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Argument for God's existence.

Discussion in 'Christian Apologetics' started by createdtoworship, Apr 4, 2019.

  1. gaara4158

    gaara4158 Yeah, good. Ok.

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    So where was God before there was anywhere to exist?
     
  2. InterestedAtheist

    InterestedAtheist Veteran

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    In other words, you have defined God in such a way as to solve your problem. This is known as the "Special Pleading Fallacy".
     
  3. InterestedAtheist

    InterestedAtheist Veteran

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    More threads than I'd like to get involved in, thank you. Please either summarise or link to the posts in why by you made the argument.
     
  4. createdtoworship

    createdtoworship In the grip of grace

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    so then I am waiting for your proof that there is no dimension outside of the universe. You post no links, you just assume it's the definition. What about parallel universes, they don't have dimensions? I await your response. I will answer your questions after you answer mine.
     
  5. createdtoworship

    createdtoworship In the grip of grace

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    Please explain your case. Because when I accuse someone of fallacy, I go ahead and explain why. In this case I would be interested in your reasoning. I presume you can't answer the OP and are searching for fallacy, where there is none. To escape from the conversation.
     
  6. createdtoworship

    createdtoworship In the grip of grace

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    if you want an answer...I would be happy to reply there. For redundancy sake, I won't post it here.
     
  7. ToddNotTodd

    ToddNotTodd Iconoclast

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    I’ve never understood why some apologists think that arguments involving defining a god into existence are supposed to be convincing. Are they deluded to the inherent nonsense, or do they think they can put one over on people?
     
  8. InterestedAtheist

    InterestedAtheist Veteran

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    I think the conversation is starting to near the end of its useful lifespan now, because your mistakes have been pointed it several times. In short, we don't know where the Universe came from, and if you say you do, and the answer is God, you must provide evidence for it. Saying "God could do it, because God has supernatural powers/is outside of time" is special pleading because you have not presented evidence that God exists.
    If you have such evidence, that would of course be an entirely different matter. Do you?
     
  9. InterestedAtheist

    InterestedAtheist Veteran

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    I think it's because they don't believe them themselves. Certainly, nobody ever became a Christian because of them. They became Christians because they were brought up to be, and/or because of emotional manipulation. The purpose of apologetic arguments is to reassure themselves; and, being convinced of the conclusion already, they miss all the logical flaws, since the logic isn't the main point for them.
     
  10. Moral Orel

    Moral Orel Proud Citizen of Moralton Supporter

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    The multiverse is eternal. Problem solved.
     
  11. cvanwey

    cvanwey Well-Known Member

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    So it sounds as though you agree with science, when it agrees with you. How about when science doesn't?

    Maybe you should reach out to Alan Guth and Sean Carroll for a discussion, since you appear into 'name dropping' for effect ;)
     
  12. gaara4158

    gaara4158 Yeah, good. Ok.

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    The proof is the definition of universe and dimension. If the universe is all of space and time, and dimensions are measurements of space, then all dimensions exist inside the universe by definition. I can’t make it any simpler than that.

    If there are parallel universes, then just change “universe” to “multiverse” and the proof stands.

    Now answer my questions: where was God when there was nowhere to be? Why couldn’t the universe also have been there at some point?
     
  13. gaara4158

    gaara4158 Yeah, good. Ok.

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    He doesn’t make a complete argument for the supernatural in there. Doesn’t even define it. Basically his reasoning goes “Ghosts are supernatural, ghosts are scary, only things people believe in can scare them, therefore ghosts are believable, therefore ghosts exist, therefore the supernatural exists.”
     
  14. createdtoworship

    createdtoworship In the grip of grace

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    Logic dictates that someone or something made the universe, it's obvious. The only other option is it made itself from nothing. Which you agree. God does answer the question, because He is omnipresent by definition. The fact that there is a universe, proves it is here by some force. The only force more intelligent than humans is God. The only being that is able to make a multiverse cross infinity to get to the present time, is God or somethign close to it. It's not special pleading. It is the only possible viable solution. Your solution is that nothing made everything, which is incoherent. So my argument stands. There is something called prima facie evidence. It is legal evidence that is verified (although not proven), unless refuted. So far you have not proven it wrong. Only mathmatics is provable, nearly all other science is un proven. So to provide prima facie evidence for origins is the closest we can come, without having all knowledge, and in that case we would Be God.
     
  15. createdtoworship

    createdtoworship In the grip of grace

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    I just read a book today, showing dozens of scientists and atheists that converted to christianity, so this statement is false.
     
  16. createdtoworship

    createdtoworship In the grip of grace

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    I quoted a famous atheist and quoted it in context. You have provided no links etc. So your comment is unverifiable.
     
  17. createdtoworship

    createdtoworship In the grip of grace

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    so then the universe is not the only place that dimensions exist. So my point stands. Thanks for confirming. (parallel universes have dimensions)
     
  18. createdtoworship

    createdtoworship In the grip of grace

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    I noted that you took exception with me posting off topic there, but yet you do it here? Yes, btw all responses were refuted in that thread successfully. I provided peer review proving the majority of test groups experienced the supernatural. As well as my own eye witness testimony from friends etc. As well as pointing out that horror movies capitalize on realistic cases of supernatural events, which if impossible or unrealistic, would not make money for them. So I won't be replying to that topic anymore here, as I have successfully proved it there.

    The Moral Argument (revamped)
     
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  19. gaara4158

    gaara4158 Yeah, good. Ok.

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    What? No. If in fact a multiverse exists, there are dimensions within those other universes and perhaps the “meta” space of the multiverse. But there are still no dimensions outside the multiverse.

    Now, are you ever going to answer my questions?
     
  20. createdtoworship

    createdtoworship In the grip of grace

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    duplicate
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2019
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