timothy 3:16. God is omnipresent. He can be in Heaven and on the earth.

Speaking of Jesus, did not God say to call His name Immanuel? What does Immanuel mean? GOD WITH US.

you speak Truth
may the Lord bless you on the Way, my friend
the beaten path ... closed eyes and ears ...
and the beat goes on ...
lilmiss

 

[krenae]

THANK YOU, zeke37!

and? was he not the first murdered?

some do label him that way, unwarrented, as you are now!


there are different races..deal with it...
no one is better than another...
and Murray would be the first to tell you that...



of course


actually the bible states that you will encounter troubles if you mix race...
and the bible is pretty clear about the Israelites staying/marrying within their own race....

the problem was that the other races did not believe in God...
and the spouse might lead them to worship other gods as with Solomon

today, that is not an issue, as Christianity is in basically every country/race.

but the world will still give you grief.




He has sons for that, and he is not racist. deal with it.

he's a vet...and fought for your right to worship God as you see fit

what do you think he thinks?

you are so ignorant...shame on you

the Hebrew disagrees with you, as one ha a preposition and one does not...
one is general and one is specific...

ignorance.

adam in Gen1 is general...mankind...no preposition.
the adam in Gen2 is specific and has a preposition..and individual.

mankind was created in Gen1, on the 6th day.
Adam who is in the garden of Eden, is formed after the 7th day of rest...call it the 8th day if ya wanna.


more ignorance. the orders are different...Gen2 is not a retelling of Gen1



more ignorance, and i see you now speak for MOST ALL reputable scholars now!
lol


maybe to you. but that proves your lack of biblical intelligence...
for OT prophesy adequately proves that you are incorrect...
prophesy using both Israel and Judah is even available in the exact same chapter of the Bible



have you heard of Glastonbury?
While you might not believe him, E Raymond Capt proves you incorrect.


not all the 10 tribes...but a sparse few individuals.
the vast majority did not return...
their descendants live on today.

Israel was first, through Judah and the sparse few of the other tribes that returned after the captivity

IOW, anyone that professed YHVH...

not to the gentiles...yet.


as for both Jesus and Paul being Jews,
Jesus was half Judahian and half a Levite,
living under Jewery

Paul was a Benjaminite, living under Jewery

but still, the vastest amount of the descendants of the scattered tribes still exist and became someone...

i agree with BI that states they settled europe and eventually the America's.



racial distinction must matter, because God is going to keep ALL His promises, even to the race of Israel (us Christians scattered abroad)

no one is saying that today's races are not equal.

your opinion. The Bible calls them children of the devil.

maybe both. seems funny that Jesus went into detail about Satan and Cain, if He was not being literal.

agreed...Jesus was specifically speaking to these "scribes".
they are elsewhere called vagabond jews.


personally I agree..but he might have incited Cain to murder,
as it was in his heart, that of his father the devil's will...



i disagree...but like all physical beginnings, there are spiritual lessons,
which IMO this is one.

while I believe there are literal descendants of the devil
i also know that there are spiritual descendants as well.



agreed, except for the kenites...our physical beginning to this spiritual end.

and Mr Murray believes this to be true.

sure they are.

well, that is the definition of the word...i posted it above already.
take a look.

says who? not the bible!

how many are named Cain in the Bible? 1?




you can believe what you want to I guess...
since only one Cain is Biblical, I'll stick with that truth...
and Jesus' words in John 8 only strengthen that position



sometimes a person is called a nationality, when he is not...but only lives there

it happens quite often in the Bible.


if a member of one of the northern tribes came back to the promised land, after the captivity was over,
since only Judah existed, as the northern kingdom was dispersed....
then that person would take on the name Jew, even though they were not really a Jew by birth

so there is example of a person being called a kenite, when we can prove their lineage and that they were just living where the kenites lived...
as with Moses' father in law

anyway...so far, you and your sources are incredibly wrong...

 

[Interplanner]

Christ didn't need to know when the end was and we don't need to know when the rapture is.

--Inter