Argument for God's existence.

[createdtoworship]

So where was God before there was anywhere to exist?

God does not need empty space to exist. God would be subservient to that empty space if that was the case.

 

[gaara4158]

I said there were dimensions outside the universe, in parallel universes. So your comment that there are no dimensions outside the universe in this comment Argument for God's existence.
is actually wrong. After I refuted it by mentioning parallel universes you changed the bars here: Argument for God's existence. and said the result is the same, which it's not:

Nope. I was defending Tinker Grey’s post Argument for God's existence., which originally stated “There are no dimensions outside the universe/multiverse,” which you asked him to prove and I did, logically.

 

[gaara4158]

God does not need empty space to exist. God would be subservient to that empty space if that was the case.

Did I say anything about empty space? I asked “where.” You’re saying it wasn’t empty space. Ok, so then where was it?

 

[InterestedAtheist]

He doesn’t make a complete argument for the supernatural in there. Doesn’t even define it. Basically his reasoning goes “Ghosts are supernatural, ghosts are scary, only things people believe in can scare them, therefore ghosts are believable, therefore ghosts exist, therefore the supernatural exists.”

Why am I not surprised. Thanks very much!

Logic dictates that someone or something made the universe, it's obvious. The only other option is it made itself from nothing. Which you agree. God does answer the question, because He is omnipresent by definition. The fact that there is a universe, proves it is here by some force. The only force more intelligent than humans is God. The only being that is able to make a multiverse cross infinity to get to the present time, is God or somethign close to it. It's not special pleading. It is the only possible viable solution. Your solution is that nothing made everything, which is incoherent. So my argument stands. There is something called prima facie evidence. It is legal evidence that is verified (although not proven), unless refuted. So far you have not proven it wrong. Only mathmatics is provable, nearly all other science is un proven. So to provide prima facie evidence for origins is the closest we can come, without having all knowledge, and in that case we would Be God.

I'm afraid you don't understand this at all. You might benefit from a little research. You realise, we didn't all just hear about this from you today. People have been pointing out the problems.with the Kalaam Cosmological argument for centuries. Try this, for example.
Unmoved Mover - Daylight Atheism
No, I don't know why the Universe came into being. Yes, I would very much like to know. No, you can't just invent an answer without evidence. And no, your nursery philosophy is neither evidence nor proof.
If you want to know who created the universe, it was Horace. He's a wizard. He used his magic to travel back in time, and then used a spell to make the universe.
What do you mean, nonsense? It's magic. Magic can do whatever it wants, because it's magical.
Oh, you want proof that magic exists? I thought you believed in the supernatural.

 

[createdtoworship]

Nope. I was defending Tinker Grey’s post, which originally stated “There are no dimensions outside the universe/multiverse,” which you asked him to prove and I did, logically.

sorry my links did not work:

What? No. If in fact a multiverse exists, there are dimensions within those other universes and perhaps the “meta” space of the multiverse. But there are still no dimensions outside the multiverse.


Now, are you ever going to answer my questions?

I said there were dimensions outside the universe, in parallel universes. So your comment that there are no dimensions outside the universe in this comment Argument for God's existence.

is actually wrong. After I refuted it by mentioning parallel universes you changed the bars here: Argument for God's existence. and said the result is the same, which it's not:

 

[createdtoworship]

Did I say anything about empty space? I asked “where.” You’re saying it wasn’t empty space. Ok, so then where was it?

are you really asking me where God is? Seriously? He can exist anywhere in the known universe or multiverse, or outside of the multiverse. He can actually move around you know.

 

[createdtoworship]

What? No. If in fact a multiverse exists, there are dimensions within those other universes and perhaps the “meta” space of the multiverse. But there are still no dimensions outside the multiverse.

Now, are you ever going to answer my questions?

I would like you to admit that you moved the goalposts, then we can move on.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

I just read a book today, showing dozens of scientists and atheists that converted to christianity, so this statement is false.

