Arminianism is untenable

[Hammster]

Christ died for all men. The day of atonement saved nobody.

Did the atonement cover the Babylonians? Yes or no.

 

[Hammster]

Already answered.

You've responded, but you've not answered. The Arminian position really can't answer this without exposing a serious flaw.

 

[janxharris]

Did the atonement cover the Babylonians? Yes or no.

The day of atonement didn't.

 

[Hammster]

The day of atonement didn't.

Thanks. Why didn't it?

 

[bling]

Thanks. Why didn't it?

The Jewish atonement system given by God was for the Jews only. It really only was for unintentional sins that were atoned for and did nothing but remind people of all their intentional sins they did in the past. These sacrifices like all the Jewish sacrifices prior to Christ were just shadows of the reality, specifically in this case when Jesus would come and be tortured, humiliated and murdered for everyone and because of everyone’s sins.

 

[janxharris]

The Jewish atonement system given by God was for the Jews only. It really only was for unintentional sins that were atoned for and did nothing but remind people of all their intentional sins they did in the past. These sacrifices like all the Jewish sacrifices prior to Christ were just shadows of the reality, specifically in this case when Jesus would come and be tortured, humiliated and murdered for everyone and because of everyone’s sins.

Hebrews 9:7
But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance.

 

[Hammster]

13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh,
14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

If Christ's atonement was for all, all would have purified consciences.

 

[janxharris]

13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the sprinkling of defiled persons with the ashes of a heifer, sanctify for the purification of the flesh,
14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without blemish to God, purify our conscience from dead works to serve the living God.

If Christ's atonement was for all, all would have purified consciences.

Lev. 16:15
“He shall then slaughter the goat for the sin offering for the people and take its blood behind the curtain and do with it as he did with the bull’s blood: He shall sprinkle it on the atonement cover and in front of it.

Lev. 23:29-30
Those who do not deny themselves on that day must be cut off from their people. I will destroy from among their people anyone who does any work on that day.

'People' = 'elect' because...?

 

[Hammster]

Lev. 16:15
“He shall then slaughter the goat for the sin offering for the people and take its blood behind the curtain and do with it as he did with the bull’s blood: He shall sprinkle it on the atonement cover and in front of it.

Lev. 23:29-30
Those who do not deny themselves on that day must be cut off from their people. I will destroy from among their people anyone who does any work on that day.

'People' = 'elect' because...?

If Christ's atonement is for all, all would have purified consciences. Even those in Lev 23.

 

[janxharris]

If Christ's atonement is for all, all would have purified consciences. Even those in Lev 23.

So 'people' = 'elect'? Wherefore?

 

[janxharris]

.

 

[Hammster]

So 'people' = 'elect'? Wherefore?

God's people are always elect. You don't believe that?

 

[Hammster]

The day of atonement didn't.

Thanks. Why didn't it?

 

[janxharris]

God's people are always elect. You don't believe that?

One would assume that 'the people' was all the Israelites. The only reason not to would be to uphold a theology that would be untenable without doing so.

 

[janxharris]

Thanks. Why didn't it?

Heb 10:4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

 

[Hammster]

One would assume that 'the people' was all the Israelites. The only reason not to would be to uphold a theology that would be untenable without doing so.

The good thing about progressive revelation is that you learn more as you go. So when you get to Lev 23, you see that it's not all of Israel.

 

[Hammster]

Heb 10:4 It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.

I didn't ask that. Do you think anyone was covered?

 

[janxharris]

I didn't ask that. Do you think anyone was covered?

?

 

[janxharris]

The good thing about progressive revelation is that you learn more as you go. So when you get to Lev 23, you see that it's not all of Israel.

Your definition does not survive John 3:14-18.

 

[Hammster]

Your definition does not survive John 3:14-18.

Since the reference isn't about the atonement, it's not relevant to this discussion.