Oooh! How exciting! Being scientists, no doubt they supplied the evidence which led them to conclude that God exists? Yes?
Actually, no. Yes, atheists do sometimes become Christians. It's for the same reason every time. It's because they felt an emotional need to.

 

[InterestedAtheist]

are you really asking me where God is? Seriously? He can exist anywhere in the known universe or multiverse, or outside of the multiverse. He can actually move around you know.

Yes. He's magical, doncherknow.

 

[gaara4158]

are you really asking me where God is? Seriously? He can exist anywhere in the known universe or multiverse, or outside of the multiverse. He can actually move around you know.

There is no such thing as “outside the multiverse” as I just demonstrated. If there is no time or place to exist in, existence is not possible, because existence is temporal and time is intertwined with space. So to exist outside of time and space is to not exist at all. You’re arguing that God does not exist.

 

[gaara4158]

I would like you to admit that you moved the goalposts, then we can move on.

The goalposts were always where they are now, as you can see in the post that started this line of discussion. Argument for God's existence.

Be very careful about accusing me of things like this. You’ve been warned many times that I will not tolerate it.

 

[Tinker Grey]

I love how theists will assert that they know what an unknowable (when it's convenient) God can do.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

I love how theists will assert that they know what an unknowable (when it's convenient) God can do.

I am always amused by Yahweh's convenient, and conditional, unknowability. Only when the time comes for scrutiny does he disappear into the esoteric spiritual realm.

It's like the world's crappiest magic trick.

 

[createdtoworship]

Oooh! How exciting! Being scientists, no doubt they supplied the evidence which led them to conclude that God exists? Yes?
Actually, no. Yes, atheists do sometimes become Christians. It's for the same reason every time. It's because they felt an emotional need to.

at least you admit, it's not an intellectual problem people had with God but an emotional one. I agree.

 

[createdtoworship]

The goalposts were always where they are now, as you can see in the post that started this line of discussion. Argument for God's existence.

Be very careful about accusing me of things like this. You’ve been warned many times that I will not tolerate it.

yes you moved the goal posts. Your comments, not tinkers. It was your comments that shifted the goal posts, his were fine.

 

[createdtoworship]

duplicate

 

[createdtoworship]

Yes. He's magical, doncherknow.

There is no such thing as “outside the multiverse” as I just demonstrated. If there is no time or place to exist in, existence is not possible, because existence is temporal and time is intertwined with space. So to exist outside of time and space is to not exist at all. You’re arguing that God does not exist.

I love how theists will assert that they know what an unknowable (when it's convenient) God can do.

I am always amused by Yahweh's convenient, and conditional, unknowability. Only when the time comes for scrutiny does he disappear into the esoteric spiritual realm.

It's like the world's crappiest magic trick.

thank you for the comments and supporting this thread, I appreciate it. But we are dealing with this:

When it comes to the origin of life there are only two possibilities: creation or spontaneous generation. There is no third way. Spontaneous generation was disproved one hundred years ago, but that leads us to only one other conclusion, that of supernatural creation.

 

[Eight Foot Manchild]

When it comes to the origin of life there are only two possibilities: creation or spontaneous generation. There is no third way. Spontaneous generation was disproved one hundred years ago, but that leads us to only one other conclusion, that of supernatural creation.

"Fully formed biological organisms popping into existence was disproven over a hundred years ago, so that leads us to only one other conclusion - fully formed biological organisms magically popping into existence."

If you are convinced by that line of reasoning, you are welcome to it.

 

[Tinker Grey]

When it comes to the origin of life there are only two possibilities: creation or spontaneous generation.

And the other options I provided.

 

[gaara4158]

yes you moved the goal posts. Your comments, not tinkers. It was your comments that shifted the goal posts, his were fine.

By omitting the word multiverse from some of my replies? I’ll admit that happened, but that was to keep my sentences less clunky. I even added the fact that the proof still stands if a multiverse exists. Strike 2.